General/Other - Takeda (Old) Takahashi Takeda General Pre-Release Discussion Thread

[EMPEROR PRYCE]

Are we even positive the ex kunai is a low? I don't recall it being mentioned. Also, do we know if we can release the kunai explosion while in block/hit stun?

 

[Invincibeast]

Just think about it makes me shivers, the mental advantage was one of my favorite things in MK9, if you manage to dominate the frame traps well you can to things that they have to consider either to take a risk or play safe and still get doomed by each choice when you're on their heads.

I did it with Skarlet by forcing them to block red dash options by doing, either pretty late, pretty early or somewhere in between, so they started to get opened for blockstrings all the time and whiff punishes, such as well getting punish for trying to get out earlier.

I see a similar scenario on Takeda's ex Kunais, and it can even be worse because Takeda can go either way from any range once he sets a ex Kunai with someone in between them, initially its like they're stuck, if they move you can just react to it haha.

I just thought... in Ronin variation, what if you get MB Kunai down on one side of the screen with them in the middle, then use your beam projectile to basically force them to block and stay inside of them. Then once they try to do anything at all, release the kunai and essentially start it all over because the beam will build meter.
Hmmmmmmm fullscreen frametrap?

 

[Invincibeast]

Are we even positive the ex kunai is a low? I don't recall it being mentioned. Also, do we know if we can release the kunai explosion while in block/hit stun?

Nah just speculating if it is a low, which it looks to be.
No idea with releasing while being hit/stunned

EDIT: @EMPEROR PRYCE It is a low. 16bit mentions it at around the 21:43 mark in the gameplay from the full stream.

 

[Eddy Wang]

I just thought... in Ronin variation, what if you get MB Kunai down on one side of the screen with them in the middle, then use your beam projectile to basically force them to block and stay inside of them. Then once they try to do anything at all, release the kunai and essentially start it all over because the beam will build meter.
Hmmmmmmm fullscreen frametrap?

Yes, that is also another level of frametraping people up with the roning variation, they're forced to block the whole thing and probably will give even more meter to takeda

 

[Eddy Wang]

Are we even positive the ex kunai is a low? I don't recall it being mentioned. Also, do we know if we can release the kunai explosion while in block/hit stun?

Yes the Kunai hits low and Takeda can use it to make some of his strings safe, such as the overhead to low as we seen in the stream.

Not sure if the Kunai will stay in charge mode if takeda gets hit, but surely it will stay in there if he is moving around after throwing it, which leave us to the mixups speculatiion, blocking shouldn't change that tough.

Will be sick.

 

[Kenshi_mk]

I just thought... in Ronin variation, what if you get MB Kunai down on one side of the screen with them in the middle, then use your beam projectile to basically force them to block and stay inside of them. Then once they try to do anything at all, release the kunai and essentially start it all over because the beam will build meter.
Hmmmmmmm fullscreen frametrap?

Kunai is replaced by Blade Drop in Ronin variation.

 

[RoboCop]

Are we even positive the ex kunai is a low? I don't recall it being mentioned. Also, do we know if we can release the kunai explosion while in block/hit stun?

The normal version is a low (they say so in the stream). Just speculating on the MB version, but don't see why it would change since it's not unblockable.

One thing I'm not seeing in all of this mix-up talk is the potential of his teleport-CANCELS!!! Holy shit, are you kidding me? It looks like the only startup on his TP is his crouching animation. Once he releases, that shit is faster than Smoke's MK9 port. Can you imagine the mind games you can play on people? Hell, get the life-lead and go into a full-screen TP crouch. WTF is your opponent going to do?

 

[Eddy Wang]

Kunai is replaced by Blade Drop in Ronin variation.

oow, if that is true, then there is mixing up with kunai into beam, but the concept of ex kunai will be replaced with the blade drop, or maybe he can juggles into blade drop then blockstring into blade summoning

 

[Eddy Wang]

The normal version is a low (they say so in the stream). Just speculating on the MB version, but don't see why it would change since it's not unblockable.

One thing I'm not seeing in all of this mix-up talk is the potential of his teleport-CANCELS!!! Holy shit, are you kidding me? It looks like the only startup on his TP is his crouching animation. Once he releases, that shit is faster than Smoke's MK9 port. Can you imagine the mind games you can play on people? Hell, get the life-lead and go into a full-screen TP crouch. WTF is your opponent going to do?

we're talking about it, just not that often of course that is on the mix, if he can get people to get worried with a explosive kunai between their legs, i'm sure he can jump into teleport to attack from the oposite side in case they try to escape by jump, or land into blocktring/letting the kunai go off and use the blockstun to mix it up.

 

[RoboCop]

oow, if that is true, then there is mixing up with kunai into beam, but the concept of ex kunai will be replaced with the blade drop, or maybe he can juggles into blade drop then blockstring into blade summoning

Ronin has no Kunai move. It just had blade drop and blade recall.

 

[Rathalos]

Would you be able to use the beam when the sword is dropped?

The animation requires both Plasma Blades.

When the sword is on the ground he only has one(that magically keeps switching arms).

 

[Eddy Wang]

Ronin has no Kunai move. It just had blade drop and blade recall.

Yes i read, so there is no mixing up for safe string, we will figure it out once the game is in hands about how to use blade drop and blade recall.

 

[lmx17]

I wonder can takeda air spear otg off a hard knockdown.

