General/Other - Johnny Cage Johnny Cage General Discussion Thread

[Bryck Walle]

Playing Johnny almost exclusively the past few weeks I've noticed a few things about him.

1.) His F2 has a longer range than people think. You can use this in a footsies battle and land it a lot more than you'd think.

2.) His mix up game "as stated before" is deceptively strong. Land a combo into nutpunch. Pressure with 11. From there you can 11 again to condition your opponent to look for that specifically. Then the mix up comes in. You can end the 11 string with 3 for a low and get a full combo in both A-List OR Stunt Double (I don't play Fisticuffs). You can also not do the 3 and instead go for the safe F2 4 string after the 11. If your opponent is looking for the 3 you'll get a full combo. OR you can 11 tick throw. His mix ups are there. They're not super OP like other characters in the sense that you actually have to think about what you want to do.

3.) Johnny is a standing reset monster. If you're willing to use both Mimics in a combo you can easily get 37% meterless midscreen into a standing reset, back into the mixups I stated before. If you want to use meter you can get 45% with an ex NP mid screen.

4.) If you're not throwing it out willy nilly, you can catch people with your F3 in a footsies battle. It has deceptive range on it and it leads to good damage options.

5.) One of Johnny's main plus' is he's great at interrupting, interruptable strings. One bar will get you an EX NP in a gapped string into an easy 25%+ combo that ends in a np.

Johnny isn't OP, but he's not bad either. People have to think when they play against him, just like YOU have to think when you play him. He's a very high risk high reward character and I F*ing love that.

Side Note : Please for the love of GOD let him get a JCVD skin from Bloodsport!

 

[Epy69zSmallBoys]

Also how fast is his f3? I thought it was 9 frames. Unless I'm wrong, that's a solid punish since A List can combo it using run cancel and Stunt Double combos it with a single clone for at least 26%.

It's 11 frames, and Negative 10 on block :/

 

[Rodney Quillz]

It's 11 frames, and Negative 10 on block :/

It's -8 on block which is ridiculous but then with a lot of variations you can make it safe, I think in one of the variations probably a list, that it should be quicker though like 9 frames.

Like I said before a list ex flip kick should cause juggle state because no one is everyone to be hit by a fully charged flip kick lol, and it would make people actually think about doing usual braindead cross up jump/jump ins when he has meter.

 

[Epy69zSmallBoys]

It's -8 on block which is ridiculous but then with a lot of variations you can make it safe, I think in one of the variations probably a list, that it should be quicker though like 9 frames.

Like I said before a list ex flip kick should cause juggle state because no one is everyone to be hit by a fully charged flip kick lol, and it would make people actually think about doing usual braindead cross up jump/jump ins when he has meter.

I hate cross ups in this game, I see them coming from a mile away and I either block and try my luck with a mix up, or try to punish and get hit. Every. Single. Time.

 

[Wrath0594]

Even at 11, I don't think it hurts him that bad. I mean a Takdeda just made it top 8 at Combo Breaker and I doubt he has a punish that's faster than that.

 

[#GreenHalo]

Why is JC's offense 1 dimensional, and why do his jump ins suck so badly? I like this character, but why is he so absurdly subpar to the majority of the cast?

 

[Rodney Quillz]

Even at 11, I don't think it hurts him that bad. I mean a Takdeda just made it top 8 at Combo Breaker and I doubt he has a punish that's faster than that.

If it's 11 then why is it negative 8 while Kano has a similar normal that's negative 5?

 

[Wrath0594]

If it's 11 then why is it negative 8 while Kano has a similar normal that's negative 5?

Johnny's not Kano... He doesn't need every tool. And it's not like you'll ever have a reason to throw out a raw f3 when he has f3skc and clone sk, both of which are + on block. Even f34 can be turned into a frame trap with ex np that even beats 6 frame d1's.

Seems like some people won't be satisfied till Johnny gets a 5 frame reversal, safe 50/50's, and Erron Black's wakeups.

