Question - Summoner Is this character overly downplayed?

[DreadKnight1]

People throw out that summoner Quan chi is fair because he has 'no defensive options' which roughly translates to poor wakeups and no decent armoured move.My question is just how relevant is this?

Summoner wields what could be argued as the best offence in the game from one of the best mixup a and 50/50s in the game to the best zoning in the game.Does not being able to wakeup mean that a character should me amazing anywhere on screen except on a knockdown? Does it make the b2/low bat very hard to block vortex that loops fair? Does it make the full screen unblockable or the 40+% unbreakables fair? Is it also fair that he gets 50% for a bar in the corner and he gets to make 2 50/50 attempts at you because he's +for days after a MBrune or while the bat is out and you're just there expecting the hardest block scenario in the game...how relevant is it really to not have an armoured wakeup or reversal???

It's not like Quan chi has awful normals or as soon as they're comboing a summoner that he loses the round and it's not like it's actually ggs of he's cornered,he has a great d3 that on hit leads to his 50/50 and suddenly the momentum has been shifted completely. Please vote on the poll so I can see where others stand on this. Is he as broken as I feel or am I just a scrub that needs to level up...

 

[llabslb]

The low bat and overhead is broken and can be mixed up. The chance of blocking it with these two factors in place simply means it is very difficult to block, left to chance and you have to correctly predict if it's the low or overhead first. Something like this should not be in the game and is clearly broken.

Quan players have an excuse that quan would be dead if his vortex was taken away. No, the vortex is broken simple as. Want a wakeup? Use Warlock.

 

[Scott The Scot]

I never have trouble with bat mix ups. Maybe my opponents suck at using it, but genereally I block it alright.

 

[SaSSolino]

hard to blockables are wrong, even on a char as bad as goro.

 

[M2Dave]

How relevant is it really to not have an armoured wakeup or reversal???

Very relevant, especially when some characters are able to perform pseudo block infinite combos on you in the corner. Quan Chi's best defense is his offense and zoning. The fundamental design of the character is functional and is not that different from Dictator in ST or Seth of the IV series.

Is he as broken as I feel or am I just a scrub that needs to level up...

You are unquestionably a scrub who needs to level up, but I would support damage reduction on all combos and the low bat hitting mid if and only if all top tier characters are treated equally. I personally dislike any of the so-called semi-unblockable scenarios, including Quan Chi's.

Want a wakeup? Use Warlock.

There is a reason nobody has placed with Warlock. The variation has by far the weakest vortex and zoning potential. Besides, while the armored wake up is a viable option, it is nothing spectacular in terms of start up frames. Warlock may have the best anti-zoning potential, which is irrelevant because Summoner and Sorcerer already outzone every character in the game.

 

[Derptile]

I like his design and I dunno if he's broken(dat defense doe). But he's pretty fucking stupid once he gets his game going, S-Tier for sure.

 

[Scoot Magee]

It's either steamroll or get steamrolled.

 

[WakeUp DP]

Overrated for sure.

 

[Vintagesoul]

I laugh when people say that Quan has weak defense. His njp is one of the strongest defensive tools in the game.

Not having a decent wake up=! Bad defense.

Having said that, I think Quan is fine, but only in the context of the other tools that the top tiers have.

 

[james1926]

He is broken. If you cant see that you are either biased or a scrub. And is not like all characters can abuse his lack of a good wakeup or fast armor. Mileena certainly cant.

 

[EGP Wonder_Chef]

Is this title not overly confusing or yes?

 

[EGP Wonder_Chef]

Second note: Poll options:

Yes, it is overly confusing
No, you think it's more confusing than it is
Completely confusing
Not at all, completely unconfusing

 

[Rude]

He is broken. If you cant see that you are either biased or a scrub. And is not like all characters can abuse his lack of a good wakeup or fast armor. Mileena certainly cant.

Yes she can?

Everyone can abuse his lack of a wake up.

 

[llabslb]

Very relevant, especially when some characters are able to perform pseudo block infinite combos on you in the corner. Quan Chi's best defense is his offense and zoning. The fundamental design of the character is functional and is not that different from Dictator in ST or Seth of the IV series.



You are unquestionably a scrub who needs to level up, but I would support damage reduction on all combos and the low bat hitting mid if and only if all top tier characters are treated equally. I personally dislike any of the so-called semi-unblockable scenarios, including Quan Chi's.



There is a reason nobody has placed with Warlock. The variation has by far the weakest vortex and zoning potential. Besides, while the armored wake up is a viable option, it is nothing spectacular in terms of start up frames. Warlock may have the best anti-zoning potential, which is irrelevant because Summoner and Sorcerer already outzone every character in the game.

I'm not even going to begin to talk about if Warlock is viable, can win a tournament or not.

