Match Footage - Raiden MIT using Raiden in YOMI finals

[brizzle]

I never understood why Raiden got a 6f mid, and KLs spin is 7f?
Raidens string should at least be 9f start up.

Pretty certain there were no mids in MK9 that were faster than 9f.

6f mids are not justifiable, if anybody could give me ONE reason why it's fair to have a move thats both 6f, AND mid, you'll earn a gold star.

The only way to make a 6f mid justifiable, is to make it punishable as fuck (See KL spin MK9)

so Kung Lao should get the fastest move in the game just because hes Kung Lao? Why is it fare raiden gets a 6 frame mid? He has terrible down pokes. He has terrible zoning. His walk speed is slow. Terrible cross ups. His specials are highly punishable. He lacks frame advantage. No safe advancing special. No dive kick. No command grab. And so on. Have you really not seen a 6f mid in a fg before?

 

[Pan1cMode]

People are crying for nerfs for this character yet they haven't even looked into how their character can beat f1,2 spam... If they are constantly spamming it you can simply d1-4 (depending on the character)

There are options to this for all of the cast that people don't know yet.

Mate your Raiden is great, but even you know how bullshit that string is, you've said so yourself.

 

[CJKRattlehead]

I never understood why Raiden got a 6f mid, and KLs spin is 7f?
Raidens string should at least be 9f start up.

Pretty certain there were no mids in MK9 that were faster than 9f.

6f mids are not justifiable, if anybody could give me ONE reason why it's fair to have a move thats both 6f, AND mid, you'll earn a gold star.

The only way to make a 6f mid justifiable, is to make it punishable as fuck (See KL spin MK9)

You want f12 to be 9 frames when it's -3? Now that is too harsh and KL still has the best special in the game (for two games in a row now)

Probably should just make f1 7 frames or -4 and reduce the pushback and meter build on the held lightning although they would have to adjust the block disadvantage cause you should not be full combo punished for holding lightning your pressure should end though after a f12b2.

EDIT: you were a KL player in mk9 no? Wasn't standing 2 a 7 frame mid?

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

You want f12 to be 9 frames when it's -3? Now that is too harsh and KL still has the best special in the game (for two games in a row now)

Probably should just make f1 7 frames or -4 and reduce the pushback and meter build on the held lightning although they would have to adjust the block disadvantage cause you should not be full combo punished for holding lightning your pressure should end though after a f12b2.

EDIT: you were a KL player in mk9 no? you should know he had a safe 7 frame mid

His standing 2 was a high not a mid, Raidens F1 hits neutral duck, Laos 2 never did.
I still stand by the idea that no mid should be faster than 9f tbh, at least one thats a safe string.

Also how is being -3 after a 9f mid too harsh? Even that would be pretty sick to have, what other character even has a 9f mid thats -3 on an easily hit confirmable string?

Most good mids in this game start around 10f.
Most good low pokes are between 6 and 9 frames, so again, how would having a 9f hit confirmable mid string be a bad thing?

 

[Big Pampering]

You input b2~ spin and then immediately press down. Timing is strict but once you get it down, the spin will come out on hit but not on block due to the way block stun and hit stun differ in this game.

I don't think single hit options selects can be done consistently, there may be exceptions, but I don't believe it can be done consistently.

 

[Big Pampering]

Raidens mid being 9 frames would probably still be the best mid in the game with that pushback, meter build, safeness and it being a launcher that can convert to a combo that puts your right into the corner. On block it puts you right into that counterpoke range again. Other fast mids or high are negative on block as well and leave them right in the face of their opponent which basically ends any pressure unless you are willing to do something really punishable.

This seems to me like the same discussion people had about supermans f23. Crying about it not being a ''why not move'' anymore, instead it was still a top 5 normal.

 

[Pan1cMode]

I don't think single hit options selects can be done consistently, there may be exceptions, but I don't believe it can be done consistently.

Cassie's f3~db2/f34 option select is pretty consistent. Just gotta get the timing down.

 

[Big Pampering]

Cassie's f3~db2/f34 option select is pretty consistent. Just gotta get the timing down.

Maybe that one is different but kung laos b2 spin imo is too hard to do consistently.

 

[Metzos]

so I just gave up my pressure and sat there and blocked. I should be able to punish if I make that read. Even though the pushback on uppercuts make it almost impossible to punish so no, you wouldn't eat 30%.

Why does everyone want to just take turns trading block strings lol. TG is a rushdown variation. Aren't rushdown characters supposed to have the advantage once you block them? Raidens zoning sucks, he has no teleport or safe way in. So when I do get in I should have the advantage.

It's so funny coming from KI and seeing what people think are broke in mkx. Sabrewulf can literally keep you locked down with frame advantage for the entire match and your only getting out if you backdash or armor. Two options you also have in mkx

Raiden can punish most, if not all, uppercuts with f1... You know whats the funny part? That if Raiden decides to do f12b2 after you block the 1st f12 you still get pressured cause you have to block the lightnings from b2.The entire f12b2 string is a mix up on its own.

Are you srsly bringing zoning in MKX? Really?

The reason he does not have a tp is cause if he did he would be more than broken... His projectile is above average plus he can cancel it, not even mention its ex version...

My point is, that you have to take many risks to even get Raiden off you, while he has minimal risks in general.

 

[brizzle]

My point is, that you have to take many risks to even get Raiden off you, while he has minimal risks in general.

Again, rushdown cariation. Seems like good design to me. Or should it be easy to get the rushdown char off you? Maybe it should be easy to rushdown a zoner? Or to zone a counter zoner? Raiden is a balanced strong character outside of his OS.

 

[Dizzy]

People in this thread make it sound like raiden OS is something unique to the char. Many unsafe mixups become safe with OS, not just raiden. All I showed is that it is tournament viable.

