Breakthrough - Kano FINALLY, The Kano Community Speaks Up. Save Kano's Relevance With Needed Fixes And Reasonable Buffs

[Smoke_Of_Finland]

Not really going to condone this. I've always said Kano is fine, and by "fine" I meant that in at least two variations all of his tools worked and made up a solid character who's probably just not as strong as others. There's nothing inherently wrong with that; someone has to be in the lower end of the cast, and Kano just kind of is.

A big problem I have is that there hasn't been a lot of growth in the kano side of things for awhile because of all the tearing. I just saw in the cutthroat discussion that, just now, armored power up was being discussed. That's week 1 stuff, and I feel they could've already moved on to applications if the cyber mains weren't busy bitching about how bad he was. It's embarrassing.

I'm all for goofball things like 112 completely whiffing and the two hits of upball not hitting, but the other ones I'm not even sure why they are being suggested. The more frames on EN knife, for example; what does that serve? It neither buffs his offensive game nor strengthens his defensive game, so what the hell is the point? Why not boost his offense by making knives 8%? Why not improve his defense by making EN laser blast a mid? Commando is worse still, since Kano has a bunch of tick options and because they aren't EB good he needs more. Silly. He just got a safe special to cancel into, which is huge, but no one's exploring it, they just want more buffs. The EN knives idea is dumb too; lazy buffs to an offense that is already okay.

I feel like Cutthroat is already a solid competitor that can do insane damage to end a round, yet everyone is clamoring for buffs and ignoring it because they're too busy chucking knives and getting pissy when that's not the end all. Play around, go to big tournaments, win or lose, but just don't bs out a list and blame all your problems out on Kano. We're all bad, we need to get better and you guys can do better.

Tl;dr: Get up off your damn knees and start using the character less one dimensionally. Play with all the variations and stop suggesting whack buffs that aren't going to solve anything.

So, another "level up brah" comment? Didn't you say that you weren't gonna play Kano anymore? You can't condone at least getting ball attacks buffed?

 

[Brutal Chimney]

No I wasn't being sarcastic I literally liked that

 

[SaltShaker]

No I wasn't being sarcastic I literally liked that

Hahaha!!! Oh I see.

I definitely read it wrong lol. A lot of people wouldn't take the time to read pass the "buff" before they attack, not realizing how down to earth the request are. Possibly the most reasonable of any of the threads but we'll be lumped in the same category regardless. -.-

 

[haketh]

There is absolutely something wrong with a character being at the lower tier of the cast. It means that they are not suitable for high level play, thus created an imbalanced roster. Being okay with Low tier and bad characters means you're okay with super broken characters, because you don't give a damn about balance. NRS, and every other developer should strive for the most balanced roster they can. Did you say the same thing about any other lower tier characters?

Their will always be a low tier character in anything competitive, it's just how things work. Even the way he is now Kano can still compete.

I don't care if Kano is bottom or not, I've actually always enjoyed using lower tier characters

BUT

that doesn't change his tick options have to be fully committed too which really seems "silly" compared to the other shit other characters got
and the lack of an OH is ridiculous, command grabs aren't an excuse to not have OHs, if so explain the rest of the grapplers

Most grapplers in fighting games don't have overheads becayse causing them to duck opens them up for the overhead because you can't upback when you crouch.

 

[DFC]

Their will always be a low tier character in anything competitive, it's just how things work. Even the way he is now Kano can still compete.


Most grapplers in fighting games don't have overheads becayse causing them to duck opens them up for the overhead because you can't upback when you crouch.

That doesn't answer my question. Why is it okay for THOSE low tier characters to get buffed to all hell, But THIS character it's "Too much" or "He's fine"? What makes him an extreme outlier among low tier characters? Please explain this to me, and the thread as a whole.

