Discussion MKXL Post 3/29/16 Tier List Thread

[Somea2V]

His fireballs. You can't nuetral duck em full screen can you? Can't he throw them upwards too?

He can throw them upwards, yes. But you can neutral duck them with everyone (outside of the occasional breathing frames nonsense) at any distance except point blank and absolute full screen. Outside of those two points, they're nothing to worry about. And if you have a teleport or slide, they're even less of a threat.

And even in the case of full screen, you can step forward and duck on reaction due to wind up and travel time. So they're only worthy of respect at point blank, in which case using them would be silly.

 

[x TeeJay o]

He can throw them upwards, yes. But you can neutral duck them with everyone (outside of the occasional breathing frames nonsense) at any distance except point blank and absolute full screen. Outside of those two points, they're nothing to worry about. And if you have a teleport or slide, they're even less of a threat.

And even in the case of full screen, you can step forward and duck on reaction due to wind up and travel time. So they're only worthy of respect at point blank, in which case using them would be silly.

Ah ok then. Noted

 

[wsj515]

erron is solid B+

 

[GodsPhoenix11]

other than jason being a bit high it seems pretty good. and man lots of people think kung lao is bottom now but hes clearly high mid

 

[Pan1cMode]

The only weakness I can think for acidic alien is that he's free on wakeup. You don't have to respect any of his armour because it's easily armour broken.

 

[Derptile]

erron is solid B+

Lmao, no chance.

The only weakness I can think for acidic alien is that he's free on wakeup. You don't have to respect any of his armour because it's easily armour broken.

He has to take risks(big risk, big reward) if he wants to succeed.

other than jason being a bit high it seems pretty good. and man lots of people think kung lao is bottom now but hes clearly high mid

Jason's cheap and Kung Lao is close to being a shitter.

 

[D7X]

Can someone explain to me why Mileena's now at the top? What'should her best var?

 

[wsj515]

Lmao, no chance.

Going by your own definition of A and B+ tiers, Erron definitely belongs in B+. He is a decent character, but has some glaring and very potent weaknesses, which can be covered up if used by a player like sonic fox, thus B+ tier.

 

[Bomborge]

Going by your own definition of A and B+ tiers, Erron definitely belongs in B+. He is a decent character, but has some glaring and very potent weaknesses, which can be covered up if used by a player like sonic fox, thus B+ tier.

What are these massive weaknesses you speak of? Besides lacking a good mid, he rightfully belongs in A tier imo.

 

[Derptile]

What are these massive weaknesses you speak of? Besides lacking a good mid, he rightfully belongs in A tier imo.

Marksman has good mids that lead to 30%+ meterless.

Erron is fine where he is. Also the no mids argument is pretty shitty anyways, all it takes is 1 poke and he begin his mixup or pressure game.

 

[Bomborge]

Marksman has good mids that lead to 30%+ meterless.

Erron is fine where he is. Also the no mids argument is pretty shitty anyways, all it takes is 1 poke and he begin his mixup or pressure game.

Im not disagreeing with your placement, just curious what weaknesses he had that made @wsj515 think he belongs in B+ tier. I think the argument could even be made for erron in A+ tier.

 

[YoloRoll1stHit]

The only weakness I can think for acidic alien is that he's free on wakeup. You don't have to respect any of his armour because it's easily armour broken.

Not really. Have you seen Mileena's ex roll got fucked by characters who aren't known for having armor breaking tools? Alien's armors are equally bad

 

[Pan1cMode]

Not really. Have you seen Mileena's ex roll got fucked by characters who aren't known for having armor breaking tools? Alien's armors are equally bad

Mileena has a fast low profiling wakeup option with roll though. Armour breaking becomes less relevant when you can wakeup with something really quick anyways (think HQT pred's lasers)

 

[Tweedy]

In this community there's literally no difference between safe 50/50s and needing meter to launch and always being unsafe.

Literally.

I don't understand. It's like people just look at the start of frames and the range on moves .

 

[Nu-Skoool]

Can someone explain to me why Mileena's now at the top? What'should her best var?

Piercing
B12
Great zoning and counter zoning
Footsies
High meterless damage
Can convert solid damage from any situation
Natural highs and lows can be mixed up with low sai and ex roll respectively.

 

[FinalBoss_FGC]

I don't see how Acidic Alien can be on the decline. Best character in the game, free.

