Strategy - Raiden Raiden players need an attitude adjustment!

[Nivek]

If you're a Raiden player and you have never played Displacer, I'd advise to at least go to the lab with him for a bit. Raiden's teleport is quite good in my opinion. Far teleport is a pretty safe option in the neutral and you can get a keep away game going with it (when someone runs up to you to start their pressure, you can teleport right away on reaction, leaving you half-screen away from them while they have little stamina left).

Displacer and MoS also get pretty good damage. 32% meterless punisher, BnB's in the high 30's for a bar off of B33 and F12B2 and 40's in the corner (TG has the corner game as well, but Displacer and MoS have quite alright midscreen damage as well).

As for dealing with the low profiles, know that F22+4xxTeleport into B11 is a near-frame trap. In general I feel F22+4 is Raiden's answer to low profiles. I'll have to experiment with it to see how useful it is in practice.

the answer to low profiles you mean (f2)2+4 only right? the second hit move? they will interrupt you everytime :/

By the way i want to keep my fbrc +2~+3 lauchers that do 25% - 28% on hit and keep the pressure and guarantee the corner rather string with gaps,that are minus on block, and gimmicks setups afterwards...
for some extra damage..

 

[DDutchguy]

the answer to low profiles you mean (f2)2+4 only right? the second hit move? they will interrupt you everytime :/

By the way i want to keep my fbrc +2~+3 lauchers that do 25% - 28% on hit and keep the pressure and guarantee the corner rather string with gaps,that are minus on block, and gimmicks setups afterwards...
for some extra damage..

F22+4 having a gap is a pain, perhaps F24 is better since it doesn't have one and can be confirmed into a combo or whatever you feel like (teleport or otherwise).

TG having the cancels is a big help and meterless damage is quite nice, but Displacer holds his own compared to TG. The teleport may seem like a gimmick, but far teleport is fantastic and EX-teleport is a get-out-of-the-corner-for-free card. Not here to tell people what to think, but I honestly feel like Displacer hasn't been explored enough to be considered inferior to TG.

Also, strings that are - on block? Pretty sure the 'unique' MoS and Displacer strings are either 2 or like -3 only. I mean it's -, but barely a bother.

 

[Gustavness]

Not an "ask for buffs" thread. We are trying to figure out how to cover Raiden's weaknesses with what we have already.
@Gustavness anything informative would be deeply appreciated.

I dont understand what this thread is about

Displacer is the better variation, that much is clear. TG's only benefit over it is a better low starter. As for the other thread about F+1, i initially had problems with it being a high. But its a 6 frame launcher with excellent anti air properties. the gap is irrelevant, and so is it being a high

Displacer can frame trap with enhanced teleport from many things. Hell, at full screen you can do a MB lightning ball, normal teleport, and frame trap (this setup is +8). Shit, you can even run full screen behind the lightning ball and frame trap with it, and in the corner its +12

112 as a poking tool has incredible range, no gaps, and is +2 with great positioning. can be used to build a lot of meter with many other followups afterwards into more guaranteed frame traps

Shit, if you're cornered, he actually has a combo for 1 bar where he can take you to the complete opposite corner on any stage (which is hilarious to me). with teleport away, stage position is irrelevant. enhanced teleport having armor, being safe, and allowing you to escape armor break setups makes any characters knockdown pressure irrelevant AND fully punishable.

F+4 being a safe low crush for 11%, insane range, and a good air defense move at 3/4 screen completely changes some matchups. Johnny cage not being able to pressure with D+4 makes me feel alive

Raidens lack of a fast, solid mid is annoying (B+1,1 whiffs way too much when it shouldnt). DB3 and MBDB3 needs to be completely re-designed because they are absolutely terrible in their current state. but other than that, i dont feel like not having a strong mid as a weakness overshadows his other strengths. not everyone can have kung lao tempest pressure or quan chi summoner mixups built into all their movesets.

Displacer is much, much better than people realize. but everyone is stuck on TG's nutsack because he won a major due to ridiculously OP mechanics.