 

[Gweedo888]

Okay threads like this is whats wrong with the state of mind in the FGC.... no one wants to earn there wins anymore no one wants to learn and actually grind shit out they basically see it as this WHINE OUR ASS OFF TILL WE GET WHAT WE WANT!!!! that goes for anyone Kitana players. Reptile, Takeda don't matter. Kano is solid i plan on using him for the life of the game unless tremor fights my style (im a sucker for earth style ninjas ) otherwise its Kano. Kano is solid.. so what if you have to work to get in. once you do the dmg is there. Now if he had a glaring issue that effected his gameplay that wasn't meant to be in by all means fix it... but don't sit there and bitch about the 1,1,2 cause it whiffs when they crouch..come on guys seriously pull your heads outta your asses and lvl up

 

[SaltShaker]

Their will always be a low tier character in anything competitive, it's just how things work. Even the way he is now Kano can still compete.

I've been playing fighters forever, and the only game I can think of off the top of my head where low tiers can solo tournaments is a couple of the Tekken's. I'm sure there's more but low tier is low tier in most games. If that is the case, why should character reps be content with their low tier because they can "compete", if there is opportunity to change that? Kitana and Liu could "compete" also, but they got well deserved buffs that the characters needed. Especially Kitana, who was pure doodoo all around, yet some people would still say "she's fine". Like how bad did she have to be??? But with Liu they went a lil overboard, and he was as good or better than Kano already before the patch! Shinnok who was on Kano's level got buffed to leave him in the dust. Last patch Kenshi left him in the dust. How long does Kano have to be left out until he's "competing" to stay out of the bottom 1 because "he's fine"?

 

[DFC]

but don't sit there and bitch about the 1,1,2 cause it whiffs when they crouch..come on guys seriously pull your heads outta your asses and lvl up

How dare we complain about legitimate bugs within the game? We should just "level up" to make up for these design oversights!

 

[KingHippo]

First thing first. If I remember correct, you are one of like 3 Kano main's left who thinks he's fine right? Oh wait that's right, you literally just said in the thread that you "won't be playing Kano anymore going forward". Strong words from someone who dropped the character like 85% of the community has by now.

Now that that's out the way, on to the content of your post. I question if you actually read the thread with an open mind or looked at what to criticize. Nowhere did I suggest buffs for Cutthroat at all other than B1 hitbox issues which is a bug. It's a bug when I have someone cornered and can whiff a B1 or land a point blank D1 or D3 and whiff B1. If it needs a millimeter extra of reach or a hitbox adjustment, it needs something. Even the haters agree this needs to big fixed and it is the only Cutt suggestion I made, with only like 3-4 buff request in the entire OP, so I have no idea where "everyone is clamoring for buffs and ignoring it" comes from.

Also, you said what purpose does extra +frames on EX Knives in Cyber serve? Really? You play, I mean played the character so I'm sure you've been escaped and armored when doing EX Knives on block up close. Adding a few more +frames will make it a legit frame trap so you can mix in grabs. Like Lao's hat, Cage's fireball, insert 5 other characters, etc. Kano is like the only one who spends a bar of meter for pressure while the opponent still has options to escape. He doesn't even have an OH I'm Cyber so the grab/string mixup will be for real, as it is for other characters. If you think "8% knives" would be better I don't know what to say.

Lastly, your definition of fine, go play, and don't blame Kano is beyond me. I'm glad you explained what you meant, but I can never agree. We should aim to bring the weak characters up, not leave them down because they're fine not being good. What? An example, when Tyrant made the thread in Injustice saying Grundy was ass, and 80% of TYM attack HIM, Tyrant of all people, saying he was a washed up FG player and couldn't "adapt", maybe he was doing something wrong and not playing the character right, etc. The thread is still there, they killed him, but he's worshipped again now. Was he wrong? Grundy was "fine" supposedly, received like 1 buff through all patches combined, and ended up being a lower mid tier counter pick for one match option at best. If Tyrant didn't get respect for saying the truth I don't expect much, but it still needs to be said.

Sue me for liking Liu Kang better. Kano's viability had zero percent to do with my switching characters, so no cheap shots please.