 

[Ryncage]

His vortex potential is stupid, and in x years when everyone has it down and nrs has fucked off to mk11, quan players will jus be saying " our bad, guess it is stupid :^) "

How you want to change the vortex , and what you want ti give quan in return is up for debate, but in its current form, its as retarded as block infinites and needs to be tweaked along with that shit too.

That or undo all buffs/nerfs and start over, and actually try to stay consistent this time around.

 

[Aqueous_Echo]

The NJP/bat mixup can just be back dashed and it'll whiff, if timed correctly.

 

[james1926]

Yes she can?

Everyone can abuse his lack of a wake up.

Yes she can?

Everyone can abuse his lack of a wake up.

She does not gain any significant advantage of his lack of good armor or wakeups. If you disagree please explain.

Not all characters gain a significant advantage of his weakness and thats why his design doesnt work the way it is currently.

If everyone could abuse it like tanya it would be another story.

 

[Rude]

She does not gain any significant advantage of his lack of good armor or wakeups. If you disagree please explain.

Not all characters gain a significant advantage of his weakness and thats why his design doesnt work the way it is currently.

If everyone could abuse it like tanya it would be another story.

Does she have any safe strings?

Does she have unseeable mix ups?

Can she run?

Can she cross up?

If so, then congratulations! You can abuse Quan's wake up.

Running will push him along the ground to the corner if he delays wake up.

If he meter burns his Sky Drop, ANY of your strings/unseeable mix ups will chew through the armor.

If he tech rolls, you can run or jump and force him to block your pressure.

It's THAT easy and literally anyone can do it.

Better yet: Say he does Sky drop.

As he's coming down from the air you can:

Roll.
Stand jab
Uppercut
Throw

And all of these moves will hit him out of the teleport even if he's spent a bar.

Mileena does fine pressuring him on wake up.

 

[STB Sgt Reed]

He is absolutely broken and anyone who says otherwise is in denial or is scared of getting blown up for suggesting so.

Sure, you can body quan on a knockdown, but what happens when you make one... ONE... mistake OR he happens to guess correctly o your not so hard to blockable 50/50? Good bye life bar. And not only that, but if he's feeling generous and doesn't go for the hard to blocks he only gets 40ish% for 1 bar into top 5 zoing... He's basically Cyrax (Just don't get hit lmao)

I propose giving him a goddamn ex punchwalk so that little train of "oh but he can't get up" is stopped in it's tracks and remove his damn almost unblockable shit.

 

[n1kosh]

The bat have 40 frames recovery. Also need time to start it. I think "bat" just good special and no more......

 

[countrypistol]

The issue I have is the unblockable looping on itself. Make b2 plus on block and remove the cancel window. Boost the damage and improve the push back or hit advantage on low bat and give him an armoured teleport (no damage) to accomadate. This way he would still benefit from getting the set up, only he would have to work to set it up several times. Increasing the push back/hit advantage will keep him as a zoning/keep away character.

If they can strike the same balance they got with Sorcerer I'd be happy.

 

[Rude]

Didn't this thread happen twice already?

I have to wonder if Shinnok players, Sonya players, Cassie players, Erron Black players, or Predator players have to put up with bi-weekly shit threads like these, or is it a privledge only us Quan players must endure?

 

[Mighty Durpyena]

Didn't this thread happen twice already?

I have to wonder if Shinnok players, Tanya players, Cassie players, Erron Black players, or Predator players have to put up with bi-weekly shit threads like these, or is it a privledge only us Quan players must endure?

Fixed that for you

 

[countrypistol]

Didn't this thread happen twice already?

I have to wonder if Shinnok players, Sonya players, Cassie players, Erron Black players, or Predator players have to put up with bi-weekly shit threads like these, or is it a privledge only us Quan players must endure?

I've actually picked up a second job to PayPal money to TYM members to make sure threads like this pop up every week.

#BuffKano

 

[DreadKnight1]

You are unquestionably a scrub who needs to level up,

I can't take this seriously coming from you lmao. You're just one of those people who picks a ridiculous zoner and thinks they outplay their opponent every game they win. You have no particular fundamental strengths as a player and just condescend to players on this site with no real authority or record behind your name.

That rhetorical question was put there on purpose because there's no way a human can react to whether it's low-overhead or overhead-low in the b2/low bat mixup IF THE QUAN PLAYER KNOWS WHAT THEYRE DOING AND HAVE PRACTICED and therefore by telling me to level up you're just proving how arrogant and ignorant you really are.Now carry on crying about how deathstroke was nerfed too hard and how he unfairly ended up around 8-10 on the tier list and please continue to preach how zod players are superior-that kind of comedy is what keeps me on this site...