Ff10 - Tom Brady (Sub-Zero) Vs CDjr (Jax)

[RM_NINfan101]

Jr has stated in his twitter that he'll lose because he doesn't know the matchup, he played The Menoutis to learn.

Always a good idea IMO.

 

[TheIrishFGCguy]

Characters. Good reads. You're defining the entire game meta in FT3s in very specific match ups.

I'm not defining anything. I'm simply stating how several top players overcame this seemingly impossible ice clone issue in tournament to beat one of the best Sub Zero players because they learned the match up. I also forgot to add Zyphox (Takeda) who beat Tom at Paradise found by playing excellently to his characters strengths, and the scorpion player (forget the name) who eliminated him from NWM.

You're the one defining the entire meta game (trying to anyway) by calling the ice clone an issue and implying that it needs to be changed.

Also I apologise to Tom for bringing up so many memories he probably wants to forget but they do serve as good points in the argument for Sub Zero.

 

[NurzBenny]

As a Jax player . . . I know this pain. Our answer is probably pumped up or maybe even heavy weapons. Will never not be rough, but with time it'll get better.

 

[Bugman]

I don't normally weigh into these debates, but the ice clone is so stupidly good in mkx. Something has to be done, its just to ridiculous in this game.

I'm with you on that buddy. SZ is to OP

 

[Bidu]

So much for "how to punish sub zero video" LOL.

That worked. NOT.

Although CDJR didn't respect that video entirely. He didn't pick Kung Lao.

Doesn't matter where I go all I see from you is cry all day long over Sub-Zero. It's getting old already. And pathetic to be honest.

You are aware that every single character in the game can punish Sub-Zero's strings into Klone on reaction, right? If your variation doesn't just pick another variation. The video Tom posted (if you even watched it until the end, which I bet you didn't ) shows that. It starts with Kung Lao, but then shows a lot of others characters punished Sub. Characters like Ermac and Jacqui can punish Klone on reaction with or without meter.

You're clueless.

Says the guy that doesn't even know the match up very vell. Man your matches against Bill were even worse than CDjr's. You barely touched him. CDjr has the excuse that it was his first time playing the match up. What's yours? And if for one second in you mind do you believe it's because Sub is too good and need nerfs you're the main reason along with many others cry babies why NRS fucked up MK9 pretty good in the end. Learn the good damn match up. Adapt. Fuck, you are blessed to be able to play with a lot of legends in there...

Good to watch, but Brady got away with a lot of unsafe stuff, looked like Jr. lacks some experience is all.

He said that after the match was over. Game is new, he lacks experience in that particular matchup.

 

[Rude]

What would be a FAIR change to clone, if it HAD to be changed?

 

[Linkuei82]

What would be a FAIR change to clone, if it HAD to be changed?

That's what I'm wondering. What is it about the Clone that makes Subzero OP. This is not the same clone in Vanilla MK3, so I am really really curious what makes Subzero S+++ tier? His corner trap game is exactly the same as it was in MK9. Is it because he has 50/50's now?

 

[Cossner]

I'm not defining anything. I'm simply stating how several top players overcame this seemingly impossible ice clone issue in tournament to beat one of the best Sub Zero players because they learned the match up. I also forgot to add Zyphox (Takeda) who beat Tom at Paradise found by playing excellently to his characters strengths, and the scorpion player (forget the name) who eliminated him from NWM.

You're the one defining the entire meta game (trying to anyway) by calling the ice clone an issue and implying that it needs to be changed.

Also I apologise to Tom for bringing up so many memories he probably wants to forget but they do serve as good points in the argument for Sub Zero.

You do realize I live and practice with these guys 4 days a week right?

 

[TheIrishFGCguy]

You do realize I live and practice with these guys 4 days a week right?

What does that have to do with this discussion...?

 

[Bidu]

I'm making a video that will be out tomorrow showing every characters options.

Considering how people around here are lazy and don't go to the lab themselves, I thank you for them. lol

 

[Cossner]

Says the guy that doesn't even know the match up very vell. Man you matches against Bill were even worse than CDjr's. You barely touched him. And if for one second in you mind do you believe it's because Sub is too good and need nerfs you're the main reason along with many others cry babies why NRS f*cked up MK9 in the end. Learn the good damn match up. Adapt. Fuck, you are blessed to be able to play with a lot of legends in there...

I overcame 2-8 match ups every tournament I went to for Injustice. Are you seriously trying to give me the gitgud talk? Because I said the clone is an issue? Even tho Ive made threads calling out crybabies? Lawl these randoms are killing me.

 

[Cossner]

What does that have to do with this discussion...?

You have no idea what happens behind the scenes. You have no idea who beats who in what in anything. You guide your entire experience in FT3s shown on stream, not the FT200 that we play here, so shut the fuck up lol

 

[tjcombowins]

Sub zero needs to be nerfed, he's to easy to play. Clones just to good in this game.

 

[TheIrishFGCguy]

First off, stop insulting people who are genuinely trying to debate with you. All these not-so-subtle posts like the one above "Lawl these randoms" and "Lawl inb4 tym meta catches up".
You're the complaining that it's an issue and you're the one that has failed to give any validate points here whatsoever. You were even asked what you would change if it were to be nerfed and you couldn't think of anything reasonable. Something about breathing room but then saying that wouldn't change much.