To your second point, that's exactly what I'm talking about. I really don't see anything wrong with Cutthroat, I think it's a perfectly good variation that is probably his strongest. The reason why I don't think b1 needs a range buff is because it leads to a two bar 60% combo that is safe on the hitconfirm. In no way, shape, or form do I want that to be an option that has a lot of range. EN Armor itself is a huge interrupt move since it can make a normal punish become insane if you armor through a string and can make them guess on a 50/50. I feel like the strengths of that variation have been lost in the clamor for buffs for the other two. If it's slight that's fine, but anything more is asking for a lot of trouble. I don't think the Cutthroat buffs are unreasonable, just not necessary.

I did play the character, and I never used EN Knives to go for whack "pressure", no. I used it to keep myself relatively safe on a knife and crush armor, not to run up and do throw that's silly. Why spend a bar when he already has great tools to condition someone to sit still? Like I said, there are better ways to make his offense better, like buffing the main move he is attacking with, which is knife. Just make it do a little more damage and it will make people more antsy and give you more damage for being agressive. You're already pretty plus, what would more do, get you a throw? Go for the real stuff.

Because I don't think Kano's tools are weak, he's just weak comparatively, which is okay, that happens a lot. Doesn't mean that the character can't place, they just have to work harder. That's unfortunate, but I don't think just taking his tools and jacking them to overdrive is necessary since the base is solid enough. None of the buffs that came the other day to other characters were unwarranted; Liu Kang's Flame Fist was very, very bad and the new and fancy tool he got (Shaolin Flame and Windmill Punch) were almost useless since they were difficult to get out and did chip at the expense of safety. Necormancer Shinnok was horrible as well, with lots of tracking issues that just didn't work. Kitana, for a long time, had a defensive mid range string that wasn't safe and crazy unsafe air fans despite seemingly being defensive. The characters straight up didn't work at what they were supposed to, now they do. Kano got buffs to Commando, which I agree was in the same line as those other variations, and now it's probably solid. Instead of making threads like this, you should be exploring Commando and what those buffs do for it now.

I think Grundy was similar, where he was pretty good and all his tools worked but he was outclassed a bit and also it was very easy for many of the better characters to avoid grabs. It happens, man, but the solution is not to just go nuts and buff everything. That's how you get a Bane, which is what everyone should want to avoid.

 

[DFC]

@KingHippo Question for you. Why do you think that it's okay for a move to hit at point blank when done naked, but to whiff at the same range after a D1 is confirmed? Any suggestions about adding range are NOT to make this move super good. they are to fix the clear flaw in design.

 

[LOCO]

Most grapplers in fighting games don't have overheads becayse causing them to duck opens them up for the overhead because you can't upback when you crouch.

and the grapplers in THIS game?

lol thats what a mix up is, so your excuse is because u don't have a block all button kano shouldn't have an overhead, yet the other grapplers do? come on man, really?

 

[ando1184]

Sue me for liking Liu Kang better. Kano's viability had zero percent to do with my switching characters, so no cheap shots please.

To your second point, that's exactly what I'm talking about. I really don't see anything wrong with Cutthroat, I think it's a perfectly good variation that is probably his strongest. The reason why I don't think b1 needs a range buff is because it leads to a two bar 60% combo that is safe on the hitconfirm. In no way, shape, or form do I want that to be an option that has a lot of range. EN Armor itself is a huge interrupt move since it can make a normal punish become insane if you armor through a string and can make them guess on a 50/50. I feel like the strengths of that variation have been lost in the clamor for buffs for the other two. If it's slight that's fine, but anything more is asking for a lot of trouble. I don't think the Cutthroat buffs are unreasonable, just not necessary.

I did play the character, and I never used EN Knives to go for whack "pressure", no. I used it to keep myself relatively safe on a knife and crush armor, not to run up and do throw that's silly. Why spend a bar when he already has great tools to condition someone to sit still? Like I said, there are better ways to make his offense better, like buffing the main move he is attacking with, which is knife. Just make it do a little more damage and it will make people more antsy and give you more damage for being agressive. You're already pretty plus, what would more do, get you a throw? Go for the real stuff.

