General/Other - Johnny Cage Johnny Cage General Discussion Thread

[Mikemetroid]

Moved to General Thread

 

[Shade667]

I struggle with the nut punch cuz of its backwards input.

Also didnt know I couldnt make a thread for a vid. Thats what we do in the Ferra Torr forum but I know for next time.

 

[Wrath0594]

Only real weakness he has is getting zoned hard.

 

[smokey]

Only real weakness he has is getting zoned hard.

Luckily stages are pretty small in this game, I dont have much problem with walking people to the corner if they try to zone you. You have to read them using the stage to jump over you and put them back in the corner. Stunt double shadow kicks give you something to run in behind but they dont hit full screen, but they are + on block.

Fisticuffs/A list green balls are also a really good projectile, so people have to move forward to get under its arc. In fisticuffs variation you get increased chip damage on bf1, so even blocking your balls can be a problem for people.

 

[Movieland KerrHolden]

Only real weakness he has is getting zoned hard.

stunt double can zone pretty well - clone shadow kick is too fast too react to from a lot of ranges, can be pretty hard to jump over, faster then most projectiles.

only lasts so long to obviously, but is good considering the fact you probably don't want to be long range zoning people for too long in this game

 

[Bryck Walle]

stunt double can zone pretty well - clone shadow kick is too fast too react to from a lot of ranges, can be pretty hard to jump over, faster then most projectiles.

only lasts so long tho, obviously

I was playing against Wrath earlier this morning around the time of that post. We did a few Johnny/Johnny mirrors and then he wanted me to play his Liu kang to see how I handled the match up vs how he handles it. Needless to say, zoning is a big deal against Johnny. Yeah you can use the shadows to close the gap, but what happens when they knock you back full screen? I had trouble against a competent Liu, imagine how I feel playing good Quan Chi's.

 

[Tenryuga]

How often should I use F2,4? I feel like I am going about playing the character wrong since I am using lows like D3/D4 more often than 11 strings and trying to force a mixup between the low and F2,4 when at advantage.

Also is there a list of the frame advantage johnny is at when mimic cancelling strings / pokes? More specifically 114, F3, D4, and B34.

 

[Movieland KerrHolden]

I was playing against Wrath earlier this morning around the time of that post. We did a few Johnny/Johnny mirrors and then he wanted me to play his Liu kang to see how I handled the match up vs how he handles it. Needless to say, zoning is a big deal against Johnny. Yeah you can use the shadows to close the gap, but what happens when they knock you back full screen? I had trouble against a competent Liu, imagine how I feel playing good Quan Chi's.

yeah looking back i kinda misread it - i agree other then basic block/run cancel strats he has problems with getting zoned, i misinterpreted it as suggesting he doesn't have many zoning options, which i think he does decently in. I could see him having problems against peeps with BETTER zoning.

still tho, in this game, having problems against characters with good zoning isn't huge since run cancel is universal and pree good against most patterns

 

[Wrath0594]

How often should I use F2,4? I feel like I am going about playing the character wrong since I am using lows like D3/D4 more often than 11 strings and trying to force a mixup between the low and F2,4 when at advantage.

Also is there a list of the frame advantage johnny is at when mimic cancelling strings / pokes? More specifically 114, F3, D4, and B34.

Use F24 as often as they will possibly let you. Why not? It's your main launcher, has good reach, and it's safe on block. Sets up a good frame trap to stop counter poking. Can be mimic canceled etc. etc.

The only time you can really take advantage of 11 is after a nutpunch, which you definitely should. Other than that, it's hard to just throw out because of it's extremely short range. I don't know the exact frames, but 114 is the hardest to armor out of, then b34, then f3, then d4 if you mean how fast the shadow kick comes out.

I'm pretty sure none of them completely jail, but 114 only has a few frames to squeeze out armor. I'll prolly start using it out of nutpunch whenever PC gets the friggin patch (it won't).

 

[lostwin1]

Any tips to improve my game? started using johnny today and i need help to learn how to use him properly and what are my mistakes.
I'll take him has a alt main, my principal is ermac (really like high risk-reward gameplan)

Here's one fight, gonna upload more tomorrow:

 

[Bryck Walle]

Any tips to improve my game? started using johnny today and i need help to learn how to use him properly and what are my mistakes.
I'll take him has a alt main, my principal is ermac (really like high risk-reward gameplan)

Here's one fight, gonna upload more tomorrow:

First off.....Stop using Ninja Mime. That skin is ass.

On a real note, it might be better if you showed us a video where you actually struggled. You showing us how you scrubbed out a Raiden with B12 constantly doesn't really give us anything to help you with.

From what I saw though, the few times you could do a corner combo, you dropped it. Also, point blank F24's don't really work against people who expect it. You need to condition them into blocking low so you can land it and get damage.

 

[Phosferrax]

Use F24 as often as they will possibly let you. Why not? It's your main launcher, has good reach, and it's safe on block. Sets up a good frame trap to stop counter poking. Can be mimic canceled etc. etc.

The only time you can really take advantage of 11 is after a nutpunch, which you definitely should. Other than that, it's hard to just throw out because of it's extremely short range. I don't know the exact frames, but 114 is the hardest to armor out of, then b34, then f3, then d4 if you mean how fast the shadow kick comes out.

I'm pretty sure none of them completely jail, but 114 only has a few frames to squeeze out armor. I'll prolly start using it out of nutpunch whenever PC gets the friggin patch (it won't).

All of those options jail into a mimic cancel apart from D4~Rising Shadow.

 

[D_Matt_Ma]

Anyone feel that the stunt double variation just flat out crushes the other 2? Fisticuffs is really natural to me

 

[Phosferrax]

Sidenote, why does the shadow kick glow red sometimes?

