General/Other - Kenshi I keep hearing Kenshi is bad...

[Pig Of The Hut]

I agree about the vortex, it is very meter hungry and that was the one thing I noted about it. While I practiced Kenjutsu Kenshi all I could think about is how weak he is without meter. Honestly it just felt like bad character design, and if anything about Kenshi needed a buff the most I feel like it would be Kenjutsu, maybe give him some actual damage that doesn't require a meter. But what's the problem with his zoning that I keep hearing about? 3 of his 4 abilities seem to be pretty good zoning tools, and 2 of those are safe IIRC. I don't think Kenshi will see much if any high level tournament play but I still think he's a viable fighter for pretty much everything else. I also agree about Kenshi being somewhere around bottom 8, but the fighters in this game compared to MK9 (I didin't play Injustice) are a lot closer in viability I believe. So while bot 8 is something that would normally just be trash tier not worth ever playing, I think now most fighters in the entire game are viable, that's why I don't think Kenshi is "bad".

Before I begin have u ever even looked one time? I don't wanna have to explain every single thing that's so visable to all

 

[ColdBoreMK23]

My favorite is when I do BF3 and the enemy runs through it. Makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

 

[Peckapowa]

Possessed prolly is his best variation it can mount offense,they just made his flurry so - and you can just run by 1 low. Kenshis zoning is really not a threat unfortunately. Consider quans warlock f3 and kenshis flurries, and the difference in - frames is huge. For a "zoner" they weren't fair in what he has. His swords are worst, people can run now, and his shoulder was always what made his zoning strong.

Personally I would have made a var. where he could perform strings with his spirit sword from distances

 

[coolwhip]

Some characters in this game are solid. They seemingly have decent tools if you isolate them from context. For that, they are "viable." But when you compare them to the actual top tier characters, what those characters have, and what you need in this game to be a truly top character, suddenly these "tools" pale by comparison. I feel characters like Kenshi, Takeda and yes, Kung Lao (in before shit storm) fall in that category.

So before talking about how good some of these characters are, compare them to Kung Jin, Cassie, Sub, Quan, Erron Black, Jax, Raiden, Jaqui, etc... Then we'll see how good these "tools" really are.

 

[BlackJackSnack]

I have only messed with kenjutsu, his damage doesn't seem to be higher than 32 or so. He has an overhead and a low combo starter but they are seem to be super punishable.


Despite whether or not I think he is good or bad, I think if he gets you in the corner he can mix you up pretty well (but many characters do)

 

[PaletteSwap]

I think Kenshi suffered a similar fate to that of Meta Knight. Don't know how many Smash Bros players are on TYM, but Meta Knight had way too many tools and priority in SSBB so the designer made it a point tone his moves down to the point of crippling him in SSB4. So they toned down his strengths without improving his weaknesses. I know Kenshi was godlike in MK9, but I swear, developers don't know when to stop. Total lack of balance just so the fans can't say the devs neglected to fix an "OP" character.

The run mechanic fucks Kenshi so hard and his recovery frames should be reduced to compensate. At it's core, MKX already favors rushdown and punisher characters over zoners intrinsically. Isn't that in and of itself enough of a nerf?

 

[Diego de Souza Costa]

I think Kenshi suffered a similar fate to that of Meta Knight. Don't know how many Smash Bros players are on TYM, but Meta Knight had way too many tools and priority in SSBB so the designer made it a point tone his moves down to the point of crippling him in SSB4. So they toned down his strengths without improving his weaknesses. I know Kenshi was godlike in MK9, but I swear, developers don't know when to stop. Total lack of balance just so the fans can't say the devs neglected to fix an "OP" character.

The run mechanic fucks Kenshi so hard and his recovery frames should be reduced to compensate. At it's core, MKX already favors rushdown and punisher characters over zoners intrinsically. Isn't that in and of itself enough of a nerf?

yup....i guess that for NRS, "zoning" is considered "the art of spam the same move, and win", Jacqui's guns, Jax's bazooka, and Kano's knives, i guess that's "zoning" for them.....

 

[TheIrishFGCguy]

yup....i guess that for NRS, "zoning" is considered "the art of spam the same move, and win", Jacqui's guns, Jax's bazooka, and Kano's knives, i guess that's "zoning" for them.....

Everything you mentioned is perfectly legitimate zoning.

 

[FinalBoss_FGC]

These two quotes right here make it completely apparent to me that you have no idea what you're talking about whatsoever

I guess lol
Care to elaborate?

 

[The PantyChrist]

Some characters in this game are solid. They seemingly have decent tools if you isolate them from context. For that, they are "viable." But when you compare them to the actual top tier characters, what those characters have, and what you need in this game to be a truly top character, suddenly these "tools" pale by comparison. I feel characters like Kenshi, Takeda and yes, Kung Lao (in before shit storm) fall in that category.

