Strategy Sindel ~ General Strategies/INFO/Questions

[Husteen]

okay, here's what i've got for 44 followups. it's a lot to explain so i tried to make it short and coherent. whatchu think?

"44
One of Sindel’s best strings. 4 has decent range, only 14 frame startup, +0 on block, hits mid except on certain low hitbox characters like mileena, and has quite a bit of followups. Followups have potential to go according to plan or be unwise depending on the player you’re up against. These are only guaranteed if your opponent reacts wrong.

*NOTE* After Sindel’s D4 hits a standing opponent, 44 cannot be interrupted with any attack in the game, unless it has armor, or jumped out of. This gives reason for Sindel to abuse D4 into 44. If opponent starts blocking the poke, use D4>step up or grab to punish.

1) 44, (U3) fireball (hair whip) - this is the safest/standard choice. should be your first followup so the opponent will expect fireballs after 44 and remain blocking to make your other followups more effective. If 44, AND fireball gets blocked, you can try to yell at an opponent trying to get close or hair whip if they try to attack. U3 can also be added after a LANDED 44 and might fool opponents who don’t know and they'll continue blocking.

Sindel’s opponent basically has three options after a blocked 44. Obviously, a new opponent will most likely attack/jump in the beginning so you can put these in order yourself. Their actions and your followups are:


OPPONENT JUMPS
44, fireball - if they block the fireball , too, then try yell/hair whip
44>B2, 4, far fireball
44>U4
OPPONENT ATTACKS
44>D1, step up - D1 will most likely poke them out of their next attack and step up/hair whip will connect if they're not blocking but not combo.
44>D1, hair whip
44>BLOCK - remember, 44 is completely safe. You don’t always have to followup.
OPPONENT BLOCKS
44>grab
44>D1, grab - to fakeout using a step up/hair whip
LANDING 44
44 (B1, 2, dash) 1, yell - if you ever land 44, this is your best combo starter.

The D1s in these followups can be replaced with D4s for extra advantage at the cost of slower startup. D1=5 frames D4=12 frames but D4 will hit low and duck under high attacks."

 

[CY MasterHavik]

Since you guys say her normals are slow. I shouldn't try to land a big time combo with her?

 

[Delriach]

okay, here's what i've got for 44 followups. it's a lot to explain so i tried to make it short and coherent. whatchu think?

"44
One of Sindel’s best strings. 4 has decent range, only 14 frame startup, +0 on block, hits mid except on certain low hitbox characters like mileena, and has quite a bit of followups. Followups have potential to go according to plan or be unwise depending on the player you’re up against.

*NOTE* After Sindel’s D4 hits a standing opponent, 44 cannot be interrupted with any attack in the game, unless it has armor, or jumped out of. This gives reason for Sindel to abuse D4 into 44. If opponent starts blocking the poke, use D4>step up or grab to punish.

1) 44, (U3) fireball (hair whip) - this should be your first followup so the opponent will expect fireballs after 44 and remain blocking to make your other followups more effective. If 44, AND fireball gets blocked, Sindel is mostly safe to yell at an opponent trying to get close or hair whip if they try to attack. U3 can also be added after a LANDED 44 and might fool opponents who don’t know that and they'll continue blocking.

Sindel’s opponent basically has three options after a blocked 44. Obviously, a new opponent will most likely attack/jump in the beginning so you can put these in order yourself. Their actions and your followups are:


OPPONENT JUMPS
44, fireball - if they block the fireball , too, then try yell/hair whip
44>B2, 4, far fireball
44>U4
OPPONENT ATTACKS
44>D1, step up - D1 will most likely poke them out of their next attack and step up/hair whip will connect if they're not blocking but not combo.
44>D1, hair whip
44>BLOCK - remember, 44 is completely safe. You don’t always have to followup.
OPPONENT BLOCKS
44>grab
44>D1, grab - to fakeout using a step up/hair whip
LANDING 44
44 (B1, 2, dash) 1, yell - if you ever land 44, this is your best combo starter.

