Strategy - Raiden Raiden players need an attitude adjustment!

[buyacushun]

is this in the corner? i wouldnt do that in displacer, F12b2 F12B2 214xxEXdf2 will give you more dmg and slightly less gravity. but i still wouldnt end a corner combo with enhanced teleport.

if you want to end in restand, then you should end with b14xxdb1. +9, i usually 112 after that since its 8 frames and cant be interrupted, and since thats + go into other things

If you're wanting to burn 2 bars to hit 50%, you can do F12b2 F12B2 B14xxMBdb1, and go into whatever string you want with exdf2 into ender after

If you want sorcery, do F12b2 F12B2 214xxEXdf2 F12B2xxdu into another du immediately

But this isnt a thread about what combos and such. i tend to use 112 a lot in open space due to its awesome range, its like my lennox lewis jab

whoops I meant cancel into regular teleport.

hmmmm I like it but 2f link blockstrings online is a toss up lol. 112 in open space. . . That seems odd with it being a high but I'll try it. Couldn't hurt to whip it out every once in a while. Thanks for the combo ideas. Hoping you could elaborate more on "other things" after 112.

Lately I've been doing d3xxdf2 after 112. It's safe and beats out a low poke if they try to trade. After you condition them to block low after 112 you can start going back into f2 (2+4)xxdu b11 shenanigans, or even go for a d3xxEXdu. I didn't realize until recently that low pokes can be canceled into EX teles but not regular ones.

Also, we should play again soon. When we had matches last time I was looking for Raiden mirrors, then you switched into Kotal and Cassie territory ;-)

It was fun though. I've been using f12 into grab a lot lately since I saw you doing it. My friends have played my Raiden so much that it's pretty hard to mix them up anymore, and any little way I can screw with their rhythm is nice. So, thanks for that

Oh you could've sent me a message asking for raiden lol. I don't like playing MoS that much but I've decided to pick up displacer so my time with Raiden doesn't become a complete waste. So I'll be more willing to play raiden for extended sessions.

I liked the 21 into b2 thing you were doing. But I'd be careful on that since there is no crazy blockstring pressure with MoS and Displacer Raiden. Online you'll get away with it more but offline at -6, if a person is good they'll make you block or spend bar.

 

[Vaiist]

I liked the 21 into b2 thing you were doing. But I'd be careful on that since there is no crazy blockstring pressure with MoS and Displacer Raiden. Online you'll get away with it more but offline at -6, if a person is good they'll make you block or spend bar.

Yeah, I realize it's definitely wide open. There are just so many ways to follow after 21, and once they realize that I think it messes with them. You condition them with 214, then start doing 21 b2. Once they figure that out, they'll start to fuzzy guard the low and you come in with a 21 b3. Once they realize you have two low options and an overhead, they might start hesitating enough for you to go for the grab.

It's not always going to work, but I feel like Raiden's best offense is overwhelming someone psychologically.

 

[Nivek]

Yesterday i had at least 140-150 games with displacer..i will tell you my thoughts about it soon

 

[DDutchguy]

No one's happy about Raiden getting his option select and mid F1 removed, but it's the hand we've been dealt and we still have a pretty good one. Raiden has a good amount of stuff to work with, we should make the most of it. It's what this thread is for.

So, are there any strings where EXdb1 doesn't have a gap? Probably not considering its startup, but I like to keep my hopes up. Also, are there any matchups I should really be learning Thunder God for over Displacer?

 

[Shawnzzy]

No one's happy about Raiden getting his option select and mid F1 removed, but it's the hand we've been dealt and we still have a pretty good one. Raiden has a good amount of stuff to work with, we should make the most of it. It's what this thread is for.

So, are there any strings where EXdb1 doesn't have a gap? Probably not considering its startup, but I like to keep my hopes up. Also, are there any matchups I should really be learning Thunder God for over Displacer?

A short note on variations before I go into the meat of a longer post. I am starting to get the impression that using a different variation is as much a counter pick to a character as it can be to a player's play style. In a tournament setting, Displacer has become my answer to those who I feel know the TG match up too well. I even played MoS once in tournament just because I knew the guy I was playing hadn't seen anyone play it well. My abridged point to all of this is that it can only help you to learn ThunderGod because it allows you to not only counter characters, but play style as well.