Because I don't think Kano's tools are weak, he's just weak comparatively, which is okay, that happens a lot. Doesn't mean that the character can't place, they just have to work harder. That's unfortunate, but I don't think just taking his tools and jacking them to overdrive is necessary since the base is solid enough. None of the buffs that came the other day to other characters were unwarranted; Liu Kang's Flame Fist was very, very bad and the new and fancy tool he got (Shaolin Flame and Windmill Punch) were almost useless since they were difficult to get out and did chip at the expense of safety. Necormancer Shinnok was horrible as well, with lots of tracking issues that just didn't work. Kitana, for a long time, had a defensive mid range string that wasn't safe and crazy unsafe air fans despite seemingly being defensive. The characters straight up didn't work at what they were supposed to, now they do. Kano got buffs to Commando, which I agree was in the same line as those other variations, and now it's probably solid. Instead of making threads like this, you should be exploring Commando and what those buffs do for it now.

I think Grundy was similar, where he was pretty good and all his tools worked but he was outclassed a bit and also it was very easy for many of the better characters to avoid grabs. It happens, man, but the solution is not to just go nuts and buff everything. That's how you get a Bane, which is what everyone should want to avoid.

But hippo, I did explore. That vid I demonstrated was post patch and he still has those bugs. Upball doesn't AA, MB command throws whiff if opponent is doing a string or attacking and trades sometimes, and upball is only -5 if the 2nd hit connects. He needs these bugs tweaked

 

[MUERTE]

King hippo is a fkn idiot. also seems like the type to enjoy smelling his own farts

 

[KingHippo]

But hippo, I did explore. That vid I demonstrated was post patch and he still has those bugs. Upball doesn't AA, MB command throws whiff if opponent is doing a string or attacking and trades sometimes, and upball is only -5 if the 2nd hit connects. He needs these bugs tweaked

I'm all good with bugs like the command throw thing and the upball getting tweaked, that's fine. I get the feeling that upball is a move sort of supposed to work on crossups and early read due to speed rather than be a legit anti air option, he's got other things for that. Also a wakeup. A slight hitbox buff is probably reasonable.

 

[dribirut]

Hahaha!!! Oh I see.

I definitely read it wrong lol. A lot of people wouldn't take the time to read pass the "buff" before they attack, not realizing how down to earth the request are. Possibly the most reasonable of any of the threads but we'll be lumped in the same category regardless. -.-

I love how some people will just not admit they were wrong . Many people were saying he is "fine" as in he can compete and is a good character. Now they are making excuses and saying they meant fine as in an honest character who is low tier.

 

[Rip Torn]

hes talkn bout jason, and jason does
and Kano needs one, theres no reason all the other graplers got one

Jason has an overhead in his grappler variation but it's not a starter, it knocks down and it has 24 frame startup.

On a side note I agree with the fixes especially to his parry, upball and 112 string.

 

[DFC]

King hippo is a fkn idiot. also seems like the type to enjoy smelling his own farts

But... I like to smell his farts

I love how some people will just not admit they were wrong . Many people were saying he is "fine" as in he can compete and is a good character. Now they are making excuses and saying they meant fine as in an honest character who is low tier.

Bruh, this low tier character is fine. Because we must accept that this game has a low tier, and we must accept that our character is in that defined category because reasons. Nobody has given a reason as to why anybody should be fine with their favorite character being low tier. Sorry, aside from "level up lmao" and the circular logic that is "Games have low tier"

 

[SaltShaker]

Sue me for liking Liu Kang better. Kano's viability had zero percent to do with my switching characters, so no cheap shots please.

To your second point, that's exactly what I'm talking about. I really don't see anything wrong with Cutthroat, I think it's a perfectly good variation that is probably his strongest. The reason why I don't think b1 needs a range buff is because it leads to a two bar 60% combo that is safe on the hitconfirm. In no way, shape, or form do I want that to be an option that has a lot of range. EN Armor itself is a huge interrupt move since it can make a normal punish become insane if you armor through a string and can make them guess on a 50/50. I feel like the strengths of that variation have been lost in the clamor for buffs for the other two. If it's slight that's fine, but anything more is asking for a lot of trouble. I don't think the Cutthroat buffs are unreasonable, just not necessary.