Other than that, respectable.

 

[YoloRoll1stHit]

How are you getting a full combo after jumping over DB2? Maybe pre patch before jump 2 was normalized. You're too high to convert off of anything with dive kick, i'm pretty sure.

Jump 3 probably works on cross overs, but you couldn't jump on flame fist at range pre patch, with jump 2. I'm in practice mode and it doesn't seem like jump 3 works at all vs Kang's D2.

The counter argument about the parry doesn't really do anything. My point is that there's less risk in parrying, since Lao has no low launcher. Any character can blow up anything if they read it. I mean...... I'm not just gonna knock liu kang down and do an instant air dive kick or jump 2.

Kung Lao's spacing is possibly the most overrated thing on this game. F2 is an okay mid that gets low profiled. It's basically a pretty good high. His D4 is good and B2 as a neutral tool? No way. His walk speed might be bottom 3, and Liu Kang has what might be top 3 walk speed. That is so huge, especially considering that Kang can auto pilot anti air with D2, and Lao has to come in on him.

Sorry i forgot about this post.
After block FBF4, Lao can jump FORWARD to avoid the ex db2 completely, then dive kick to punish it. It leads to about 25% meterless in Tempest. A high level Lao player should be able to do that consistently
Lao's footsie isn't just jump 2 spamming all day. Yea his spacing might have been overrated for more than a year, but look at Liu's move set, does he has any quick long range mid/low/overhead to compete with Lao's B2/d4/F2? And please compare Liu's back walk speed and Lao's forward walk speed, they're pretty close. Run button exists, Liu's back dash is horrible and he can't korean back dash like Kitana does. It's not that hard to chase down Liu and take advantage at close range with Lao

 

[Tweedy]

Sorry i forgot about this post.
After block FBF4, Lao can jump FORWARD to avoid the ex db2 completely, then dive kick to punish it. It leads to about 25% meterless in Tempest. A high level Lao player should be able to do that consistently
Lao's footsie isn't just jump 2 spamming all day. Yea his spacing might have been overrated for more than a year, but look at Liu's move set, does he has any quick long range mid/low/overhead to compete with Lao's B2/d4/F2? And please compare Liu's back walk speed and Lao's forward walk speed, they're pretty close. Run button exists, Liu's back dash is horrible and he can't korean back dash like Kitana does. It's not that hard to chase down Liu and take advantage at close range with Lao

I never said that his footsies are just jump 2. I even talked about my opinion on all 3 of the normals you mentioned.

I went into practice mode and the dive kick was too high after jumping over EX DB2, to convert. Maybe I didn't try enough stuff. I guess you could EX spin to convert.

Why would Liu Kang need to korean backdash? His walk speed is already among the best in the game. HIs backdash is also far better than Lao's.

I'm in practice mode right now and Liu flies in comparison to Kung Lao, whether he's walking forward or backwards. Maybe i'm blind.

Better walk speed, better backdash, Lao has to come in on him, he can low profile F2 with D3 and get massive hit advantage, B2 for Lao is garbage in the neutral. The only thing that Lao has going for him in the neutral vs Kang, is his D4.

 

[Phosferrax]

Better walk speed, better backdash, Lao has to come in on him, he can low profile F2 with D3 and get massive hit advantage, B2 for Lao is garbage in the neutral. The only thing that Lao has going for him in the neutral vs Kang, is his D4.

Liu doesn't really have an answer for d4, this is true, but D3 low profiling f2 is only ok but that's where b2/b3 comes in. If the Liu is just doing d3 in neutral in the hope that you're going to run in and f2 it's easy to blow up.

The j2 makes it so risky to throw a fireball (which is essentially where Liu's range comes from) from the distance that Liu likes to throw them, and I've always felt that KL's range is very hard for Kang to deal with because he doesn't really good range, which makes whiff punishing KL quite difficult for him.

 

[Apex Kano]

Kano is S+?? I would never have guess this day would come. Ranking Kano himself:
1. CT meter heavy and 50 50 and neutral greatness. Just note you need meter knowledge management skills and work on good footsies.

2. Commando: My Fave since all I need to do is apply pressure, and get you to block for the cmd grab pressure. Tick grabs and tick fakes into chokes/balls to catch the backdash. If you make good reads ypu can parry attacks. Requires good patience, baiting, and is the hardest vareint to use.

