Question - Summoner Is this character overly downplayed?

[EGP Wonder_Chef]

She does not gain any significant advantage of his lack of good armor or wakeups. If you disagree please explain.

Just do 12 or 123 on his wakeup. Tadaaaaa! Free plus frames!

Once he starts respecting that, throw him on wakeup! Then he's knocked down again! Tadaaaa!

 

[Tom Brady]

Quan players realize how strong he can be in certain situations but they do not care how stupid he can be against characters that recover at high negative frames off of normals. They care about how characters with fast normals that recover at adv/0/-1/-2 can just attack non stop and Quan never EVER gets a turn. Then he gets hit, combo'd, knocked down and the process gets rinsed and repeated.

Quan's design is that of a character with limited defensive options but he is potentially a one touch death character to make up for it. Basically a "don't get hit" character. However, these types of characters are typically not also powerful zoners where as to force the opponent to come in where they can get vortexed to death. The design doesnt work in any scenario - Powerful offensive characters never give Quan a turn and the non offensive characters get out zoned and then vortexed when they are forced to come in.

You could say give Quan a fast D3, reduce his damage, and remove the pseudo unblockables. However, you must then reduce Predator's damage and also remove his psuedo unblockable in hunter. If Quan can't do it then neither should anyone else. IMO it is absolutely ridiculous that people think Quan Chi's pseudo unblockables and damage are too much but say nothing about Predator when he also has pseudo unblockable situations that go for 55-59%. When Predator does it, it gets labeled as "HYPE"....

I can't take this seriously coming from you lmao. You're just one of those people who picks a ridiculous zoner and thinks they outplay their opponent every game they win. You have no particular fundamental strengths as a player and just condescend to players on this site with no real authority or record behind your name.

This is actually false. Saying someone who placed top 8 in MK9 at EVO has no real record is wrong. Also, there is a community within this community that consists of anti-zoning zealots where they see zoning as a so skill category. Nope, instead these zoning players have no fundamentals and they just stay full screen at all times and zone. Yet the very concept of maintaining that space for proper zoning requires good spacing which is in itself a fundamental part of them game hence even zoning requires fundamental skills.

 

[DreadKnight1]

Is this title not overly confusing or yes?

Sounds pretty simple to me.i meant 'overly' but stupid mobile meant I couldn't see the full title and correct it

 

[Error404]

He is pretty good undoubtedly. Honestly it would be best if this character doesn't get touched. However I'll say that I don't like when a character is build to be extremely good in some way , like Quan is with his vortex and zoning , and then gets starved of any reversal options. Yes , that's balanced , but that's the lazy mans way to balance a character.

 

[EGP Wonder_Chef]

Sounds pretty simple to me.i meant 'overly' but stupid mobile meant I couldn't see the full title and correct it

What makes it confusing is that it's got overly which is a positive, downplayed which is a negative, and "or not" which is a second negative. They all clash with eachother.

 

[Generalbit]

To cause the bat you need to spend time. Also need time to start it. I think "bat" just good special and no more......

What? Just... What?

 

[StealthyMuffin]

He doesn't have good armor, so his pseudo-unblockable is fine.

Some of you guys act like he can't block.

 

[n1kosh]

What? Just... What?

That google translator... can't really describe my thoughts

 

[StealthyMuffin]

He is pretty good undoubtedly. Honestly it would be best if this character doesn't get touched. However I'll say that I don't like when a character is build to be extremely good in some way , like Quan is with his vortex and zoning , and then gets starved of any reversal options. Yes , that's balanced , but that's the lazy mans way to balance a character.

It's lopsided design. And, yes. It's incredibly lazy.

 

[n1kosh]

What? Just... What?

very briefly: after demon spawn you have 40 frames recovery... it's too long. Fu*k i am edit my post

 

[DreadKnight1]

very briefly: after demon spawn you have 40 frames recovery... it's too long. Fu*k i am edit my post

It's not that long because you can safely get it after most knockdowns. Also you can call the bat mid combo AND continue the combo or use it for mixups the must be blocked correctly to escape or he can loop it.

 

[n1kosh]

It's not that long because you can safky get it after most knockdowns. Also you can call the bat mid combo AND continue the combo or use it for mixups the must be blocked correctly to escape or he can loop it.

Okay, i go training

 

[james1926]

Just do 12 or 123 on his wakeup. Tadaaaaa! Free plus frames!

Once he starts respecting that, throw him on wakeup! Then he's knocked down again! Tadaaaa!

Man, you think Mileena at +2 is significant advantage to cover the fact that once Quan Chi hits you is over for you?

And btw 1 is a high lol, I don't have the time to run and do that string on my basic bnbs, I need to sacrifice damage to end with 21U4. Should I do that to be at +2? Mileena at +2 is nothing really.

You block a 50/50, prepare for another. He blocks a 50/50 and it's over.

 

[james1926]

Does she have any safe strings?

Does she have unseeable mix ups?

Can she run?

Can she cross up?

If so, then congratulations! You can abuse Quan's wake up.

Running will push him along the ground to the corner if he delays wake up.

If he meter burns his Sky Drop, ANY of your strings/unseeable mix ups will chew through the armor.

If he tech rolls, you can run or jump and force him to block your pressure.

It's THAT easy and literally anyone can do it.

Better yet: Say he does Sky drop.

As he's coming down from the air you can:

Roll.
Stand jab
Uppercut
Throw

And all of these moves will hit him out of the teleport even if he's spent a bar.