The D1s in these followups can be replaced with D4s for extra advantage at the cost of slower startup. D1=5 frames D4=12 frames but D4 will hit low and duck under high attacks."

Edit: Clarified my meaning so you understand what I mean.

Sometimes people can think of mid as medium in regards to low-medium-high. For your 44 thing, I would just say that it can miss ducking opponents with low hit boxes. This avoids any confusion at all. 44 hits high in game and someone might just misread it to think you mean med (overhead). Like I mentioned in my later post below, someone might think you mean something else. I should have been more clear about that.

Your notations are confusing. U3? Do you literally mean Up + 3? OR do you mean df3? Also, how does a "U3" fool an opponent after a landed 44 into blocking? If it landed whatever an "U3" is will hit them since they are in the air. There is no way to block that so they can't be fooled. If you do a 44 and it's blocked the df3 or df1 fireball can sometimes hit them if they don't expect it. It always hits if the opponent didn't block the 44.

I do not at all recommend doing a yell after a 44 unless the opponent is jumping in. It's a 32 frame startup. On block it's full combo punishable. You do not want to just throw this out. It can easily be beat by jump in punches and she's vulnerable if it's whiffed. EX scream would be slightly more useful if you're expecting a jump in but even then you have to really get a good read on your opponent. It's far too dangerous to use normally.

d1 is six frames. A d4 can't just replace a d1 because it has a slower startup so it's not exactly an extra advantage unless it actually lands. It can be beat out before it lands.

I would say 44 1 scream is a better followup since it's easier to land than 44 b12 dash 1 scream. It's very easy to drop that one since the timing needs to be very precise.

 

[BoysBoysBoys]

If the opponent can poke in between 44, doesn't that null everything? Unless you can do 4, the opponent pokes, and a B3F2 catches the poke?

 

[DanCock]

If the opponent can poke in between 44, doesn't that null everything? Unless you can do 4, the opponent pokes, and a B3F2 catches the poke?

thats if the first 4 doesnt hit i believe. or maybe if her foe is duck blocking when hit by the first 4 then the second one can be poked out of.. damn i forget, its been awhile since i was hit out of it..**correct me if im wrong though please**




4,4 fireball blocked then scream will always catch a jumping in foe.. i use it all the time..


4,4 is only safe if its blocked


one thing we should definitely note is that air fireballs can come out of a 44 even if it doesnt hit her foe and the b+2.

 

[Delriach]

thats if the first 4 doesnt hit i believe. or maybe if her foe is duck blocking when hit by the first 4 then the second one can be poked out of.. damn i forget, its been awhile since i was hit out of it..**correct me if im wrong though please**




4,4 fireball blocked then scream will always catch a jumping in foe.. i use it all the time..


4,4 is only safe if its blocked

I wouldn't bank on an opponent jumping in though. And if they have a teleport that can change things too. All they have to do is just slightly time it differently and it'll miss. I wouldn't take the risk. Sometimes people will just stand still and they can do some sort of follow up during the animation at that distance. If they dash in block then you're pretty much screwed too.

 

[BoysBoysBoys]

Instead of 44 iaFireball scream, can't you do aa 1 scream b3f2 etc etc.?

Assuming they jump.

 

[DanCock]

I wouldn't bank on an opponent jumping in though. And if they have a teleport that can change things too. All they have to do is just slightly time it differently and it'll miss. I wouldn't take the risk. Sometimes people will just stand still and they can do some sort of follow up during the animation at that distance. If they dash in block then you're pretty much screwed too.

well i normally do it after i mix in either a step up or low fireball.. after i hit them once with that they tend to try to jump in punch after they block a 44 fireball.

Instead of 44 iaFireball scream, can't you do aa 1 scream b3f2 etc etc.?

Assuming they jump.

yea i guess, but thats not something i can do well. but all you guys could probably do it no problem..

 

[Delriach]

well i normally do it after i mix in either a step up or low fireball.. after i hit them once with that they tend to try to jump in punch after they block a 44 fireball.



yea i guess, but thats not something i can do well. but all you guys could probably do it no problem..