I did play the character, and I never used EN Knives to go for whack "pressure", no. I used it to keep myself relatively safe on a knife and crush armor, not to run up and do throw that's silly. Why spend a bar when he already has great tools to condition someone to sit still? Like I said, there are better ways to make his offense better, like buffing the main move he is attacking with, which is knife. Just make it do a little more damage and it will make people more antsy and give you more damage for being agressive. You're already pretty plus, what would more do, get you a throw? Go for the real stuff.

Because I don't think Kano's tools are weak, he's just weak comparatively, which is okay, that happens a lot. Doesn't mean that the character can't place, they just have to work harder. That's unfortunate, but I don't think just taking his tools and jacking them to overdrive is necessary since the base is solid enough. None of the buffs that came the other day to other characters were unwarranted; Liu Kang's Flame Fist was very, very bad and the new and fancy tool he got (Shaolin Flame and Windmill Punch) were almost useless since they were difficult to get out and did chip at the expense of safety. Necormancer Shinnok was horrible as well, with lots of tracking issues that just didn't work. Kitana, for a long time, had a defensive mid range string that wasn't safe and crazy unsafe air fans despite seemingly being defensive. The characters straight up didn't work at what they were supposed to, now they do. Kano got buffs to Commando, which I agree was in the same line as those other variations, and now it's probably solid. Instead of making threads like this, you should be exploring Commando and what those buffs do for it now.

I think Grundy was similar, where he was pretty good and all his tools worked but he was outclassed a bit and also it was very easy for many of the better characters to avoid grabs. It happens, man, but the solution is not to just go nuts and buff everything. That's how you get a Bane, which is what everyone should want to avoid.

Well cheap shots typically aren't my style, but I do always return the favor when someone takes one at me.

But no one is even asking for Cutthroat buffs outside of B1.. Just a consistent hitbox on B1 is all that's asked. We aren't saying we want Kung Jin F2 range, we're saying we don't want to have Kano's balls rubbing on Scorpion's kneecap and still whiff. If I can land a D1 or D3 point blank and still whiff that's a problem. If I can carry you to the corner and whiff B1 when you stand up blocking low that's a problem. I don't care how they fix it, whether it's a tiny increase in range or an adjustment in hitbox, but something needs to be done. Sonya does 74% in the corner and that XRay parry can parry the return of Jesus, so something needs to give with this B1.

In Cyber no one does anything anymore but block low and wait for a counter opportunity. There's no reason to do anything else. This would be ok if he had stronger tools but he doesn't. Knives are great for breaking armor, but if you're using them up close to stay safe why not have them actually guarantee a follow up? Why do they have to be risky up close on block even after a bar is spent? As said earlier, Lao doesn't have this issue, Johnny doesn't, Jin doesn't, hell even Jax gets +8 for non EX wave. Why is Kano like the only one who can be armored and escaped?? This among other things is why he is so weak.

Look at what you said here. "I don't think Kano's tools are weak, he's just weak comparatively". Yes. Exactly. I agree. Say I make $60k a year and bought a house in a crap of Brooklyn. I would most likely make more money than most my neighbors. Now say I hated the neighborhood so I moved to Upper East Side Manhattan. My new apartment would be amazing, but most my neighbors would make more money than me, some of them a lot more. Now that $60k looks good on paper in Brooklyn, but living in the Upper East Side you can barely pay rent while all your neighbors pay two months in advance. This is Kano. Struggling to pay rent living in a neighborhood beyond his means.