Mileena does fine pressuring him on wake up.

She can do these stuff vs almost everyone lol. Mileena can't pressure anyone. You go for a 50/50 or you throw. If he blocks your 50/50 you are done.

But you know what, that's not just about 1 matchup. His design, although interesting, it just doesn't work the way it is right now. I don't get why is so hard for people to see that this character is broken. lol

 

[I GOT HANDS]

Quan Chi is the wild card of MKX. He can get his ass kicked into the ground. However, he can knock out even the best players off a touch if the game goes his way.

The character is really polarized both ways. I do think the 1-2 frame block links off a flexible timing need to be removed. He'll still be top 10, possibly higher. His defense is really bad, but still isn't at all literally "highly likely to lose the game off a touch" so his offense shouldn't be either, you should be able to execute the block against the first 50/50 out of the double 50/50, assuming you guess it right. He is insane enough without it.

 

[The_Tile]

The low bat and overhead is broken and can be mixed up. The chance of blocking it with these two factors in place simply means it is very difficult to block, left to chance and you have to correctly predict if it's the low or overhead first. Something like this should not be in the game and is clearly broken.

Quan players have an excuse that quan would be dead if his vortex was taken away. No, the vortex is broken simple as. Want a wakeup? Use Warlock.

Here's the thing about the bat mixups, when talking about whether a character is "broken" or not, you need to completely take out execution. This means on both sides. No matter how difficult it is to execute or block, at the end of the day someone is going to get perfect at both.

Therefore when you look at it this way, is it any different to a 50/50? Overhead then low or low, overhead. Are all safe 50/50s broken? I personally believe they're complete ballshit, but in the context of MKX where so many characters can make they're 50/50s safe and plus I don't think it's too much of a big deal.

How Quan works is if he touches you once you're probably dead. This is why you need to counterpick him with a character with strong oki, if you do Quan's in the exact same position as you. If you can't block the vortex it's basically who gets the first hit wins, if you can block it then it comes down to basically a 50/50, which you can do to Quan too.

Verdict: Quan is not OP or "broken", he has very defined strengths, weaknesses and good and bad matchups just like every other character.

Edit: Forgot to add this, if you're gonna do anything then just remove the pseudo-unblockables, that's it. Increase the in-game unblockable protection to cover 5 frames or something instead of just 1 frame, this would also stop Pred and any other silly situations future DLC characters have.

 

[GLoRToR]

The statement of the poll (not a question because those end with questionmarks) asks whether Summoner Quan is broken.
Then your responses are:
Yes
No
Yes
No

Why?

I'd like to suggest simplifying the whole thing and you know, questions. Question marks. Try it, it works.

 

[DreadKnight1]

The statement of the poll (not a question because those end with questionmarks) asks whether Summoner Quan is broken.
Then your responses are:
Yes
No
Yes
No

Why?

I'd like to suggest simplifying the whole thing and you know, questions. Question marks. Try it, it works.

Thanks for bumping my thread with your irrelevant post.

 

[FOREVER EL1TE]

She does not gain any significant advantage of his lack of good armor or wakeups. If you disagree please explain.

Not all characters gain a significant advantage of his weakness and thats why his design doesnt work the way it is currently.

If everyone could abuse it like tanya it would be another story.

Can't she just F12B3? Or whatever that string is called? And get 30+% in all variations? Matter of fact. She can just d3 check because she'll recover fast enough to punish or still stuff his wakeup

 

[errormacro7]

Didn't this thread happen twice already?

I have to wonder if Shinnok players, Sonya players, Cassie players, Erron Black players, or Predator players have to put up with bi-weekly shit threads like these, or is it a privledge only us Quan players must endure?

There's no comparison. More often than not, it's (some) Quan Chi players complaining and downplaying the character due to not having any option against pressure than the players that main those characters you listed.

 

[Scoot Magee]

Lol at people saying Quan Chi is broken... Like said earlier he's literally like the Seth of this game. I don't necessarily like that style of design but the character isn't broken. His lack of defense is pretty significant. He is top tier though imo.

 

[GLoRToR]

Thanks for bumping my thread with your irrelevant post.

Thanks for thanking me!

 

[Rude]

There's no comparison. More often than not, it's (some) Quan Chi players complaining and downplaying the character due to not having any option against pressure than the players that main those characters you listed.

If all the talk of nerfing and buffing that happens on this site was replaced with breaking down the spacing, footsies, and metagame of match ups, instead of arguing over match up numbers or parroting superficial talking points, i think we'd get a lot further as a community.

Instead, we get a Nerf Quan thread once every other week from people that only fight the character in online conditions.

Anyway, as I've said before, I would rather see low tiers buffed and lesser variations buffed than nerf anyone, including characters i do not play.

 

[Samsara]

low tiers buffed and lesser variations buffed than nerf anyone, including characters i do not play.

That's an awfully cheap way to admit "leave my characters overly strong tools alone" by pretending that buffing low tiers suddenly makes quan fair. I don't care how many times you buff Spectral Ermac its not going to make Quans ridculous zoning, damage, mixups, or vortex game any less hard to deal with.

We've seen low tiers buffed to the point where they become incredibly broken (shinnok), and we've seen top tiers fly under the radar (Jax and 47% midscrren say hi) by the very logic you seem to be advocating.

 

[Gesture Required Ahead]

He's fine. Give Bloodgod unblockable Sun Disc that does 30%