.... So here's some more depth to my thought process behind the TG-Dis choice...

I may be biased in this case because I come from a ThunderGod background and only started working on the other two variations after the last patch, but I can give you my perspective on when I use one over the other. After about 2 months of friendlies and a 3 tournaments I feel pretty comfortable playing Displacer in a competitive setting and call on him for match ups that try to lock down Thunder God midscreen (HQT Pred... fuck him and his stupid plus dash cancels). Some of the ones I like it for at the moment are Tanya, Quan, Pred, and Tremor. I'll play TG for every other match up in the game, but I'm not sure I've optimized my Displacer enough to capitalize as well as I'd like on the variation switch.

What I wanted to highlight through this is the difference in mindset between the two. I play TG to create space with my lightning strings, armor their moves if they don't respect my frametraps, and LRC 12 vortex them to death in the corner. So my concept of Raiden play has evolved around these ideas. So Displacer acts as an ace in the hole for people who are breaking down my TG game plan. My Displacer game plan is a foil of this where I use the mobility to cross them up and pressure them until they crack (either from a mix up or start making poor choices.). Instead of frametraping I bait whiffs.

I know this is drawn out af, but I wanted to get the conversation started around multi-variation Raiden play as well.

Here's a question for you. What match-ups do find Displacer to struggle with?

 

[SonicNinja3532]

A short note on variations before I go into the meat of a longer post. I am starting to get the impression that using a different variation is as much a counter pick to a character as it can be to a player's play style. In a tournament setting, Displacer has become my answer to those who I feel know the TG match up too well. I even played MoS once in tournament just because I knew the guy I was playing hadn't seen anyone play it well. My abridged point to all of this is that it can only help you to learn ThunderGod because it allows you to not only counter characters, but play style as well.

.... So here's some more depth to my thought process behind the TG-Dis choice...

I may be biased in this case because I come from a ThunderGod background and only started working on the other two variations after the last patch, but I can give you my perspective on when I use one over the other. After about 2 months of friendlies and a 3 tournaments I feel pretty comfortable playing Displacer in a competitive setting and call on him for match ups that try to lock down Thunder God midscreen (HQT Pred... fuck him and his stupid plus dash cancels). Some of the ones I like it for at the moment are Tanya, Quan, Pred, and Tremor. I'll play TG for every other match up in the game, but I'm not sure I've optimized my Displacer enough to capitalize as well as I'd like on the variation switch.

What I wanted to highlight through this is the difference in mindset between the two. I play TG to create space with my lightning strings, armor their moves if they don't respect my frametraps, and LRC 12 vortex them to death in the corner. So my concept of Raiden play has evolved around these ideas. So Displacer acts as an ace in the hole for people who are breaking down my TG game plan. My Displacer game plan is a foil of this where I use the mobility to cross them up and pressure them until they crack (either from a mix up or start making poor choices.). Instead of frametraping I bait whiffs.

I know this is drawn out af, but I wanted to get the conversation started around multi-variation Raiden play as well.

Here's a question for you. What match-ups do find Displacer to struggle with?

Honestly I don't think displacer has a matchup he can struggle with, simply because of the enhanced tele and the possibilities it creates. He probably has losing matchups in the form of 6-4s but still. I don't think he can really struggle with this variation, at least not in my opinion.

 

[DreadKnight1]

So a 6 frame normal trades with b11 after tele and if I do anything else besides b11 I'm negative?

No,the only string into telport that is safe is f22+4 which is about +2 on block after a telport(or without it) therefore if you do b11 which has an 8 frame startup they can trade with a 6 frame move or armour out freely. All other cancels into regular teleport are negative and most full combo punishable by the whole cast.i made a comparison between displacer and TG which was really my rant on why displacer isn't viable in my opinion and posted it a few months back

 

[buyacushun]

No,the only string into telport that is safe is f22+4 which is about +2 on block after a telport(or without it) therefore if you do b11 which has an 8 frame startup they can trade with a 6 frame move or armour out freely. All other cancels into regular teleport are negative and most full combo punishable by the whole cast.i made a comparison between displacer and TG which was really my rant on why displacer isn't viable in my opinion and posted it a few months back

Even teleport away?

