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General/Other - Ferra/Torr [EO Beta] Ferra/Torr Beta Changes

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AceOfKnaves

Hallucin8
Damn this thread is crazy.

2f4 being special- cancelable is absolutley amazing.

as for EX-Bf2 extending combos honestly a fair balance IMO would just make the gravity a bit heavier so it can;t be used to extend to 70% and we would still have a new awesome tool.

now with all this new exposure, Im going to miss the days when mopping someone with F/T resulted in jaw dropping, and now just end in salt, then again, F/T just may creep back into the shadows of the community when Quad-Borg and Alien come out
 

Kamikaze_Highlander

PSN: Windude008
50% optimal 1 bar BnB's. Ridiculous meterless. 70% in the corner
Which all come at a cost, quite a heavy one, either with a bar or with the damage from PnG, chef's 74% cost him 15%, heck they might even bump up the self inflicted damage from PnG, in fact they prolly should if this is going to stay. Heavy punishes have always been Ruthless' niche.

What really matters is how all the other characters buffs counter this, once we have the whole package for a while we can start to discuss what's OP or not.
 

The Ultimate

aka CommandThrower
I'd argue that Vicious should be the only variation to get the MB Ferra projectiles, since Vicious is supposed to be the Ferra centric variation, but I won't complain if Ruthless also gets the MB Ferra projectiles.

On that note, I have a question. Is there a variation in this game that has a MB version of a move that exists between all three variations, it's just that one variation has the MB version? I honestly can't think of one.
 

Kamikaze_Highlander

PSN: Windude008
On that note, I have a question. Is there a variation in this game that has a MB version of a move that exists between all three variations, it's just that one variation has the MB version? I honestly can't think of one.
Kinda? technically Lackey and R/V share db2 input (different special tho), that can be meter burned whereas currently R/V can't
 
Divekick and teleport are both full combo punishable on whiff you know :p
and he does have a big hitbox & slow buttons
I would never have thought that F/T would ever have a chance of contending with Lao. But now F/T has a full screen 50/50 mix-up that launches and crushes projectiles. And that's just one of his buffs. I'm happy for these changes, but damn. That'll likely be scary as hell.
 

Kamikaze_Highlander

PSN: Windude008
A lot of kneejerk reactions in this thread lol.
I'd bet money that most of those are coming from people who don't play them. While I am ecstatic about the buffs and they no doubt huge buffs, I doubt they will break the character, we could always see some nerfs coming along with these.
 

Kamikaze_Highlander

PSN: Windude008
I would never have thought that F/T would ever have a chance of contending with Lao. But now F/T has a full screen 50/50 mix-up that launches and crushes projectiles. And that's just one of his buffs. I'm happy for these changes, but damn. That'll likely be scary as hell.
Like always it depends a lot on the player, but the Lao match up isn't too bad, I'd say pretty even. Lao has better mixups and pressure, F/T has better damage and ranged options. it might be 6/4 to F/T, since we have options to get out of Lao pressure.
 

Wetdoba

All too easy...
I would never have thought that F/T would ever have a chance of contending with Lao. But now F/T has a full screen 50/50 mix-up that launches and crushes projectiles. And that's just one of his buffs. I'm happy for these changes, but damn. That'll likely be scary as hell.
Its not a 50 50 full screen though, you can react
 
Like always it depends a lot on the player, but the Lao match up isn't too bad, I'd say pretty even. Lao has better mixups and pressure, F/T has better damage and ranged options. it might be 6/4 to F/T, since we have options to get out of Lao pressure.
I always liked Lackey before because of blowing up Lao's wake-up with f2 xx Charge. But now I have no idea. It'll take me months to figure out match-ups again, and that's if they don't nerf him or touch him at all.
 

SylverRye

Official Loop Kang Main
Paulo said it on a stream. Someone took a screenshot of it, but I don't know who. I saw it myself. He said that this was the last update unless bug fixes and such are needed.
I took the screenshot just because i knew people would doubt but meh. They will see when its 2 months after kp2 and we get nothing but bug fixes lol
 

SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
Which all come at a cost, quite a heavy one, either with a bar or with the damage from PnG, chef's 74% cost him 15%, heck they might even bump up the self inflicted damage from PnG, in fact they prolly should if this is going to stay. Heavy punishes have always been Ruthless' niche.

What really matters is how all the other characters buffs counter this, once we have the whole package for a while we can start to discuss what's OP or not.
You're talking to a Kano player who's character got nerfed in ONE DAY because he did "too much damage", which was less than I'm seeing currently with less plus frames, no cancels, less range, while also losing 15% to get there. Can't justify "cost" of reward to me when my character got nerfed for less.

From what we've seen so far, F/T has by far the most significant buffs out of everyone while already being good, while a few top tiers were nerfed either somewhat or heavily.
 

SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
I
On that note, I have a question. Is there a variation in this game that has a MB version of a move that exists between all three variations, it's just that one variation has the MB version? I honestly can't think of one.
Things I can think of that relate are Ermac having Lift in all 3 variations, but Mystic Lift launches meterless while the other two require meter. Mileena having a low Sai in one variation. But most relative is Johnny Nut Punch having a MB after normal NP in A-List to continue combos, but you can't MB on hit in the other two variations.
 

Kamikaze_Highlander

PSN: Windude008
Some people regard Jax as S tier just because I can't play him that well doesn't make them wrong.... are you picking up what I'm putting down?
Yes but also saying a character is "s+ tier but I can't play them at level" invalidates whatever opinion you have.

even with these buffs F/T being s is an overestimate. this is not nearly as big a buff as png cancels.
 

dennycascade

UPR_ghastem
I think that the EX ferra throws being Vicious-exclusive is a great idea actually. Here's why:
Overhead/Low toss off of any string is not a mixup. It's always fuzzyable. The overhead is strictly for hit confirming strings into a launcher, which ruthless can already do meterlessly, so it really has no use for the EX overhead. The low is for extending combos that are already airborne, giving outrageous damage to ruthless which it does not need, but it would be fair in Vicious since it does not have a damage buff.
B121 into f2 being a viable hit confirm, along with better hit advantage on strings and 2f4 PnG setups are already more than enough to make Ruthless very good.
Vicious, on the other hand actually needs these EX tosses because without them it cannot hit confirm into launchers, and being able to extend combos with EX bowl girl for a bar (giving him 40-42% 1 bar) is fair for this variation since it doesn't get run cancel pressure or damage buffs. The EX bowl girl would also be a good neutral tool to make Vicious' neutral space control scarier.

What do you guys think of my reasoning?
 
I think that the EX ferra throws being Vicious-exclusive is a great idea actually. Here's why:
Overhead/Low toss off of any string is not a mixup. It's always fuzzyable. The overhead is strictly for hit confirming strings into a launcher, which ruthless can already do meterlessly, so it really has no use for the EX overhead. The low is for extending combos that are already airborne, giving outrageous damage to ruthless which it does not need, but it would be fair in Vicious since it does not have a damage buff.
B121 into f2 being a viable hit confirm, along with better hit advantage on strings and 2f4 PnG setups are already more than enough to make Ruthless very good.
Vicious, on the other hand actually needs these EX tosses because without them it cannot hit confirm into launchers, and being able to extend combos with EX bowl girl for a bar (giving him 40-42% 1 bar) is fair for this variation since it doesn't get run cancel pressure or damage buffs. The EX bowl girl would also be a good neutral tool to make Vicious' neutral space control scarier.

What do you guys think of my reasoning?
I pretty much agree with this 100%. Maybe 98%. We'll see after the patch.
 

MK Led

Umbasa
I think that the EX ferra throws being Vicious-exclusive is a great idea actually. Here's why:
Overhead/Low toss off of any string is not a mixup. It's always fuzzyable. The overhead is strictly for hit confirming strings into a launcher, which ruthless can already do meterlessly, so it really has no use for the EX overhead. The low is for extending combos that are already airborne, giving outrageous damage to ruthless which it does not need, but it would be fair in Vicious since it does not have a damage buff.
B121 into f2 being a viable hit confirm, along with better hit advantage on strings and 2f4 PnG setups are already more than enough to make Ruthless very good.
Vicious, on the other hand actually needs these EX tosses because without them it cannot hit confirm into launchers, and being able to extend combos with EX bowl girl for a bar (giving him 40-42% 1 bar) is fair for this variation since it doesn't get run cancel pressure or damage buffs. The EX bowl girl would also be a good neutral tool to make Vicious' neutral space control scarier.

What do you guys think of my reasoning?
Yeah I pretty much agree too, but I'd prefer to wait until we get the actual patch to come to any real conclusions.
 
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Trauma_and_Pain

Filthy Casual
I think that the EX ferra throws being Vicious-exclusive is a great idea actually...
What do you guys think of my reasoning?
Essentially I agree. Not entirely sure what they were thinking with giving Ruthless all this, but it makes sense for Vicious. Vicious is the counterzoning/space control variation and it also works for the things you mentioned.

My reaction to all this is basically:

Lackey : Hmm, okay. Not too far off from what I expected.
Vicious: Damn, nice.
Ruthless: :eek:
 

Kamikaze_Highlander

PSN: Windude008
What do you guys think of my reasoning?
I think Ruthless should keep the MB low. all three variations options at fullscreen are less than stellar. Giving Ruthless something that can bring the opponent back to them isn't going to far imo. it's not like its not reactable outside of midscreen, or minus on block.
 
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