F22+4 having a gap is a pain, perhaps F24 is better since it doesn't have one and can be confirmed into a combo or whatever you feel like (teleport or otherwise).

F2,2+4 has no gap, not sure what you mean here.

 

[Evil Canadian]

You smoke a lot of weed, don't you?

I don't touch the devils weed thank you very much.

 

[SonicNinja3532]

Ok im gonna work on it later when I get on. Are you on xbox? If so add me XXxR1ddleMeTh1s and that goes for anyone who reads this just add me on xbox I'm always looking for ppl to play

I'm on Xbox man, provided the internet isn't too bad I'd be happy to show you Displacer.

 

[Nivek]

Displacer is the better variation, that much is clear. TG's only benefit over it is a better low starter. As for the other thread about F+1, i initially had problems with it being a high. But its a 6 frame launcher with excellent anti air properties. the gap is irrelevant, and so is it being a high

Wow i admire your passion about displacer but i doupt its his best variation and i can prove it to you.. ofc not because i,digit (and dizzy used to play) play TG.. also the tournament TG won was because of f1 being mid!!
Also the gap in f12b2 isnt irrelevant.. you must be very careful against good opponents with that!!

Displacer can frame trap with enhanced teleport from many things. Hell, at full screen you can do a MB lightning ball, normal teleport, and frame trap (this setup is +8). Shit, you can even run full screen behind the lightning ball and frame trap with it, and in the corner its +12

In TG all the lighting strings and not with fbrc are frametraps, also b1122 and b11 fbrc is one of his best frame traps, along with b2 fbrc, 11fbrc etc
In TG you stop the mb ball for soooo much more offence,pressure and safeness..its one of the ways to make kinda safe the b2! And on block the cancel is +20

112 as a poking tool has incredible range, no gaps, and is +2 with great positioning. can be used to build a lot of meter with many other followups afterwards into more guaranteed frame traps

Actually you gain more meter in TG also you cant combo into anything on hit..the only good thing is that is +2 on block. But 11fbrc is also plus on block, so TG has also many follow ups into guaranteed frame traps to more meter building

Shit, if you're cornered, he actually has a combo for 1 bar where he can take you to the complete opposite corner on any stage (which is hilarious to me). with teleport away, stage position is irrelevant. enhanced teleport having armor, being safe, and allowing you to escape armor break setups makes any characters knockdown pressure irrelevant AND fully punishable.

Ok the MB teleport is god like...but first of all you need a bar and also you cant play keep away àaall the time..boooring!
I use b11222 (yes three times) to mix my teleport timing to get out of the corner..so even TG has a sort of teleport

F+4 being a safe low crush for 11%, insane range, and a good air defense move at 3/4 screen completely changes some matchups. Johnny cage not being able to pressure with D+4 makes me feel alive

24f though...too slow! Only on reads is good!

Raidens lack of a fast, solid mid is annoying (B+1,1 whiffs way too much when it shouldnt). DB3 and MBDB3 needs to be completely re-designed because they are absolutely terrible in their current state. but other than that, i dont feel like not having a strong mid as a weakness overshadows his other strengths. not everyone can have kung lao tempest pressure or quan chi summoner mixups built into all their movesets.

I disagree.. TG has good pressure without bar with fbrc but he needs a solid mid!
I agree about b11 and shoryuken and ex! ^^

In conclusion displacer is good but isnt a god...even though TG is a fallen god now..lol
P.S. f2,2+4 doesnt have a gap..but they will low profile you before the 2+4 come out @DDutchguy
P.S.2 Dis vs Tg the difference on damage is 1%.. only in f12b2 dis/mos have more damage but again its way harder to execute it

 

[I GOT HANDS]

I'm a big fan of going for grabs after a b14. As Displacer, any time you end a combo in b14, instead of going for a superman you cancel into a behind teleport and get a pretty reliable grab setup. So in the first combo, instead of doing 48%, you get about 44% (I believe) with a very high probability of getting an additional 12%. The only time this doesn't work for me is if I've been doing a set with somebody all night and they eventually predict it and start going for the tech. As it is, it kinda comes out of nowhere and it's not something people are expecting to have to deal with.