Tournaments results are what matter and when everyone tries to play their best. I don't care if you play with them behind the scenes or who beats who in casuals, tournament results are a very valid thing to use in an argument and always have been.

Why don't you come up with some decent points instead of constantly acting superior? Surely if you play FT200 then you have a good understanding of what could be done the make the ice clone more balanced in your opinion?

 

[Bidu]

I overcame 2-8 match ups every tournament I went to for Injustice. Are you seriously trying to give me the gitgud talk? Because I said the clone is an issue? Even tho Ive made threads calling out crybabies? Lawl these randoms are killing me.

We ain't talking about Injustice here, are we? And no, I didn't knew. Didn't paid much attention to Injustice scene pretty close. But I didn't call you a bad player for one second. I said that you obviously don't know the match up and how to handle with it. Or am I lying and in the end you are just losing because klone is too OP?

What would you suggest to change in the Ice Klone? And if you say "5 seconds cooldown" I'm travelling to US to slap you in the face (it's a joke, if you don't get it, bro )

 

[haketh]

You have no idea what happens behind the scenes. You have no idea who beats who in what in anything. You guide your entire experience in FT3s shown on stream, not the FT200 that we play here, so shut the fuck up lol

You could ahve actually talked about the sets & experiences & opinions on the MU & we probably wouldn't be here right now with this thread being pretty useless.

 

[Rude]

Wow. This escalated quickly.

Anyway, i think Sub Zero is a very good character whose clone can dictate the pace of a match.

Which isn't necessarily bad at all. My concern is with overtampering with the clone to unviability. Sub Zero needs to be viable and if you fool with the core of his gameplay too much, you ruin him.

 

[Cossner]

You could ahve actually talked about the sets & experiences & opinions on the MU & we probably wouldn't be here right now with this thread being pretty useless.

Im at work with my phone, i can look at it for 10 seconds every 20 min. I can post more later.

 

[Rude]

While i think that coming into the thread and producing vague, "you just don't know, filthy casual" talking points isn't exactly productive, neither is "lol lern teh match up scrub."

Both are pretty terrible attitudes to produce any kind of discussion. Which, to be honest, i doubt ever really happens on these forums anymore.

 

[haketh]

Im at work with my phone, i can look at it for 10 seconds every 20 min. I can post more later.

Aight that makes sense then.

Back on the topic of Clone I admit my opinion is colored because I play Reptile & Ermac, two characters that fight Sub well & I'm wondering who are the most screwed over seemingly no answer to Clone characters?

 

[TheIrishFGCguy]

While i think that coming into the thread and producing vague, "you just don't know, filthy casual" talking points isn't exactly productive, neither is "lol lern teh match up scrub."

Both are pretty terrible attitudes to produce any kind of discussion. Which, to be honest, i doubt ever really happens on these forums anymore.

Did anybody of actually say that? Anyway, it's up to the person suggesting the changes to present them, and then the rest of us can talk about why we disagree. How are we to debate if the person suggesting it needs to be changed doesn't actually give any reason as to why?

 

[Rude]

Did anybody of actually say that? Anyway, it's up to the person suggesting the changes to present them, and then the rest of us can talk about why we disagree. How are we to debate if the person suggesting it needs to be changed doesn't actually give any reason as to why?

I was summarizing.

Short version: You're BOTH being shitty to each other.

 

[coolwhip]

Did anybody of actually say that? Anyway, it's up to the person suggesting the changes to present them, and then the rest of us can talk about why we disagree. How are we to debate if the person suggesting it needs to be changed doesn't actually give any reason as to why?

While there isn't enough evidence yet, the evidence lies in actually watching gameplay footage of Sub Zero mauling people into the corner and keeping them there.

 

[TheIrishFGCguy]

I was summarizing.

Short version: You're BOTH being shitty to each other.

Well, my first post here was a question followed by me saying Sub Zero was fine. He responded with "You're clueless." and then didn't give me a reason as to why when I asked him about.
So, this could have all been avoided had he not insulted me for absolutely no reason and then failed to give a point.

I have no doubt that if he plays with these pro players the he has valuable insight on this topic, but if he would actually share it instead of just insulting everyone then maybe we wouldn't be here and other people wouldn't be so quick to jump on him. Oh and even if he is at work and can't talk about it right now that's fair enough, but he could have said that earlier.

 

[M.D.]

Doesn't matter where I go all I see from you is cry all day long over Sub-Zero. It's getting old already. And pathetic to be honest.

You are aware that every single character in the game can punish Sub-Zero's strings into Klone on reaction, right? If your variation doesn't just pick another variation. The video Tom posted (if you even watched it until the end, which I bet you didn't ) shows that. It starts with Kung Lao, but then shows a lot of others characters punished Sub. Characters like Ermac and Jacqui can punish Klone on reaction with or without meter.

Well, first of all, I didn't cry about SubZero, I cried about the video. You would have understood that if you would have actually read what I said instead of dismissing it on the spot.

And yes, making a huge fuss that sub zero is not safe, and then showing Kung Lao punishing it like the new discovery of unobtanium is something I do not agree with.

It's incredibly obvious Sub is one of the characters that most of the cast has trouble with. If the video was done like "look, it's not that bad, you can find some ways out, even if you have to use meter most of the time and then afterwards if you make a bad read or choice you're back where you started from", yes. But acting like punishing Sub with spin was the second coming of Christ is just lame.