 

[DDutchguy]

A short note on variations before I go into the meat of a longer post. I am starting to get the impression that using a different variation is as much a counter pick to a character as it can be to a player's play style. In a tournament setting, Displacer has become my answer to those who I feel know the TG match up too well. I even played MoS once in tournament just because I knew the guy I was playing hadn't seen anyone play it well. My abridged point to all of this is that it can only help you to learn ThunderGod because it allows you to not only counter characters, but play style as well.

.... So here's some more depth to my thought process behind the TG-Dis choice...

I may be biased in this case because I come from a ThunderGod background and only started working on the other two variations after the last patch, but I can give you my perspective on when I use one over the other. After about 2 months of friendlies and a 3 tournaments I feel pretty comfortable playing Displacer in a competitive setting and call on him for match ups that try to lock down Thunder God midscreen (HQT Pred... fuck him and his stupid plus dash cancels). Some of the ones I like it for at the moment are Tanya, Quan, Pred, and Tremor. I'll play TG for every other match up in the game, but I'm not sure I've optimized my Displacer enough to capitalize as well as I'd like on the variation switch.

What I wanted to highlight through this is the difference in mindset between the two. I play TG to create space with my lightning strings, armor their moves if they don't respect my frametraps, and LRC 12 vortex them to death in the corner. So my concept of Raiden play has evolved around these ideas. So Displacer acts as an ace in the hole for people who are breaking down my TG game plan. My Displacer game plan is a foil of this where I use the mobility to cross them up and pressure them until they crack (either from a mix up or start making poor choices.). Instead of frametraping I bait whiffs.

I know this is drawn out af, but I wanted to get the conversation started around multi-variation Raiden play as well.

Here's a question for you. What match-ups do find Displacer to struggle with?

I see teleport as Displacer's answer to the neutral, anti-zoning and keepaway. Sounds very ambitious, but in the neutral you can do far teleport to be (relatively) safe and half-screen, you can do teleport from full screen on a read or EX on reaction to full combo punish projectiles and you can teleport away if someone tries to run in on you from full screen, leaving you with a stamina advantage and a good distance away from the opponent.

So bad matchups for Displacer would be characters that can deal with teleport. Boneshaper seems to be a bad matchup because of its very quick projectile and low scoop. Hellsparks may be punishable from fullscreen-ish with a teleport. Besides Shinnok I imagine characters that can whiff punish really well, as in read a far teleport, then run in and punish (Johnny Cage and Cassie come to mind).

 

[DreadKnight1]

Even teleport away?

That reduces what can punish you almost every time but what's the point anyway because you've lost all momentum.

 

[DDutchguy]

That reduces what can punish you almost every time but what's the point anyway because you've lost all momentum.

Lets you start your keepaway game and forces your opponent to either run back in or zone, which you can deal with by means of EX-teleport and to a certain extent normal teleport.

 

[buyacushun]

That reduces what can punish you almost every time but what's the point anyway because you've lost all momentum.

Lets you start your keepaway game and forces your opponent to either run back in or zone, which you can deal with by means of EX-teleport and to a certain extent normal teleport.

Pretty much what @DDutchguy said. Plus, you could use it to get out of the corner on a blocked counter poke. Depending amount of frame disadvantage you could probably get a button off which could make your opponent wary of approaching again.

BTW, DDutch how do you play keepaway with raiden? I feel his normals lack the frames and ability to keep ranged. His projectile has subpar startup too. The only good part is his AA game.

 

[UsedForGlue]

Raiden players need a true mid more than anything else...

 

[DDutchguy]

Pretty much what @DDutchguy said. Plus, you could use it to get out of the corner on a blocked counter poke. Depending amount of frame disadvantage you could probably get a button off which could make your opponent wary of approaching again.

BTW, DDutch how do you play keepaway with raiden? I feel his normals lack the frames and ability to keep ranged. His projectile has subpar startup too. The only good part is his AA game.