How plus are you before the grab?

 

[HuttonMD]

I'm on Xbox man, provided the internet isn't too bad I'd be happy to show you Displacer.

Ok sounds good just add me. My internet is pretty good but it still depends on how mkx wants to act that day

 

[Vaiist]

How plus are you before the grab?

I have to admit, I don't understand frame data well enough to look at all the numbers and tell you exactly how it adds up. Also, b14 is an interesting string because it will recover differently depending at what height you hit them with it. Maybe somebody who breaks things like this down could give you the exact data, because I don't even know if you're significantly plus at all or it works simply because nobody expects a grab coming when you're ending a combo from half way across the screen.

 

[errormacro7]

I don't touch the devils weed thank you very much.

You def smoke some weed or sniff some glue

 

[DreadKnight1]

I didn't know f2+24 tele b11 was a frame trap thanks for the info.

I just started playing displacer but when I first started playing him I knew low profiling was a weakness of his and started messing around with f22+4 and it definitely a good answer since it has decent forward movement so if you space yourself properly it can get you in and its +2 on block

It's not, a 6 frame normal trades with it. And every other cancel is negative in block

 

[HuttonMD]

It's not, a 6 frame normal trades with it. And every other cancel is negative in block

So a 6 frame normal trades with b11 after tele and if I do anything else besides b11 I'm negative?

 

[Evil Canadian]

You def smoke some weed or sniff some glue

I am high on sobriety and Jesus Christ.

 

[SonicNinja3532]

How plus are you before the grab?

If you mean b14 in to tele, I believe it is still possibly the same as a normal b14, which is +9. If I'm correct, the grab isn't guaranteed, but they only have a frame to armor. Obviously as a result if they catch on to the grab, you can 50/50 or do f12, as it should catch a tech or armour attempt. Hope I helped.

 

[I GOT HANDS]

If you mean b14 in to tele, I believe it is still possibly the same as a normal b14, which is +9. If I'm correct, the grab isn't guaranteed, but they only have a frame to armor. Obviously as a result if they catch on to the grab, you can 50/50 or do f12, as it should catch a tech or armour attempt. Hope I helped.

+9 is absolutely perfect for a tick throw so that's actually pretty legit

If I caught on to a grab tho I'd just neutral duck or uppercut or armor and not risk a risky ass tech for absolutely no payoff, so I think if you read that they've adapted, the better option would be a guaranteed D1 into 50/50 I think in most cases, or just straight into whatever your best non high opener <15f start up is

 

[Raidenwins]

If you mean b14 in to tele, I believe it is still possibly the same as a normal b14, which is +9. If I'm correct, the grab isn't guaranteed, but they only have a frame to armor. Obviously as a result if they catch on to the grab, you can 50/50 or do f12, as it should catch a tech or armour attempt. Hope I helped.

I think B1, 4 is +7 on hit, not +9. If you add a Lighting Bolt, then it's +9.

 

[exflyingbooty]

I am high on sobriety and Jesus Christ.

Communion wine

 

[SonicNinja3532]

+9 is absolutely perfect for a tick throw so that's actually pretty legit

If I caught on to a grab tho I'd just neutral duck or uppercut or armor and not risk a risky ass tech for absolutely no payoff, so I think if you read that they've adapted, the better option would be a guaranteed D1 into 50/50 I think in most cases, or just armorable D4 into guaranteed 50/50

I think B1, 4 is +7 on hit, not +9. If you add a Lighting Bolt, then it's +9.

I'll double check now, but I'm pretty sure it is +9. I remember because db1, b14 and 214 were all +9, unless they changed the hit advantage data.

EDIT: I was wrong, b14 is actually only + 6. It is potentially possible that when cancelled into teleport it may be more plus, similar to when it is run cancelled.