If you can predict a jump in, you can also do a B2 (the shoryuken). If it hits them high into the air you can do a standing 1 into scream.

 

[DanCock]

If you can predict a jump in, you can also do a B2 (the shoryuken). If it hits them high into the air you can do a standing 1 into scream.

oo niceeee i never knew that holy shit. and its safer then a scream on snaps.. new ideas lol

 

[Delriach]

oo niceeee i never knew that holy shit. and its safer then a scream on snaps.. new ideas lol

The problem with the B2 dash 1 scream is that it has to hit the opponent to the highest point in the air or else it'll whiff I believe. With EX scream I'm pretty sure it'll always work as long as you can land the 1 afterward. I need to test it post-patch more. THTB mentioned it to me on twitter the other day.

Edit: It doesn't always have to have a dash. It really depends on how the opponent falls in the air.

 

[Husteen]

*facepalm*
if an attack hits mid that means it will hit a ducking opponent. it stands for middle. overhead is medium. you definitely need to know the mk9 lingo while reading this. we're making a sindel guide not a mk9 beginners guide but it can be changed for better understanding, that's why i uploaded it.

everything in parenthesis are suggestions, you don't have to do them or use these at all but i'm starting to think this stuff is important for high level sindel players or it at least helps.

U3 means Up+3

about 44, U3: "There is no way to block that so they can't be fooled." - exactly!

where did you get this, "I do not at all recommend doing a yell after a 44 unless the opponent is jumping in." when i wrote this,"44, fireball - if they block the fireball , too, then try yell/hair whip" ?

no offense but you told me 44 is NOT safe when it is and i'm growing weary of people not reading my posts when they're right in front of you. i don't know why i'm having success with these 44 followups and you aren't but you don't have to use them ;]

 

[Husteen]

If the opponent can poke in between 44, doesn't that null everything? Unless you can do 4, the opponent pokes, and a B3F2 catches the poke?

i've read that it can be poked out of if the first 4 is blocked. i've also had a cyrax block the first 4 and then he got me with an anti air grab when the second 4 was coming out O.O
i wouldn't consider it something everyone will learn to do, though. it's more like dumb luck on their part.

 

[Delriach]

*facepalm*
if an attack hits mid that means it will hit a ducking opponent. it stands for middle. overhead is medium. you definitely need to know the mk9 lingo while reading this. we're making a sindel guide not a mk9 beginners guide but it can be changed for better understanding, that's why i uploaded it.

everything in parenthesis are suggestions, you don't have to do them or use these at all but i'm starting to think this stuff is important for high level sindel players or it at least helps.

U3 means Up+3

about 44, U3: "There is no way to block that so they can't be fooled." - exactly!

where did you get this, "I do not at all recommend doing a yell after a 44 unless the opponent is jumping in." when i wrote this,"44, fireball - if they block the fireball , too, then try yell/hair whip" ?

no offense but you told me 44 is NOT safe when it is and i'm growing weary of people not reading my posts when they're right in front of you. i don't know why i'm having success with these 44 followups and you aren't but you don't have to use them ;]

>_< I know tons of people that think mid and medium can be used interchangeably. Like I mentioned in my post I knew exactly what you meant. I've seen the term mid used for medium even on guides written on SRK before when referring to low-medium-high mixups.

Until XXZ told us the exact frame data nobody knew if it was completely safe or not. It's 0 on block so it's not completely safe to do a follow up other than a d1 since it's 6 frames. I'm not sure what would happen if the opponent did a d1 at the same time. Not sure who gets beat. I'm just saying the follow ups after a 44 aren't guaranteed to always work as you make it sound. A fast normal can stuff anything other than a d1.

You said

"U3 can also be added after a LANDED 44 and might fool opponents who don’t know that and they'll continue blocking."

ffu3 is nice on hit since it puts the opponent full screen and you can do a fireball right after. The great thing about it is that on block nothing happens since it doesn't come out at all. I just don't get how it'll fool opponents. That's what I don't get. It's not like a fireball that'll sometimes hit an opponent after a blocked 44 since you can always 44 df1/df3 no matter what.