Displacer's keepaway (or Raiden's keepaway in general for that matter) isn't centered around dealing damage from fullscreen. Raiden doesn't have the projectile to do that with and as you said, his normals aren't very fit for it either, with the exception of F4.

When I play keepaway, I do it as a way to open people up and force them to make mistakes. I'm sure you've already read that countless times, but it still applies here. I mostly do db1 from full screen to build meter and either bait the opponent into doing their own projectile, followed by teleport into most likely grab, or force a run, which you can somewhat-punish with EXdf2, F12B2, F4 (though on a read more than anything) or a teleport to appear behind them while they are out of stamina.

I sometimes also do EXdb1 (+12 on block) as a way for me to run in without getting punished too badly for it, or to give myself a good teleport.

But in short, Raiden's keep away is about forcing the other to make a move and reacting accordingly with teleports or whiff punishes.

 

[buyacushun]

Raiden players need a true mid more than anything else...

So many times I poke and get hit, I just think "Now if I had that 6f mid"

 

[buyacushun]

Displacer's keepaway (or Raiden's keepaway in general for that matter) isn't centered around dealing damage from fullscreen. Raiden doesn't have the projectile to do that with and as you said, his normals aren't very fit for it either, with the exception of F4.

When I play keepaway, I do it as a way to open people up and force them to make mistakes. I'm sure you've already read that countless times, but it still applies here. I mostly do db1 from full screen to build meter and either bait the opponent into doing their own projectile, followed by teleport into most likely grab, or force a run, which you can somewhat-punish with EXdf2, F12B2, F4 (though on a read more than anything) or a teleport to appear behind them while they are out of stamina.

I sometimes also do EXdb1 (+12 on block) as a way for me to run in without getting punished too badly for it, or to give myself a good teleport.

But in short, Raiden's keep away is about forcing the other to make a move and reacting accordingly with teleports or whiff punishes.

But what do you have to do that? Db1 is barely bothering anyone with it's long startup and being a high. I feel like displacer is supposed to play like a character that uses fundamentals to start his mixup game. But he doesn't really have anything to control the match. No frames to abuse and if you touch your opponent you're negative and close enough where you basically give them a "turn". Idk but to me it seems if your opponent doesn't play too well and isn't familiar with Raiden then you can play like that.

He definitely has the tools to capitalize on mistakes but I never feel like I baited a mistake. Just that my opponent plain messed up on something. If that makes any sense.

I just started learning him so could you go in depth in how you would do something? Like maybe how you'd condition a mistake. Maybe I'm missing something.

 

[DDutchguy]

But what do you have to do that? Db1 is barely bothering anyone with it's long startup and being a high. I feel like displacer is supposed to play like a character that uses fundamentals to start his mixup game. But he doesn't really have anything to control the match. No frames to abuse and if you touch your opponent you're negative and close enough where you basically give them a "turn". Idk but to me it seems if your opponent doesn't play too well and isn't familiar with Raiden then you can play like that.

He definitely has the tools to capitalize on mistakes but I never feel like I baited a mistake. Just that my opponent plain messed up on something. If that makes any sense.

I just started learning him so could you go in depth in how you would do something? Like maybe how you'd condition a mistake. Maybe I'm missing something.

Haven't played Displacer that long either so this is partly just theory. I have some high-level players on my friends list, so I'll have to have some matches with them to see how well this works. Part of this type of play working also has to do with the constant threat of teleport, with people trying to get you to teleport and thus making them play more defensively.

 

[Ricky_Tick_Russ]

It is his best variation. The only thing thunder god really has over Displacer is his ability to convert good damage off of his low starter easily. It doesnt make up for the fact that Displacer cannot be contained, pressured, or cornered if he has a bar and does not want to be.

I am thinking of making a tech video of some things i have discovered similar to my Sorcerer vids, but based on my previous experience of trying to help the community i may just stick to lurking.

As someone who desperately wants to get better, and feels things can be learned from just about anyone. I'd greatly appreciate any kind of tech you're willing to share. Maybe others might be able to decipher that some things aren't as viable as initially thought. But that's part of learning. I'm just one person. But it would be greatly appreciated none the less.