General/Other - Johnny Cage Johnny Cage General Discussion Thread

[STRYKIE]

I'll go out on a limb and say this could be worth a shot.

But...

Make it Fisticuffs exclusive.

Think about it.

 

[Name v.5.0]

Nutpunch as a low could possibly make him OP since Johnny hasn't had more than a month of play time. However, I would suggest tweaking the EX Nut Punch. It should either have enough push back to make it almost totally safe, or they should take the damn gap out from between the 2 hits. Either change would make 1,1,3 safer. This would allow us to use it more often, giving us a more real mix up, that's balanced because it costs meter.

And how about an anti air option beyond d4 to evade? Yeah. That'd be nice.

 

[RM Truth]

You have D4 tho.

 

[Epy69zSmallBoys]

You have D4 tho.

Yeah, but that an Ex-nut is about all he's got. Just compare his tools to others in this roster: Insanely unsafe specials, no dive kick, no teleport, no 50/50, no parry, no command grab, no low starter, only 1 forward advancing 2 hit string that if completed or not is very unsafe, pressure that can be poked out/armoured easily, no reliable anti-air, jip is weak...I think he needs this.

 

[Frosted 57]

I believe that all characters at this point are viable, however yes I see Johnny being at the lower end of that. However making Nut Punch a low isn't what he needs, that's a gimmick and he has those. Where he needs help would be in the anti-air and punishing departments. His fastest punish is 9f with virtually no range and his fastest specials are 11f. So any move that is -10 is pretty much safe against him. I however do not know what to change to help him in these areas with out going to far.

I think a big change he needs is for Ex Shadow Kick to hit mid. Outside of that there are some variation specific things he could use.

Fisticuffs could use Fist Bump to have a faster start up, or at least also deal some amount of additional damage on hit. I would also like Flip kick to become a usable special that actually does something.
Stunt Double mainly I want the hitbox on the clones to be more consistent since the first and second ones hit differently. Especially with 113 into mimic rising shadow... just make it consistent in some way.
A-list I honestly don't know.

 

[RiBBz22]

Cool, I am fine with Cassie's nut punch being a low.

 

[DevilMaySpy]

Make it Fisticuffs exclusive.

Think about it.

I agree with this. It would be too much in the other variations. Otherwise, give Cassie a low nutpunch as well. She needs it

.

 

[GTDoffen]

Give every character and their mother a great 50/50 while you are at it...

 

[Epy69zSmallBoys]

I agree with this. It would be too much in the other variations. Otherwise, give Cassie a low nutpunch as well. She needs it

.

lol at Cassie needing anything.

 

[mrKrucifix]

1) The high-mid-low string you're talking about is 113. 114 is high-mid-mid (even tho the last mid whiffs on crouching smaller opponents).

2) Johnny's fine as is. He has ways of keeping himself safe and his mix up game is deceptively strong. You just have to go about playing him a little differently than most of the cast. Johnny has to condition his opponent to act a certain way, and then punish them for it later. He doesn't need a low starter, it would be nice, but he doesn't need it.

 

[Epy69zSmallBoys]

Give every character and their mother a great 50/50 while you are at it...

Well we are almost there, so why not? If everyone is God Tier, then no one is overpowered.

 

[GTDoffen]

Well we are almost there, so why not? If everyone is God Tier, then no one is overpowered.

I do not want MKX to be a game where 50/50 guesses are the most rewarding style of play at a a high level. Spacing, frametraps, conditioning, zoning etc I think should also have a big part in competitive.

You should be rewarded with pressure or a 50/50 for good play in neutral, but I think the 50/50s that lead to big damage should have a risk to them. Just my thought though.

 

[Movieland KerrHolden]

i can't help but notice that people on this forum have a hard time with understanding the very important difference between:

" GOOD CHARACTER"

and

"HIGH TIER CHARACTER"

 

[Marte]

Give him back the "oooooh" after the nutpunch, that's all he needs.

 

[Skkra]

Give the game time. JC is very technical. Its going to likely be a little bit before people truly figure out how to play all matchups with him.

 

[Epy69zSmallBoys]

I do not want MKX to be a game where 50/50 guesses are the most rewarding style of play at a a high level. Spacing, frametraps, conditioning, zoning etc I think should also have a big part in competitive.

You should be rewarded with pressure or a 50/50 for good play in neutral, but I think the 50/50s that lead to big damage should have a risk to them. Just my thought though.

The difference with this (wish list) 50/50 compared to other character's, is that if you block the low Nutshot you would get a full combo punish. High risk/High reward

 

[smokey]

Hes fine and low nut wouldnt even help, he doesnt have a 50/50 and giving him low nut wouldnt give him a 50/50 unless you are gonna walk up and nut them or start cancelling d1/d3/d4. F2x nut might be alright online, or if someones never seen the matchup?
Just level up bro.

 

[Mikemetroid]

no buff/nerf threads.

Discuss his weaknesses in the general discussion thread please.

 

[Epy69zSmallBoys]

Hes fine and low nut wouldnt even help, he doesnt have a 50/50 and giving him low nut wouldnt give him a 50/50 unless you are gonna walk up and nut them or start cancelling d1/d3/d4. F2x nut might be alright online, or if someones never seen the matchup?
Just level up bro.

1. It would help his wake up game immensely
2. B3,4,3 ends in an overhead, this way it could end in a low. That is a 50/50, and would actually give us Cage mains a valid reason to use this string, except when trying to chip you out for a kill.
3. The threat of F2, Nut would be amazing. Then we could: F2,4 F2, Throw F2,Nut F2,pause,F2 F2,Ex-Nut

 

[Phosferrax]

Guys plz... Nut punch as a low? Ex nut punch being safe? Get real, this character is absolutely fine and art this point doesn't need anything.

 

[Snaaaake]

Honest question: would it be too much to make any of the following changes to JC's flip kick?

Option 1: EX flip kick starts a combo.
Option 2: EX flip kick is now safe. Possibly +1 / +2?
Option 3: For A-list - flip kick can now be meter burned during charge, just like the nut punch. (Broken?)

Maybe i'm just dumb but I don't see any use for the flip kick at all in its current state. What do you guys think of these ideas?

 

[kelevra]

Look DJT playing Fistcuffs JC, so much fun lol!

Man DJT's fistycage made me lose my shit. I really laughed my ass off.
And imo ya'll gotta chill. Johnny doesnt need a True 50/50. Hes fine the way he is.

 

[smokey]

1. It would help his wake up game immensely
2. B3,4,3 ends in an overhead, this way it could end in a low. That is a 50/50, and would actually give us Cage mains a valid reason to use this string, except when trying to chip you out for a kill.
3. The threat of F2, Nut would be amazing. Then we could: F2,4 F2, Throw F2,Nut F2,pause,F2 F2,Ex-Nut

The threat of nut would just mean people duck after every normal on block including F2. Anything being ticked into F2 you could poke out, armour out, jump out or just stand up and dial a combo in his face, cos if youre doing f2~f2 on block, well, youre doing f2 on block.

 

[Wrath0594]

Block pressure with clones and mimic cancels is beautiful. Like people are saying, he's good, just not braindead like a lot of top tiers. You actually have to think and condition the opponent when using Johnny, instead of throwing out + moves and flipping coins. Biggest reason I've invested so much time into Johnny and all but dropped Cassie (I now realize I need her in the pretty much unwinnable Grand Master MU)
DX

 

[Wrath0594]

Also how fast is his f3? I thought it was 9 frames. Unless I'm wrong, that's a solid punish since A List can combo it using run cancel and Stunt Double combos it with a single clone for at least 26%.