 

[Nivek]

I think b14 plus's depends on the height ... it can be minus if its low enough on juggle

 

[buyacushun]

I mostly play MoS so the only stuff I have to add is that that variation is still in beta.

Displacer teleport is pretty good and I'll probably start playing that variation the most. I was in the lab a while ago and I think to get the most out of b14xxTele you have to do a less damaging combo like hollywood cassie meterless nut punch. Otherwise it seemed negative. I tried doing the jump test. I might be remembering wrong and thus could be for some other setup. Was surprised that the teleport wasn't as applicable as I hoped.

Don't play thunder god since I find that one too boring and it nerfed MoS. Forever salty.

 

[Gustavness]

@Nivek

I like the discussion here.

TG has better + frames with his RC, there is no disputing that. there is also no disputing that he builds more meter, and that he has a much better low starter. IMO the best thing i wish i had in displacer was being able to stop the MB lightning ball

However, i am the type of player that likes the neutral game play. You may think that being able to teleport away from people is boring, but i like being able to change the state of play. with good execution (admittedly, doing MB teleport on wakeup is hard to get consistently, i am still working on it) being able to change and ignore stage position, not have to deal with armor break setups on wakeup, not having to deal with being zoned, etc etc. To me, that is more valuable that being more plus on strings.

Combo damage is pretty much the same

F4 being slow is crappy. but it is still a great low crush

The reason i say that the gap in F+1,2,B+1 is irrelevant is the same reason that cassie having a gap in her B+1 string is irrelevant. you still use it, its an excellent move that you can stop and still be safe and punish, cancel into something else (same as cassie likes to do with flip kick) and be safe, etc.

For anyone else reading, add 112 to your game (in any variation). that string is so good

 

[buyacushun]

Doing f12b2 f12b2 f12b2xxEXdf2 b14xxTeleport seems difficult to make plus. That was the setup I had trouble with. Anyone know the timing to that?

For anyone else reading, add 112 to your game (in any variation). that string is so good

I like using 112 after a blocked jump in. What do you do after a blocked 112?

 

[Gustavness]

Doing f12b2 f12b2 f12b2xxEXdf2 b14xxEXdu seems difficult to make plus. That was the setup I had trouble with. Anyone know the timing to that?


I like using 112 after a blocked jump in. What do you do after a blocked 112?

is this in the corner? i wouldnt do that in displacer, F12b2 F12B2 214xxEXdf2 will give you more dmg and slightly less gravity. but i still wouldnt end a corner combo with enhanced teleport.

if you want to end in restand, then you should end with b14xxdb1. +9, i usually 112 after that since its 8 frames and cant be interrupted, and since thats + go into other things

If you're wanting to burn 2 bars to hit 50%, you can do F12b2 F12B2 B14xxMBdb1, and go into whatever string you want with exdf2 into ender after

If you want sorcery, do F12b2 F12B2 214xxEXdf2 F12B2xxdu into another du immediately

But this isnt a thread about what combos and such. i tend to use 112 a lot in open space due to its awesome range, its like my lennox lewis jab

 

[Vaiist]

Doing f12b2 f12b2 f12b2xxEXdf2 b14xxEXdu seems difficult to make plus. That was the setup I had trouble with. Anyone know the timing to that?


I like using 112 after a blocked jump in. What do you do after a blocked 112?

Lately I've been doing d3xxdf2 after 112. It's safe and beats out a low poke if they try to trade. After you condition them to block low after 112 you can start going back into f2 (2+4)xxdu b11 shenanigans, or even go for a d3xxEXdu. I didn't realize until recently that low pokes can be canceled into EX teles but not regular ones.

Also, we should play again soon. When we had matches last time I was looking for Raiden mirrors, then you switched into Kotal and Cassie territory ;-)

It was fun though. I've been using f12 into grab a lot lately since I saw you doing it. My friends have played my Raiden so much that it's pretty hard to mix them up anymore, and any little way I can screw with their rhythm is nice. So, thanks for that

 

[omooba]

you fucken bitch you low down albanian prostitute

im so mad right now

best reaction ever LMAO