 

[RoboCop]

Did they ever say kunai was safe? I remember them doing the overhead whip into low kunai and saying it was a good mixup, but I don't remember them saying anything about its safety. Did I miss it?

 

[EMPEROR PRYCE]

Yeah I'm more interested in his teleport cancels than the kunai lockdown. the kunais seem good, but not like a game changer. Sure they control space, but in a game full of teleports, its hard to tell right now.

The quick phase cancels seem pretty dope though. Baiting wake ups by canceling into block lmao. I can smell the salt already.

 

[RoboCop]

I also imagine he'll be able to build free meter with phase cancels and whiffed kunai.

 

[Invincibeast]

Shame that the kunai is replaced by sword drop, would have been nice to have both

 

[RoboCop]

I also wonder how canceling a nornal into a phase cancel will affect his frame data. The start up looks a little slow, but I imagine that's still going to lead to some solid mixups.

 

[EMPEROR PRYCE]

I'm calling it now. Takeda will run the ground game. He seems to have decent range. The low kunai and his running low will keep opponents blocking low upon approach which will open them up to the overheads sooner or later.

I WILL break this character!

 

[SaltShaker]

That Day -22 tech lol.

 

[NoobHunter420]

Lasher is the only interesting thing about this guy.
Voice could be better
Kung Jin tho

 

[RoboCop]

I'm calling it now. Takeda will run the ground game. He seems to have decent range. The low kunai and his running low will keep opponents blocking low upon approach which will open them up to the overheads sooner or later.

I WILL break this character!

He definitely runs the ground game. I'm worried that he runs the air game just as well! In Shirai he's got air TP (with basically no start-up from the looks of it) and air whip (wondering how the hitbox works. If he does air whip and you jump forward, landing basically on top of the middle of the whip, do you still get grabbed?). Good luck approaching while he's airborne. In Lasher he's got that crazy anti-air. In Ronin he's got his sword recall, which looks like it might anti air. And guess what, we haven't seen any of his air normals (have we?). He might have Wowo or Catwoman-esque reach on his air normals.

 

[Eddy Wang]

Did they ever say kunai was safe? I remember them doing the overhead whip into low kunai and saying it was a good mixup, but I don't remember them saying anything about its safety. Did I miss it?

Not he did not, but assuming the how unsafe the overhead might be, being able to canceling into to low has to be a safe option, its just logic here

Yeah I'm more interested in his teleport cancels than the kunai lockdown. the kunais seem good, but not like a game changer. Sure they control space, but in a game full of teleports, its hard to tell right now.

The quick phase cancels seem pretty dope though. Baiting wake ups by canceling into block lmao. I can smell the salt already.

I will just quote 16 Bits own words from the stream "They have to sit there and BE SCARED of whatever you might be willing to do"

~

The Ex Kunai are placed in 3 different places, in front of the opponent, one in between their legs and one behind them, they don't go off immediately, since takeda can control the blast time into an extent it becomes a game changer move because either you deal with it by sitting there which is what primarily takeda would want to in first place, but telporting to avoid it will be the very first thing takeda players will want their opponents to do, blocking a teleport to get a full combo doesn't look like a bad idea to me.

Since he runs the ground pretty well, with that insane whip range, how far can someone escape from takeda's reach either way? He has a teleport too.

The point is this

They go off in line, if you get hit by the first blast, it will push you over to the rest of it and give takeda a full combo (Spear moves, teleports) no matter in what range he might be.

The fear of getting hit by this thing will make people doubt themselves, if either escape or stay, either way takeda doesn't care, this is his play field for that instance, maybe you can get a free teleport if the chargable button its not the same as the kunai.

 

[John Grizzly]

Takeda really scares me. I hate to assume anything prior to release with no final build, but man...he looks ridiculous.

As some have said, though...I doubt he will have a massive online presence. Everyone will still be playing Scorpion, Sub Zero, Mileena.....the classic characters. The casual players I know would look at Takeda and say "Man, he looks stupid and his voice sucks. I'm not playing him. What a waste." Same goes for Kung Jin.

Having said that, he looks really cool and seems pretty damn fun. I literally don't even know where to begin when I finally have this game in my hands. I do hope his voice was a placeholder, though. It sounds super out of place....especially when he's wearing that badass Shirai Ryu mask.

 

[GuerillaTactix]

Right. The only reason I like the Kunai better (potentially) is that the sword drop requires a separate input to recover, meaning he almost certainly can't do it while in hit/block stun. But since the MB Kunai only requires that he release the button to detonate, that leads me to believe there is a solid chance he can do so while blocking or being combo'd, which would be insane. That might end up not being the case (since it would be incredibly powerful), but I've got a feeling it might work that way.

Well we just came from a game where Aquaman could push one button to escape combos and punish YOU in return, so I think this will be able to be done lol.

Especially since it is a MB ability.

I wonder though if you can hold that button for very long and while you're holding it can you make any other inputs? Would hitting the block button release that button?

He definitely runs the ground game. I'm worried that he runs the air game just as well! In Shirai he's got air TP (with basically no start-up from the looks of it) and air whip (wondering how the hitbox works. If he does air whip and you jump forward, landing basically on top of the middle of the whip, do you still get grabbed?). Good luck approaching while he's airborne. In Lasher he's got that crazy anti-air. In Ronin he's got his sword recall, which looks like it might anti air. And guess what, we haven't seen any of his air normals (have we?). He might have Wowo or Catwoman-esque reach on his air normals.

I think you forgot that ball smash one he does too. You can control the distance on it apparently.