3. Cyber: good mids knives, anti air and standing reset. The reset needs a serious buff to make more plus where Kano players can have a true reset. This would single handling make Cyber real good and of course more damage on knives be great. Funny how this is his zoning varient and the other two have more damage on knives. But I still use Cyber but NRS refuse to work on Cyber and buff the other two.

 

[T-box88]

i feel like triborg (sektor variation) could be a little higher for a number of reasons. he has decent footsies and normals, f1 being an advancing 8 frame normal, f2 being a good advancing mid, has decent block strings that leave him at an advantage on block (i know these strings have gaps in them but baiting armored moves with him isnt that hard). decent pressure and mix ups with up rockets and mb rockets to help set it all up, decent zoning, hes one of only a handful of characters (at least to my knowledge) that gets actual damage off of air to air and anti air conversions (its almost always worth spending meter after either anti airing or air to airing cuz you will come close to 40% dmg, seriously, his standing 1 for anti air/anti cross overs is god like, and because f212bb restands, conversions couldnt be easier and all his combos are virtually the same) has good meterless dmg and metered dmg. has a good anti zoning tool with his teleport thats pseudo safe with meter. and also has a decent reversal option with ex flame thrower that grants him pressure options on hit and covers a big range and stops cross overs on wake up. The only things i found to be his weakness is that his corner game and set up options are limited, but he has so many good tools i can over look that.

first and foremost, im not a pro, But i would like to hear why sektor variation of triborg isnt enough to be A+. from my point of view, hes solid.

 

[NoJustiice]

If a Bo rai cho player can says something about his 3 varations, it would be really apreciated. Wich tiers for wich varations,with some explications.Thanks a lot guys

 

[Youphemism]

If a Bo rai cho player can says something about his 3 varations, it would be really apreciated. Wich tiers for wich varations,with some explications.Thanks a lot guys

They suck. He sucks. Don't play him. You're welcome.

Jokes aside he is kinda crap. He has probably the worst movement in the game meaning some matchups like Displacer Raiden and Smoke are terrible since you can rarely get a hit in. I play Bartitsu and although it has good range and you can play it defensively to an extent using its far-range D4 and farts he's still extremely slow. His fastest starter/punisher in this variation is TEN frames which is frankly outrageous. Drunken Master and Dragon's Breath at least have access to F1 which is an 8 frame multi-hitting advancing mid in those variations but in Bartitsu it's an 11 frame high. He has fast pokes but not many ways to get the opponent to respect him. He's supposed to excel at mixups but his risk reward is terrible since most options either require meter for big damage or just do very little damage, and almost everything he does is full combo punishable on block. Some of hix mixups options are actually so slow you can react to them and full combo punish him for them! However if you can get them to the corner you can really do some damage but unfortauntely it's one block and you're done. Drunken Master and Dragon's Breath are slightly better but you should find someone who plays those variations in the Bo forum since they'll be able to tell you more than I can about them.

 

[ismael4790]

They suck. He sucks. Don't play him. You're welcome.

Jokes aside he is kinda crap. He has probably the worst movement in the game meaning some matchups like Displacer Raiden and Smoke are terrible since you can rarely get a hit in. I play Bartitsu and although it has good range and you can play it defensively to an extent using its far-range D4 and farts he's still extremely slow. His fastest starter/punisher in this variation is TEN frames which is frankly outrageous. Drunken Master and Dragon's Breath at least have access to F1 which is an 8 frame multi-hitting advancing mid in those variations but in Bartitsu it's an 11 frame high. He has fast pokes but not many ways to get the opponent to respect him. He's supposed to excel at mixups but his risk reward is terrible since most options either require meter for big damage or just do very little damage, and almost everything he does is full combo punishable on block. Some of hix mixups options are actually so slow you can react to them and full combo punish him for them! However if you can get them to the corner you can really do some damage but unfortauntely it's one block and you're done. Drunken Master and Dragon's Breath are slightly better but you should find someone who plays those variations in the Bo forum since they'll be able to tell you more than I can about them.

Bo needs to get better mobility. Using Balanced vs him feels like playing MK9 Kenshi with esteroids.

 

[NoJustiice]

I'm sad to hear thats about Bo rai especially for his Dragon breath variation ( i love the concept), but thanks for the reply sir, its really clear for me now.