Whenever JC has 5% or less health he gets a damage buff to some specials, and all his green moves turn red to indicate it.

 

[Name v.5.0]

First off.....Stop using Ninja Mime. That skin is ass.

Johnny has 4 skins and the best one is his default. I don't love any of them to be honest.

 

[Gravelands]

Anyone feel that the stunt double variation just flat out crushes the other 2? Fisticuffs is really natural to me

I feel like Stunt Double is the go-to variation for most folks because of the damage, but the handful of A-listers out there who have the cancels down to a T just absolutely decimate me with pressure. Cage's d1 and his knee are just ruthless.

 

[D_Matt_Ma]

So stunt double and A-list are the go to variations. Fisticuffs feels the easiest. I take it that ease comes at the price of being the weakest?

 

[smokey]

Dont even think its worth rating the variations against each other in order to pick one. Different matches call for different types of "pressure" and being proficient with all 3 variations means you can swap between to mix up the way the opponent needs to defend against you to survive. This isnt just character dependant but opponent dependant. Swapping variations against someone changes the flow of your offence dramatically.

Stunt double - Block stun + frames, big corner carry and huge damage. Fairly straight forward to play against but has great tricks and punishment.

A-list - Mind games, Cancels. Hit confirms from f3/b3. Doesnt have the same damage, but has a whole new array of mixups with the cancels. shadow kick cancel is a gold mine waiting to be tapped into. Also the nutpunch EX is pretty tricky.

Fisticuffs - Reaction pressure. Tests people to see if they can get out of block pressure, and punishes them heavily if they cant. B12 being 0 and b1212~ is -2 lets you mix up the timing for them to let go of block or armour out. A few frames slow on the reaction and they are getting d3/d4 back in, release block early you get nutted. Good chip and is a frustrating variation to fight against.

Over all i would say for an "all around" variation A-list has the best pressure because its more free form with where you can go in your pressure, but if someones getting opened up easily SD will kill them faster, and if they are relying on heavy blocking then fisticuffs will threaten them. Very tough call though.

 

[Name v.5.0]

Dont even think its worth rating the variations against each other in order to pick one. Different matches call for different types of "pressure" and being proficient with all 3 variations means you can swap between to mix up the way the opponent needs to defend against you to survive. This isnt just character dependant but opponent dependant. Swapping variations against someone changes the flow of your offence dramatically.

Stunt double - Block stun + frames, big corner carry and huge damage. Fairly straight forward to play against but has great tricks and punishment.

A-list - Mind games, Cancels. Hit confirms from f3/b3. Doesnt have the same damage, but has a whole new array of mixups with the cancels. shadow kick cancel is a gold mine waiting to be tapped into. Also the nutpunch EX is pretty tricky.

Fisticuffs - Reaction pressure. Tests people to see if they can get out of block pressure, and punishes them heavily if they cant. B12 being 0 and b1212~ is -2 lets you mix up the timing for them to let go of block or armour out. A few frames slow on the reaction and they are getting d3/d4 back in, release block early you get nutted. Good chip and is a frustrating variation to fight against.

Over all i would say for an "all around" variation A-list has the best pressure because its more free form with where you can go in your pressure, but if someones getting opened up easily SD will kill them faster, and if they are relying on heavy blocking then fisticuffs will threaten them. Very tough call though.

I feel like SD is all around more versatile. The better wake ups, zoning and chip damage seem to tip the scales for me.

 

[smokey]

I feel like SD is all around more versatile. The better wake ups, zoning and chip damage seem to tip the scales for me.

I agree wake ups better but his fb and shadowkick are highs. Also fifisticuffs b12 string is 0.5 or 1% chip per hit and you get 5 at a time and are only -2, tough call on that.

 

[Movieland KerrHolden]

I feel like SD is all around more versatile. The better wake ups, zoning and chip damage seem to tip the scales for me.

better wakeups till you have clones :<

 

[Audit]

better wakeups till you have clones :<

This. The clones really screw me up when I'm pressured in the corner on wakeup. they're looking for ex nut punch, the kick doesn't get me out of the corner under their NJP when they bait it, and the shadow uppercut gets stuffed. Block and I'm looking at a 50/50.

 

[Name v.5.0]

This. The clones really screw me up when I'm pressured in the corner on wakeup. they're looking for ex nut punch, the kick doesn't get me out of the corner under their NJP when they bait it, and the shadow uppercut gets stuffed. Block and I'm looking at a 50/50.

Till I get clones? I meant when you have clones out you can actually use clone shadow kick as wakeup instead of using armor. There's always going to be mind games on any wake up. None is ever free. Scout the NJP. Stupid assholes always go for it. I usually block it and throw them into the corner as fast as I can.

 

[Movieland KerrHolden]

Till I get clones? I meant when you have clones out you can actually use clone shadow kick as wakeup instead of using armor. There's always going to be mind games on any wake up. None is ever free. Scout the NJP. Stupid assholes always go for it. I usually block it and throw them into the corner as fast as I can.

as far as i can tell, all clone moves can be stuffed on wakeup when an attack is meaty enough. in a game where any moment where you are forcing someone to make a decision has very harsh results, having bad wakeup options in a moment is a bigger deal then you are making it out to be.

i agree tho that there is always stuff you can do, and its important to stay patient, but you its defo a disadvantage

 

[Audit]

Till I get clones? I meant when you have clones out you can actually use clone shadow kick as wakeup instead of using armor. There's always going to be mind games on any wake up. None is ever free. Scout the NJP. Stupid assholes always go for it. I usually block it and throw them into the corner as fast as I can.

It's really just me not having put enough time in to adjust and find options. Plus I've played JC since MK1, so there's quite a bit of muscle memory to overcome when I think I can get out of the corner free with a SK!