Guide - Hish-Qu-Ten Plasma Caster Cancel block advantage

[jokey77]

B311 low shot is a true blockstring, as well as standing 4~pc d3.

I found that 4~PC is around +8 on block as you can do a f1 right after without any fear of a reversal jab or special

edit: apparently 4~pc is +10 and you can get a 122~low shot for a total of 6.5% chip

.. any reason why they can't duck and poke?

 

[Gesture Required Ahead]

I'm back in the lab now and I'm noticing very weird things about testing with NJ and testing with Reversals. I might have fucked up big time on this. Although I can say for sure that 4 xx PCC is +12 guaranteed.

I have to go now but I'll be back shortly in the lab and make all the necessary corrections

 

[BoromiRofGeo]

is it me or does predator has shades of kabal's ndc?

 

[Gesture Required Ahead]

Ok made some corrections. 12 xx PCC is +9, F12 xx PCC is only around +6 and 32 xx PCC is only +8

 

[BoromiRofGeo]

Ok made some corrections. 12 xx PCC is +9, F12 xx PCC is only around +6 and 32 xx PCC is only +8

makes sense because i can combo 32pcc into f12d2 or into another 32. but i cant combo f12 into anything. sometimes maybe 1 out of 10 f12 into another f12.

 

[BoricuaHeat]

D4PCC is -5 on block.

 

[BoricuaHeat]

21PCC: +5

B311PCC: +3

B22PCC: +3

122PCC: +6

I'll keep testing other strings as time goes on but so far this is what I've got, pleasing results too.

 

[SaltShaker]

21PCC: +5

B311PCC: +3

B22PCC: +3

122PCC: +6

I'll keep testing other strings as time goes on but so far this is what I've got, pleasing results too.

Pleasing indeed.

 

[DrManhattan]

Great Thread. Great information.

can we talk about the mechanics of the cancel?

Pad... How are you guys doing it? I can link 32 to 32 about 50% of the time right now. 12 plasma can be dialed out as quick as possible and it will always come out. If you dial out 32 plasma, then hit ff... the cannon doesn't come out. I know why, you cannot start the dash before the startup animation. The hard part of this for me is that you have to delay some where before doing the dash 3 delay 2 plasma cancel or 32 delay plasma cancel. Can you guys talk about how you actually do the cancel? I think the key is to mash the dash really fast as soon as the plasma starts up. BUTTTT if you let go of 3 to early u get a plasma shot. at least that is safe if you screw up though.

 

[FiercePhil56]

@DrManhattan
Turning on input shortcuts would make it easier because you can mash out the direction

 

[DrManhattan]

@DrManhattan
Turning on input shortcuts would make it easier because you can mash out the direction

really? i didn't know that helped

 

[podizzler3000]

this data still valid ?

 

[MadeOfMetal]

this data still valid ?

i doubt it

 

[Parasurama]

is there still a point to do cancels then? I find the down laser/overhead mix ups good. In my game plan, I try and space it out for the b2. And then try mixups but usually in neutral up close the other characters have faster moves so d3 is my friend. perhaps I use f1 more but can get poked and low profiled. If cancels still give advantage then it would make it easy up close.

 

[xInfra Deadx]

this data still valid ?

Feels pretty accurate to me.

@Aizen Taicho

 

[SaSSolino]

 

[Gesture Required Ahead]

Feels pretty accurate to me.

@Aizen Taicho

AFAIK, the patches haven`t changed any of this data. Any data between -5 to -1 and +1 to +5 is vague anyways and is only an estimate. The only tested accurate data are those below -5 or above +5

 

[jokey77]

I was looking into this topic lately and came up with an idea. Actually the formula for cancels used to be:

start-up frames + active frames + recovery frames. I wanted to see, if one can calculate the exact numbers that way (first white column).

Then I was wondering: Why does noone take blockadvantage into account? The new formula would be:
start-up frames + active frames + recovery frames + block advantage (usually a negative number)

This leads to new numbers (second white column) and I think, these might make sense indeed.

My theory now is that you have to subtract -12 (duration of a fast, but doable PCC) to get somewhat decent numbers.

What do my fellow Predators think?

 

[jokey77]

These would be the exact numbers:

 

[jokey77]

... the more I test it, the more I think these numbers are accurate.
Then again even faster cancels seem to be possible, even though 12f is realistic during the heat of the battle!

21PCC: +5

B311PCC: +3

B22PCC: +3

122PCC: +6

I'll keep testing other strings as time goes on but so far this is what I've got, pleasing results too.

These videos, especially the B311 one, show that 8f cancels should be possible (all hitbox questions aside). I still think that 12f is a good number to calculate with.

Edit: I think that d4 has -7 (ideal cancel) or -12 (easy cancel), but the Reptile-video above is missleading because the dash doesnt hit on its first active frame.

 

[jokey77]

Further research causes some doubt. I wonder if blockadvantage should be added or subtracted to these numbers.

At the end of the day it might be irrelevant, as long as the framedata for the cancel is subtracted correctly (be it my numbers from above, be it a number around 25 that is subtracted from higher numbers).

Noone seems to care anyway!

 

[BoricuaHeat]

Haven't been playing cause responsibilities and shit.

I'll get check the cancels of certain moves again to check if their right.

 

[Crusty]

Not that it should concern me in any way, but is there a chance where this will be updated.

 

[Ayyjayyy]

Not that it should concern me in any way, but is there a chance where this will be updated.

B22 still plus, b13 0, 21 ~ plus 1. It's just 1-2 frames off from prenerf it seems. Reo suspects -2 on cancels because you can only now frameperfect block reptile slide using d4 pcc.

 

[jokey77]

I think they said the exact number on one of the NRS streams. It was universal indeed and I think it was 4. More than what Reo said, that's why I got confused and remember.