DF Liu was as good as Kano, yet the buffed FF to the moon, while giving Commando a better choke and another inconsistent move in Upball buff. That speaks for itself. Grundy was the original owner of that apartment. Unfortunately, Grundy couldn't afford to pay the rent anymore so naive Kano took the apartment in his place. I'm a real life account, and from my calculations, Kano won't be able to afford the rent anymore either by this time next year and will be evicted before then. Apparently he thought he had more money saved than he really did and signed the lease too early. Now his employers don't have to make him a millionaire, but if they simply gave him a well deserved raise to pay his bills like those guys in Midtown got, then maybe he'll be able to afford his new apartment and feel comfortable fitting in with his new neighbors.

 

[Predannok]

hes talkn bout jason, and jason does
and Kano needs one, theres no reason all the other graplers got one

Sun god kotal's b122 last it is a overhead that is -10 and b12 will compeletly whiff on the females and low profiles eventhough thier mids not to forget about -49 or -39 recovery on whiffed command grab

 

[MsMiharo]

Well cheap shots typically aren't my style, but I do always return the favor when someone takes one at me.

But no one is even asking for Cutthroat buffs outside of B1.. Just a consistent hitbox on B1 is all that's asked. We aren't saying we want Kung Jin F2 range, we're saying we don't want to have Kano's balls rubbing on Scorpion's kneecap and still whiff. If I can land a D1 or D3 point blank and still whiff that's a problem. If I can carry you to the corner and whiff B1 when you stand up blocking low that's a problem. I don't care how they fix it, whether it's a tiny increase in range or an adjustment in hitbox, but something needs to be done. Sonya does 74% in the corner and that XRay parry can parry the return of Jesus, so something needs to give with this B1.

In Cyber no one does anything anymore but block low and wait for a counter opportunity. There's no reason to do anything else. This would be ok if he had stronger tools but he doesn't. Knives are great for breaking armor, but if you're using them up close to stay safe why not have them actually guarantee a follow up? Why do they have to be risky up close on block even after a bar is spent? As said earlier, Lao doesn't have this issue, Johnny doesn't, Jin doesn't, hell even Jax gets +8 for non EX wave. Why is Kano like the only one who can be armored and escaped?? This among other things is why he is so weak.

Look at what you said here. "I don't think Kano's tools are weak, he's just weak comparatively". Yes. Exactly. I agree. Say I make $60k a year and bought a house in a crap of Brooklyn. I would most likely make more money than most my neighbors. Now say I hated the neighborhood so I moved to Upper East Side Manhattan. My new apartment would be amazing, but most my neighbors would make more money than me, some of them a lot more. Now that $60k looks good on paper in Brooklyn, but living in the Upper East Side you can barely pay rent while all your neighbors pay two months in advance. This is Kano. Struggling to pay rent living in a neighborhood beyond his means.

DF Liu was as good as Kano, yet the buffed FF to the moon, while giving Commando a better choke and another inconsistent move in Upball buff. That speaks for itself. Grundy was the original owner of that apartment. Unfortunately, Grundy couldn't afford to pay the rent anymore so naive Kano took the apartment in his place. I'm a real life account, and from my calculations, Kano won't be able to afford the rent anymore either by this time next year and will be evicted before then. Apparently he thought he had more money saved than he really did and signed the lease too early. Now his employers don't have to make him a millionaire, but if they simply gave him a well deserved raise to pay his bills like those guys in Midtown got, then maybe he'll be able to afford his new apartment and feel comfortable fitting in with his new neighbors.

To be fair I don't think it's his employers fault he moved so the analogy doesn't work 100% but I appreciate it nonetheless.

 

[OG Mannimal]

I agree that the bugs need to be fixed. No sense in playing an unfinished character.

As for the buffs...

EX Knives close range in Commando and Cutthroat leave you close range. With the non existent hitbox of Cutthroat B1 and style of Commando, spending a bar for the frame advantage on block shouldn't leave you out of the striking range you are trying to achieve. It would be like Lao spending a bar on hat plus frames just to be out of range to hit you. He even steps forward when he does the move. It should leave him forward so he can apply pressure the same way the other characters in the game do in these two variations.

Cancelling into EX Knives in Cutthroat and Commando makes no sense, the first knife is a high and people will always poke you out of it. Congrats, now you've wasted a bar and gotten hit. No reason for a buff like this when there's no use for it.