 

[DanCock]

Lol ok now that that's clear. 44up3 will never fool any one because it has to hit.

Husteens words will have to be tweaked but the 44 strategies are solid and are just that strategies nothing more nothing less.




We get so worked up over her lol I love it lol
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[Somberness]

Welllllllllllll, technically d1s are all unsafe, they are just so fast and have very little block stun so that it's hard to punish them. Elbow dash levels of disadvantage on block even, just that the amount of time you have to punish is much lower so it almost never happens.

Sindel's d1 information: -14 on block and 0 on hit. Seems bad but it's ok considering other characters who I have checked.

 

[Husteen]

>_< I know tons of people that think mid and medium can be used interchangeably. Like I mentioned in my post I knew exactly what you meant. I've seen the term mid used for medium even on guides written on SRK before when referring to low-medium-high mixups.

Until XXZ told us the exact frame data nobody knew if it was completely safe or not. It's 0 on block so it's not completely safe to do a follow up other than a d1 since it's 6 frames. I'm not sure what would happen if the opponent did a d1 at the same time. Not sure who gets beat. I'm just saying the follow ups after a 44 aren't guaranteed to always work as you make it sound. A fast normal can stuff anything other than a d1.

You said

"U3 can also be added after a LANDED 44 and might fool opponents who don’t know that and they'll continue blocking."

ffu3 is nice on hit since it puts the opponent full screen and you can do a fireball right after. The great thing about it is that on block nothing happens since it doesn't come out at all. I just don't get how it'll fool opponents. That's what I don't get. It's not like a fireball that'll sometimes hit an opponent after a blocked 44 since you can always 44 df1/df3 no matter what.

yeah. mid is mid and med is med lol
but consider this, the fastest attack in the game is 5 frames. either a generic down poke or kung's spin/reptile's dash and maybe sub zero's xray. so that means even if an attack is -4 on block it's still not punishable so it's safe. if you block after, your opponent will not land an attack on you. i guess what you're trying to say is the attack doesn't have advantage.

i wrote the followups aren't guaranteed but they actually are as long as you do the right one. 44 followups aren't the answer to everything like some characters have.

"U3 can also be added after a LANDED 44 and might fool opponents who don’t know that and they'll continue blocking."
so, in the combo 44, U3, fireball, the U3 will only activate if the 44 lands. someone who doesn't know sindel might be "fooled" because when they block 44 they'll think they have to continue blocking the U3 even though it won't come out. get it?

 

[DanCock]

Blocking after 44 sindel is at 100% disadvantage cause she's slow so she'll then have to deal with frame traps and block stun crap with d1 and jumping away when she can being the only thing she can do guess wrong and the whole match is gone. That's why I get so mad when the fireball doesn't come out after 44, I sometimes commit too late


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[Husteen]

Blocking after 44 sindel is at 100% disadvantage cause she's slow so she'll then have to deal with frame traps and block stun crap with d1 and jumping away when she can being the only thing she can do guess wrong and the whole match is gone. That's why I get so mad when the fireball doesn't come out after 44, I sometimes commit too late


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i'm guessing nrs made her blocked 44 neutral frames so she can block or jump back and fireball but i hate dealing with crossup punches and low pokes after a 44 so i most likely won't do it.
i hate how difficult it is to block confirm 44 so i can use a fireball after. you pretty much have to input the fireball while the first 4 is connecting =/

 

[Magnet]

i think that Husteen is trying to say that if you condition the opponent to think that the entire 4 4 Up3 chain follows after the 44 animation then they will block after a blocked 4 4 since they may be unaware that Up3 cant be added if the 44 is blocked. in other words: whenever you manage to land 4 4 finish it with Up3 fireball. next time the opponent blocks the 44 they MIGHT expect the Up3 even though it doesnt come out if its blocked. so theyll keep blocking...