Some of the suggestions here are getting ridiculous.

 

[MrMaxAwesome]

Just wanna ask do we already know about F2,4, D1, F2,4, D1, F3xxEXBD3, rc 12, F3xxBD3 for 38%
High Damage for a non stunt double combo.
39% with Jump in
Not Sure but possible 40% or something if you can somehow manage another 12 after the first. Not sure if that's possible though.

 

[Rodney Quillz]

Johnny's not Kano... He doesn't need every tool. And it's not like you'll ever have a reason to throw out a raw f3 when he has f3skc and clone sk, both of which are + on block. Even f34 can be turned into a frame trap with ex np that even beats 6 frame d1's.

Seems like some people won't be satisfied till Johnny gets a 5 frame reversal, safe 50/50's, and Erron Black's wakeups.

Some of the suggestions here are getting ridiculous.

I don't see anything wrong with anything I suggested, and I don't see anything ridiculous at all, the only thing I see is people trying to up play this character so he stays mediocre.

 

[Red King]

I hate cross ups in this game, I see them coming from a mile away and I either block and try my luck with a mix up, or try to punish and get hit. Every. Single. Time.

Have you tried just walking forward when you know the cross-up is coming? You can usually do this on reaction and make the jumping punch whiff for a punish.

 

[Tenryuga]

Has anyone been having the following issue?

Whenever I try to do F24, D1, 4 xx mimic rising shadow there will be times where instead of getting rising shadow I get mimic clone setup. This doesn't make any sense to me as the buttons for both are different.

 

[smokey]

Has anyone been having the following issue?

Whenever I try to do F24, D1, 4 xx mimic rising shadow there will be times where instead of getting rising shadow I get mimic clone setup. This doesn't make any sense to me as the buttons for both are different.

In your control settings there is an option "release check" what this does is it counts your button releases as inputs, which is why doing 4db quickly will give you the mimic. Be cleaner and not rush your inputs, or just turn it off.

 

[Tenryuga]

In your control settings there is an option "release check" what this does is it counts your button releases as inputs, which is why doing 4db quickly will give you the mimic. Be cleaner and not rush your inputs, or just turn it off.

Thanks. I think I'll turn it off since I'm more used to cancel systems of other 2D FG's.

 

[smokey]

Thanks. I think I'll turn it off since I'm more used to cancel systems of other 2D FG's.

Just a heads up that some other games have this on default like street fighter 4, so it could end up screwing you up more than it helps you.

 

[Wrath0594]

I don't see anything wrong with anything I suggested, and I don't see anything ridiculous at all, the only thing I see is people trying to up play this character so he stays mediocre.

I main Johnny, dude. Dropped Cass for him. T__T

Your posts echo the how the board felt during week 1. I really think you just don't fully understand his strengths yet.

 

[Tenryuga]

Just a heads up that some other games have this on default like street fighter 4, so it could end up screwing you up more than it helps you.

Alright I gotcha. It's strange though; I don't seem to have this issue in that game. Anyway I'll keep that in mind and just adjust my timing. Thanks again!

 

[Bryck Walle]

Alright I gotcha. It's strange though; I don't seem to have this issue in that game. Anyway I'll keep that in mind and just adjust my timing. Thanks again!

The issue is there, it's just the timing in this game compared to that is different.
The issue you're having is called "negative edge" where you hold a button and do the inputs and let go of said button. Voila move comes out.
Example. Street Fighter Ryu. Fireball is Down D/F Forward Punch. You can hold Punch then do the inputs. Let go of punch afterwards. Voila move comes out.
MKX has the same thing with "release check". Difference between the 2 games is the time you have to release the button is longer in MKX. Hence why it comes out way more often than it should.

 

[Movieland KerrHolden]

So for clone management:

Midscreen
Currently, if mid screen, I'll use BF4 clones pretty freely to establish dominance in neutral - I don't really worry about saving them because the utility you get out of them is very high in neutral situation. Really makes people cautious about rushing in willy nilly, and after a while they will be conditioned to respect them just by their presence.