There are many other chars that turn their unsafe mixups into a safe one with OS. It's how the game is, start practicing them.

 

[Shark Tank]

Again, rushdown cariation. Seems like good design to me. Or should it be easy to get the rushdown char off you? Maybe it should be easy to rushdown a zoner? Or to zone a counter zoner? Raiden is a balanced strong character outside of his OS.

It shouldn't be necessarily "easy" to get in on someone good at controlling space but in this game it is because garbage frames and run. And the risk reward is also incredibly skewed. But yeah full screen wall carries into 50/50 safe setplay with high damage isn't particularly good design.

 

[RiBBz22]

I am the king of loving dumb stuff, but Raiden's f1 is pretty dumb the way it is right now. We will see what happens with it and if it gets tweaked.

 

[Bender]

The problem with the F12 (aside from a 6 frame mid hitting string, which no other character comes close to having) is the amount of pushback. Raiden can just back dash and avoid repercussions. Actually I find myself getting punished trying to find some way to get my own punish off.

I'd make this shit hit high or make it have 0 pushback, or make it an 8 frame attack.

His reset is pretty ridiculous too and combined with his "safe" and high damage mixups, I think he is in a tier of his own: Raiden Tier

 

[CJKRattlehead]

People in this thread make it sound like raiden OS is something unique to the char. Many unsafe mixups become safe with OS, not just raiden. All I showed is that it is tournament viable.

There are many other chars that turn their unsafe mixups into a safe one with OS. It's how the game is, start practicing them.

yes and they all should be removed.

 

[Zoidberg747]

Can we talk about Raiden's weaknesses ? I think his footsie game is kind of wack. And his low pokes still whatever.

I dont think you can have one of the best whiff punishes in the game and have poor footsies. Jmo

 

[AK Harold]

People in this thread make it sound like raiden OS is something unique to the char. Many unsafe mixups become safe with OS, not just raiden. All I showed is that it is tournament viable.

There are many other chars that turn their unsafe mixups into a safe one with OS. It's how the game is, start practicing them.

This would mean these players would have to focus on winning now with the tools given. That is just unfair.

 

[Levaranoia]

Scorpion mains and Raiden mains will defend their character to the death....

 

[CliffP]

isn't a vortex where you are forced to guess and can't armour out don't like hearing that term applied to raiden.

Pretty sure the F12 is like +15.
As far as I know you can't press anything but block.

Just tested it and you literally have like 2 frames to input an armored move but ONLY in the instance they follow up with B2 overhead AND they miss a few frames in between, so basically only if the Raiden player makes a mistake.

 

[Zoidberg747]

Pretty sure the F12 is like +15.
As far as I know you can't press anything but block.

Just tested it and you literally have like 2 frames to input an armored move but ONLY in the instance they follow up with B2 overhead AND they miss a few frames in between, so basically only if the Raiden player makes a mistake.

Still isnt technically a vortex because wouldnt he run out of stamina eventually? I honestly don't know now that I think about it, never seen someone go for the fireball restand over and over.

 

[CliffP]

People in this thread make it sound like raiden OS is something unique to the char. Many unsafe mixups become safe with OS, not just raiden. All I showed is that it is tournament viable.

There are many other chars that turn their unsafe mixups into a safe one with OS. It's how the game is, start practicing them.

Firstly, that would be cool if everyone had amazing option selects.

Secondly, I highly doubt that option selects were the intent of the dev team. They already removed the universal ones.

Lastly, I personally feel that option selects throw the foundation of this game's philosophy out the window, the overhead was ostensibly designed to lead to huge damage and pressure especially in the corner with the drawback being it's huge risk/reward.


But on the other hand, to support your argument, this game is ridiculously pro bully and OS strings support that mentality of "don't get bullied or you lose"

 

[ShaolinGunFu]

Yeah. His f12b2 string is the WHOLE reason to play thunder god raiden. Let's see what your argument is.

Its the best reason, but he also can cancel his fireball, has other TD only strings especially the low starter, and he has higher damage overall (displacer gets big ones if you waste tons of meter on EX teles mid combo but TD has highest practical combos)

I still main displacer though, suits me better.

 

[brizzle]

Is it the 6 frame mid that is bothering people or the 9 frame gap in between strings? What if it was 7f f1 and f1,2 was -2? Or 8/-1? Or 9/0? Look at jhonny fisticuff. B1,2 is 9 frame start up mid and 0 on block. Essentially the same thing yet that's fine. I don't care about the speed of F1. I just want that pressure off of the 9 frame window to punish. I feel he needs that. He doesn't necessarily need a 6f mid. He definitely doesn't need the OS

 

[Dizzy]

Firstly, that would be cool if everyone had amazing option selects.

Secondly, I highly doubt that option selects were the intent of the dev team. They already removed the universal ones.

Lastly, I personally feel that option selects throw the foundation of this game's philosophy out the window, the overhead was ostensibly designed to lead to huge damage and pressure especially in the corner with the drawback being it's huge risk/reward.


But on the other hand, to support your argument, this game is ridiculously pro bully and OS strings support that mentality of "don't get bullied or you lose"

I didn't make an argument, it was just a statement. I am opposed to option selects in general, but that doesn't mean I won't use them. I heavily used OS in KI as well. If they are in the game, they should be used if you want to maximize the potential of your character.

Furthermore, my point was that many characters with unsafe mix ups can utilize option selects to make them safe, not just Raiden. Some off the top of my head are Mileena, Erron, Ermac, Scorpion, Kitana...list goes on and on.

 

[ericscissorkick]

oh raiden won another tournment. Better nerf him.

Oh erron black won another tournament. Better leave him alone.

This community is hilarious