Husteen i see what you mean. but not everyone who plays offline falls for these kinds of tricks. a good player knows every characters limits and im pretty sure most opponents ive faced know that sindel cant chain Up3 after a blocked 4 4 i'll just stick to 4 4~fireball lol since thats tricky itself

 

[Husteen]

that is what i was saying =]

on the same token, think about her 11,B2,4 fireball. even if blocked, the 4 and fireball will come out so people often get hit by the fireball when they try to uppercut. you just have to make sure to use the close air fireball if it's blocked and far fireball if it landed.

 

[DanCock]

i think that Husteen is trying to say that if you condition the opponent to think that the entire 4 4 Up3 chain follows after the 44 animation then they will block after a blocked 4 4 since they may be unaware that Up3 cant be added if the 44 is blocked. in other words: whenever you manage to land 4 4 finish it with Up3 fireball. next time the opponent blocks the 44 they MIGHT expect the Up3 even though it doesnt come out if its blocked. so theyll keep blocking...

Husteen i see what you mean. but not everyone who plays offline falls for these kinds of tricks. a good player knows every characters limits and im pretty sure most opponents ive faced know that sindel cant chain Up3 after a blocked 4 4 i'll just stick to 4 4~fireball lol since thats tricky itself

But if 44 connects why would you not follow with 1 scream or the b12 1scream combo. Doing 44 up 3 is just dumb it does nothing. If your looking to make your foe think he's blocking 3 attacks you use 44 air fireball. Up3 does nothing unless your looking to knock your foe full screen away. Even then you have better options. Up3 shouldnt be used it's just plan silly there's no strategy with it that is wise


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[Magnet]

But if 44 connects why would you not follow with 1 scream or the b12 1scream combo. Doing 44 up 3 is just dumb it does nothing. If your looking to make your foe think he's blocking 3 attacks you use 44 air fireball. Up3 does nothing unless your looking to knock your foe full screen away. Even then you have better options. Up3 shouldnt be used it's just plan silly there's no strategy with it that is wise


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i agree Dan.

 

[Delriach]

yeah. mid is mid and med is med lol
but consider this, the fastest attack in the game is 5 frames. either a generic down poke or kung's spin/reptile's dash and maybe sub zero's xray. so that means even if an attack is -4 on block it's still not punishable so it's safe. if you block after, your opponent will not land an attack on you. i guess what you're trying to say is the attack doesn't have advantage.

i wrote the followups aren't guaranteed but they actually are as long as you do the right one. 44 followups aren't the answer to everything like some characters have.

"U3 can also be added after a LANDED 44 and might fool opponents who don’t know that and they'll continue blocking."
so, in the combo 44, U3, fireball, the U3 will only activate if the 44 lands. someone who doesn't know sindel might be "fooled" because when they block 44 they'll think they have to continue blocking the U3 even though it won't come out. get it?

Yeah, I clarified what I meant about that. I definitely miswrote the first sentence in that original post but everything after was what I intended to say. I just rather avoid any possible confusion if people were looking at a different source or if they used the terms interchangeably. Just saying that it'll whiff on ducking opponents with low hit boxes unless they are very close is enough.

I'm starting to understand what you mean regarding 44 u3. What you're basically saying is that if you condition the opponent to see 44 u3 fireball on hit, then they'll always think that's the follow up even on block. In that case, they'll keep blocking and you can do some other follow up. Maybe a d4 into another 44 or a grab attempt. 44 fireball does the same thing basically which is why I use it all time. People tend to attack or move and the fireball hits after a block 44. It all makes more sense in context.

Edit:

I see other people already came to that conclusion Lol. I should have refreshed the page.

Welllllllllllll, technically d1s are all unsafe, they are just so fast and have very little block stun so that it's hard to punish them. Elbow dash levels of disadvantage on block even, just that the amount of time you have to punish is much lower so it almost never happens.

Sindel's d1 information: -14 on block and 0 on hit. Seems bad but it's ok considering other characters who I have checked.

o_o I had no idea it was -14 on block. Interesting.

 

[Urichinan]

EDIT:

Swoooooosh~!

Looks like everyone covered it while I was typing. Never mind. :3