In a combo midscreen, I only ever use one clone. I find the extra damage you get out of a second one makes it not really worth using the clone. If its corner push your after, the general 1 bar 2 clone push of [starter xx db1 clone run f3 xx db1 run f3 xx ex nut punch stuff] can be changed to [starter xx ex db1 run run run run run run run run run run f3 xx nutpunch/shadowkick/4]

this gives you better corner push for less resource and yeah, less damage, but you are where you want to be for less cost and its easier to boot.

Corner
Sort of an opposite approach to midscreen - smoke 'em if ya got 'em

The problem with clones in corner is that if your opponent makes a good read and reverses the momentum of the situation, you can very easily find yourself switching positions with them and then you are in the corner. This is a problem because when clones are active, you essentially lose your two best reversal options as shadow upper and shadow kick lose their armor when clones are present, leaving you only with exnutpunch which is not the greatest as a wakeup move (gets njp'd for free). Midscreen you at least still have backdash.

Because of this, I think the optimal and safest thing to do is use the clones as soon as possible if you find yourself in the corner with them. This is still great for JC, of course, since the damage you get off using more clones in a combo is significantly higher than it is midscreen.

I either do one of the following:

If my opponent is ~50% or less, I go for an easy 50% 1 bar 2 clone combo. You can get this off of just about any confirm in the corner (113, f24, d4 ~ f3 frametrap) as long as you have the resources. If they have significantly more then 50%, then occasionally I go for a 1 bar 1 clone combo for ~40%, end in nutpunch, jumpback, and do an immediate cloned bf4 meaty on their wake up. If they try and reversal, it will eat the armor and give you a punish, if they block you can run in for a free mixup and score another easy 30% at least (70% overall!!!), if they try and jump out/escape, they get smacked by the clone and are stuck in the corner.



none of this is absolute of course, just some stuff ive been doing in certain situations to make most of the clones. clone managment is key to winning with stunt double, and its good to have different plays/sequences worked out to make the most of them

 

[Gilky]

In regards to anti-airs with Johnny, I find that going air-to-air with jump 1 is the best option. As soon as you see them jump, you do a jump 1 on reaction. Then you can run cancel into a combo ending in nut punch which let's you start your mix up game.

The combo I'm doing right now is:

Jump 1 > RC > F24 > D1 > F3 > Nutpunch

If you have mimics up, the combo is even easier, since you don't need to run cancel. You can just do:

Jump 1 > F3 xx Mimic Rising Shadow > F3 > Nutpunch.

In each of these combos, you can use EX Nut punch instead for extra damage and corner carry. You can also use more than one mimic in the stunt double combo for the same reason. It takes a bit of practice for the timing but I feel this is his easiest and most reliable anti-air. Plus it gets you a full combo into a standing reset.

 

[Drew Grimey]

lol @ people saying Johnny is fine and doesn't need anything... Some of you obviously have a hard time comparing the "tools" of each character.

 

[kelevra]

Imo its not about the tools. The game is just way to young to suggest buffs/nerfs imo.

 

[Bryck Walle]

lol @ people saying Johnny is fine and doesn't need anything... Some of you obviously have a hard time comparing the "tools" of each character.

Not saying he's fine. Just saying A.) it's too early to ask for buffs when no one has really fleshed ANY character out. B.) He's not as bad as everyone thinks he is. Is he Top 3? Def not. But he holds his own against most of the cast and can pressure like a crazy man.

 

[Shade667]

Whats up guys? I made a combo video for Stunt double johnny cage. Im not that great with him in actual games (only been playing him for a few days) but I love his combos (spent about 7 hours in the lab with him just doing combos).

Some of these arent too practical, but theyre realistic (aka no fancy 3 bar 40%'s just cuz they look cool)
Hope you enjoy!

(lemme know if the embed doesnt work)

 

[Red King]

Not bad! You should always try to end with nut punch though otherwise it's a wasted opportunity for a restand.