Up laser to have an actual use. Currently, this move serves no purpose. We recommend it at least have some sort of hitbox similar to how Jacqui's UpRockets operate. Even if it AA'd on normal and juggled on EX. With the near useless high risk Upball in effect, this would be a good AA alternative for things we are unable to B1.

B1 will always be a better option than this, unless it does 32% when you EX it. B1 leads to 31% with meter. If you're at a range where up laser would hit and B1 wouldn't, that means you can trip guard with B2. Useless buff.

More plus frames on EX Knives. At distance, it wouldn't make to much of a difference, but up close it would work in line with other characters in the game. When you do a string into EX Knives, characters are still able to escape or simply armor through your follow up. Cyber has no OH, and with players improving every day the offense in this variation is near non existent. If we were able to have more plus frames, we would at least have a bootleg mix up of string/grab. That itself isn't even much, especially when compared to what other characters can do, but at least it would be something.

Five frames advantage on block is plenty in MKX. Unless you have no idea how to condition your opponent, this buff serves no real purpose. How advantageous do you want it to be? Shinnok EX Sparks Level?

More tick throw options. How this grappler can't utilize tick throws outside of a couple of options are beyond me. Erron Black couldn't have been expected to be the "grappler of the game" with Commando's apparent build, but something isn't right. Of course he shouldn't be able to tic throw off of every normal and string, but he should be able to off of some of his other often utilized strings.

This one I am on the fence about. He already has ticks off D1, D3, and D4, which the choke buff made decent with the mixup between choke and command grab on block. But as fore more options, I just don't see how a string/normal could be chosen. B13 would be the only good choice, but it'd be pretty ridiculous.

Only the referenced B1 hitbox improvement mentioned earlier. That's it.

I don't think that cutthroat's B1 should be used as a 50/50 tool, but as a whiff punishing/anti air tool. It's quick, and brings you back a decent distance with a hurtbox out in front of him. Cutthroat is already good without having a far-reaching overhead.

I agree that he needs buffs. Just not these buffs. Even then, nothing extreme what-so-ever.

 

[DFC]

jhghjghjghjgj

Sun god kotal's b122 last it is a overhead that is -10 and b12 will compeletly whiff on the females and low profiles eventhough thier mids not to forget about -49 or -39 recovery on whiffed command grab

recovery frames on whiffed grabs are great. Whiff Kano's MB air ball? You're waiting for more than a second before recovery.

On that note, I feel like the only guy who actually clamors for MB Air ball. If you're hitting high, you can't bring it out on block(which is fine). But then if you bring it out when you'd hit low, they have enough time to react and d1/2/3/4/combo you right out, effectively throwing a bar of meter straight into the trash

 

[KingHippo]

Cancelling into EX Knives in Cutthroat and Commando makes no sense, the first knife is a high and people will always poke you out of it. Congrats, now you've wasted a bar and gotten hit. No reason for a buff like this when there's no use for it.

There are a few strings than will jail into EN Knives in Cut and Commando, so there's a sense to asking for the buff. I don't think that's necessary, but there's a base for it.

 

[OG Mannimal]

There are a few strings than will jail into EN Knives in Cut and Commando, so there's a sense to asking for the buff. I don't think that's necessary, but there's a base for it.

Fair enough.

 

[M2Dave]

Five frames advantage on block is plenty in MKX. Unless you have no idea how to condition your opponent, this buff serves no real purpose. How advantageous do you want it to be? Shinnok EX Sparks Level?

I agree. +5 is a humongous block frame advantage. Let us compare EX knife toss to other projectiles attacks, including ones that were buffed.

Kung Lao's EX hat spin is +27 on block.
Quan Chi's EX rune is +15 on block.
Shinnok's EX hell sparks is +24 on block.
Kitana's EX glaive is... well, the frame data is incorrect, but the move has to be at least +20 on block.
Jax's regular wave blast is +8 on block. (Added. Thanks @DougDFC).

Fool.