I agree with KL

The run mechanic fucks Kenshi so hard and his recovery frames should be reduced to compensate. At it's core, MKX already favors rushdown and punisher characters over zoners intrinsically. Isn't that in and of itself enough of a nerf?

this reminds me of joker. He was buffed throughout the life of the game but took 2 large hits when they buffed everyone's d2's universally and made the pushblocks do 0% damage. The character had problems but the game system fucked him a lot too. I haven't played kenshi yet but it sounds like he may be easier to fix than joker would have been

 

[SirKashmir]

Most people play with Possessed, is Balanced not worth a try?

 

[Immortal]

Most people play with Possessed, is Balanced not worth a try?

Most people have no idea what they're talking about (but they talk much even if they don't play the character...) nor how to play Kenshi.

 

[SirKashmir]

Most people have no idea what they're talking about (but they talk much even if they don't play the character...) nor how to play Kenshi.

I agree, but is the Possessed the only one ''viable'' to play? It was just a question, not a suggestion for Kenshi players

 

[Immortal]

I agree, but is the Possessed the only one ''viable'' to play? It was just a question, not a suggestion for Kenshi players

All are viable to play but none of them is really good. Possessed got TP (nothing to write home about) and an ass overhead which leads to nothing. Balanced is ok for Kenshi standards atm. Kenjutsu is probably the worst one.

 

[Yoaks]

All are viable to play but none of them is really good. Possessed got TP (nothing to write home about) and an ass overhead which leads to nothing. Balanced is ok for Kenshi standards atm. Kenjutsu is probably the worst one.

Took the words right outta my mouth.

 

[Diego de Souza Costa]

Everything you mentioned is perfectly legitimate zoning.

they are.... but what i liked about Kenshi was, the "mix ups"(TF, TK Slash, RK, etc....) they were all safe at some distance, now, everything is completely punishable, by, pretty much everybody.... + all of his combos are ass, so, what am i left with.... Tele Flurry at fullscreen, and a dream.... meanwhile, Kano is still throwing knives, not giving a single fuck...

 

[TheIrishFGCguy]

they are.... but what i liked about Kenshi was, the "mix ups"(TF, TK Slash, RK, etc....) they were all safe at some distance, now, everything is completely punishable, by, pretty much everybody.... + all of his combos are ass, so, what am i left with.... Tele Flurry at fullscreen, and a dream.... meanwhile, Kano is still throwing knives, not giving a single fuck...

"Tele Flurry at fullscreen, and a dream" haha that's hilarious lol.
Yeah Kenshi really got shafted this time around. I would expect that Tele Flurry will get a buff eventually to be safer on block because right now that move is just stupidly bad. Makes no sense that a dedicated zoner can't actually zone well.

 

[MK Peanuts]

Kenshis zoning is really not a threat unfortunately. Consider quans warlock f3 and kenshis flurries, and the difference in - frames is huge.

Just to play devil's advocate for a sec, Tele-Flurry tracks runs really well. If you do f3 as Warlock Quan Chi and they run you're kind of dicked

 

[SkaGoogle]

this is subject to change. remember in injustice's first month bane was complete ass but he eventually shot up the mu chart. or I could be wrong and he could turn out like the joker and stay shit for the rest of the game's life.

 

[JDM]

After jason releases I may post it

Nice I would like to see.

 

[BigMilk]

What changes does kenshi need to make him good?
@Pig Of The Hut

 

[gibster13]

I think Kenshi is good but not amazing. He can still keep people out quite well. I think he needs more safe strings only two are safe i think. Also perhaps an overhead launcher ?? And the hitbox on the bf3 needs to be fixed it is very inconsistent for me.

 

[Sultani]

Imo, people that think characters like kenshi and mileena are good, or just fine the way they are are either playing against people that dont know the matchup, or dont completely know what all of their tools are.

Both of these characters dont need alot to make them decent, but yeah... they're pretty bad.

 

[gibster13]

Imo, people that think characters like kenshi and mileena are good, or just fine the way they are are either playing against people that dont know the matchup, or dont completely know what all of their tools are.

Both of these characters dont need alot to make them decent, but yeah... they're pretty bad.

I politely disagree. They both need something, but mainly kenshi. He really has nothing up close because everything is sooooo unsafe. Milleena has tons of mixups she is fine imo. Yes her options are a bit slow but at least she has them. Unlike kenshi who has pretty much nothing.

 

[Sultani]

Milleena has tons of mixups

No.... she doesnt.

This is kinda my point. Thinking mileena is alright because she has tons of mixups, when the reality is that she has zero mixups without meter.

When she has meter she gains access to mixups from 4 partial strings only, and at the very best its a coinflip if shes going to get damage or get fully punished.

She has two specials that are full punishable on hit.

She's pretty bad.