Question - Summoner Is this character overly downplayed?

[legion666]

Ok I didn't see that, I thought you were genuinely using that as a reason that QC's vortex is fine as is. Whether it is or not people can debate, but you can see how I would think that anyone saying something like this is just blatantly downplaying lol

I see it now!!!! I was like WTF?!? Why am I so wrong about that macro shit when this guy brought it up first?!?) I thought I must have been clueless about how it really works if it made everyone crack. Turns out I was right after all to treat nonsense with nonsense))))

 

[Rude]

15 frames is reactable. The cusp of being reactable is like 13-15 frames. It's hard yes but it's definitely doable.

Absolutely not.

Show me footage of you blocking Smoke's 15 frame OH 10/10 times in a match.

 

[Phosferrax]

"This thread/site is garbage"

"Bro 15f is reactable"

....

 

[JDM]

NRS community is so scrubby lmao

 

[Rude]

NRS community is so scrubby lmao

Because you, a fequent poster who has undoubtedly bought and plays this game regularly aren't a part of the community, right?

Do you realize that if 13-15 frames were 100% reactable, that most of the characters in this game wouldn't have 50/50s?

Is it possible that you're confusing making a read to a reaction? It's a common mistake.

Still waiting on that footage of you blocking Smoke's OH 10/10 times.

 

[GuerillaTactix]

He is broken. If you cant see that you are either biased or a scrub. And is not like all characters can abuse his lack of a good wakeup or fast armor. Mileena certainly cant.

I agree. The top characters complain amongst themselves about who's broker while the bottom 10-15 can't hold a candle to any of those assholes. Quan Chi's vortex is broke. His damage is broke. He get's block infinited? Fine give him a faster poke. Or nerf the other guy. Quan Chi's offense is like a dream inside of a dream inside of a dream inside of a dream. People need to wake up.

 

[JDM]

First off, I said it's reactable, not that *I* personally can 100 percent react to it every time. I know people who can react to 15 frames moves with relative ease (alucard for one, his reactions are incredible), so don't tell me it's impossible when I know there are people who can react to it.

It's on the cusp of being reactable, never did I say it was easy or 100 percent guaranteed.

 

[JDM]

His vortex is only "broke" if you don't know how to fight it. Take him into training mode and see how quick you can realize what he's doing. Or, just complain for patches like this community always does.

Quan Chi, who can get bullied and nearly block infinited by most of the cast, people complain about him cause he has a vortex that's incredibly unsafe and newsflash: most top quans don't even use it in tournament because they know it's a gimmick. A strong gimmick, yes, but a gimmick nonetheless.

 

[Rude]

First off, I said it's reactable, not that *I* personally can 100 percent react to it every time. I know people who can react to 15 frames moves with relative ease (alucard for one, his reactions are incredible), so don't tell me it's impossible when I know there are people who can react to it.

It's on the cusp of being reactable, never did I say it was easy or 100 percent guaranteed.

So Alucard never has to guess on Quan's 50/50, right?

Since he can "react" to the overhead 100% of the time.

 

[JDM]

So Alucard never has to guess on Quan's 50/50, right?

Since he can "react" to the overhead 100% of the time.

Let me ask you this, what do YOU consider reactable? 17 frames? Is it really so hard to believe someone can react 2 frames faster than the normal person? He's got great reactions.

Will he 100 percent block it every single time? No, of course not, but you don't necessarily block everything you can react to anyways, he could be expecting a throw or something else, you never know.

 

[Rude]

Let me ask you this, what do YOU consider reactable? 17 frames? Is it really so hard to believe someone can react 2 frames faster than the normal person? He's got great reactions.

Will he 100 percent block it every single time? No, of course not, but you don't necessarily block everything you can react to anyways, he could be expecting a throw or something else, you never know.

Even if he is reacting to it, he's an exception that proves the rule.

If, as you say, normal people cannot react to it, then it is not something that is reactable by the majority of players and thus, shouldn't enter into the conversation of balancing the character.

Isn't it also possible that even top players confuse making a read to a pure reaction? It happens all the time.

 

[Deleted member 9158]

I'm playing Warlock more and more these days.

I think it's a good variation. There are a couple things I'd like to see changed, but most of it is luxury buffs.

To get back on topic, if they adjusted the link so that a 1-frame gap is possible, Quan would be fine.

But nerfing the rune or making low bat hit mid is crazy talk.

Warlock is slept on. Mained him day 1.

If anything, a universal buff for quan would be adding a hit of armour on the way down for his skydrop. It's stupid to spend meter only to get the move stuffed by a jump kick.

 

[Rude]

Warlock is slept on. Mained him day 1.

If anything, a universal buff for quan would be adding a hit of armour on the way down for his skydrop. It's stupid to spend meter only to get the move stuffed by a jump kick.

Improve it's priority and hitbox. It's awful right now.

Also, JDM, as a frame of reference, 15 frames was the speed of Batgirl's overhead in Injustice.

When she put players in the vortex, how many tournament players blocked that on reaction? Because if that was seeable, all anyone would have to do is block low and fuzzy her overhead.

And who did that consistently in tournament?

 

[llabslb]

I've yet to see someone block this consistently so don't go around saying it's easy to block without showing how easy it is

 

[JDM]

Sonicfox has like 30 setups with batgirl, you're not only reacting to her overhead and blocking low, ON PAPER 15 frames can be reacted to, that's not necessarily what's going to happen in a match and definitely not when there's a bunch of different possibilities in a mixup.

I don't even know what you're talking about with Quan Chi, all I know is 15 frames is on the cusp of being reactable, not that it's completely impossible to react to. That's all I said.

 

[JDM]

Also I remember my friend playing Arturo in tournament and him literally blocking every high low mixup with batgirl, I was super impressed. Maybe he was guessing, but old school SF players have much better reactions than anyone playing currently.

 

[WhoIsYams]

Quan is balanced
Pros: unblockable untechable instant 100% bat setups
Cons: weekly shitposts

 

[Rude]

Sonicfox has like 30 setups with batgirl, you're not only reacting to her overhead and blocking low, ON PAPER 15 frames can be reacted to, that's not necessarily what's going to happen in a match and definitely not when there's a bunch of different possibilities in a mixup.

I don't even know what you're talking about with Quan Chi, all I know is 15 frames is on the cusp of being reactable, not that it's completely impossible to react to. That's all I said.

In the Batgirl scenario i mentioned, i was specifically referring to after the bola on hit, after 111 or b2,d3 where he gets a free 50/50. No set ups in this scenario, just the 50/50.

In that scenario, you're not fuzzy guarding. You're guessing.

Is it possible that Art, an experienced fighting game veteran who has dealt with vortex characters many times before, simply guessed right?

Is it possible that your friend fell into a pattern?

Players like Alucard and Art are much better at making reads than your average player, so is it possible that they are making reads that SEEM like reactions?

If your best argument is insubstantial, anecdotal evidence, then I'm not convinced.

Again, a good read can often feel like a reaction, but that's ultimately what it is, a read.

 

[JDM]

Ok kiddo. You can believe what you want.

 

[Rude]

Ok kiddo. You can believe what you want.

If you had any evidence or footage or something that isn't anecdotal, I'm more than willing to change my mind.

 

[JDM]

You seem content on believing they are reading their opponent rather than reacting, no way I can really prove this one way or another so we'll just agree to disagree.

 

[FrankOceansWaifu]

Improve it's priority and hitbox. It's awful right now.

Also, JDM, as a frame of reference, 15 frames was the speed of Batgirl's overhead in Injustice.

When she put players in the vortex, how many tournament players blocked that on reaction? Because if that was seeable, all anyone would have to do is block low and fuzzy her overhead.

And who did that consistently in tournament?

Jupiter

 

[I GOT HANDS]

You seem content on believing they are reading their opponent rather than reacting, no way I can really prove this one way or another so we'll just agree to disagree.

I'd personally be willing to accept it if I saw them do it 9 times out of 10, giving 1 time your way for human error


Things I can react to I don't ever get caught by, and I'm not very good. This should be more than reasonable.


Otherwise, if you can't provide this, the exact same statement could be said back to you: You seem content on believing that absolutely every read is a reaction. Guess what, I react to Ermac's 9 frame overhead too. 50% of the time anyway

 

[Phosferrax]

I think people are getting confused regarding reaction time.

If you had 15f to see any sort of movement and block, then you could most of the time.

But in 15f, you can not see the movement, recognize that it's and OH and block accordingly. Maybe you could if there wasn't an a low threat of equal speed, but because of the low it is impossible to react more times than not to the 50/50 and block it based on sight.

 

[STB Shujinkydink]

Also I remember my friend playing Arturo in tournament and him literally blocking every high low mixup with batgirl, I was super impressed. Maybe he was guessing, but old school SF players have much better reactions than anyone playing currently.

What was your friends tag?