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General/Other - Sub-Zero Does Predator Invalidate Sub-Zero?

Does Predator Invalidate Sub-Zero

  • No

    Votes: 58 38.4%
  • Yes

    Votes: 47 31.1%
  • Too early too tell

    Votes: 46 30.5%

  • Total voters
    151

Da Tac0

GT: C88 Taco
You can do 40% midscreen with cryo 1 bar. Predator probably has that nerf bat headed his way once targeted demographic gets the release. Let's not compare until then.
 

ZeZe

The smart stuff!
You can do 40% midscreen with cryo 1 bar. Predator probably has that nerf bat headed his way once targeted demographic gets the release. Let's not compare until then.
What is 40% for one bar, to Hunter's meterless 45% midscreen I just saw on Preddie forum.
But yeah, you're probably right about the nerfbat. As much as I would love to see some Sub mains at tournaments (chances are very low now) I'd hate to see Pred destroyed with over-nerfing.
 
I'll do my best and try to address that. Sub v Pred:

- Projectile department:
Sub ice ball is slow, punishable by everyone up close and does no chip dmg if blocked from afar (in fact it's the only projectile the does no chip, correct me if i'm wrong). You can also jump over it. EX version eats projectiles (but not the Pred's ones, they are too high up). Preds disks outo-track you, can catch you in the air, so no jumping, they do chip dmg, but are punishable up close just as Sub's snow ball. So it is no chip against chip (in favour of Pred), Preds projectiles prevent jump ins (which are godly in this game), EX ice ball will not eat them, they are too high up. They are both punishable up close though. When both projectiles hit however, you can combo off them.

- GM: his trapping tool is unreliable, disappears on block, pokes go through it, if you decide to cancel into clone in the corner you have to be prepared it will not work out because hitbox wasn't breathing in Sub's favour. In severe situations if you try to cancel into MB Klone, you might not only lose meter but also get punished. So basically clone is good as shield or sometimes projectile, but if you wish to make further usage of it, like cancel into it, you are risking. Hunter's traps stay on block, cover great range if you toss them mid screen and detonate (and Pred doesn't need to stay next to them to detonate it). So it's better keep away tool. Opponent gets launched and you can combo off it. Plus, Hunter deals more damage. His only minus so far is his mobility. Although bf4 covers big range, it's punishable by Sub. And we are yet to see what else can be done with Hunter's traps. He can also toss them from air. So far he seams to be better, mostly because he has CONSISTENCY. And Sub doesn't.

- Unbreakable: all Pred variations have dmg mitigating tools and when meter burned no chip damage, which is what ice aura is all about. The thing is Pred deals far more dmg then Unbreakable and has far more better anti airs (disks for example). I mean, no contest. Pred wins here hands down. Also SZ's Shield has too much recovery, and anybody who shoots 2 projectiles in a row is guaranteed to hit him on the second one.

- Cryomancer: if you wanna rush down character, any Predator variation is better. Cryo's hammer is slow, punishable (Pred's amazing d4), he struggles building meter, cannot even cancel normal hammer for it. Has useless air hammer. Warrior Pred is a b(e)ast if it goes for damage so far.

So far really no reason to stick with Sub-Zero other then character loyalty. Things might change in future, although for GM it is more about game mechanics messing his klone set-ups, and that might be pretty hard to repair.
all fair points but sub still has a better wake up game and an overhead starter + sub zero dose not constantly gyrate his cock around like a sexual 'predator'
 

Zoidberg747

My blades will find your heart
Sub zero players are heavily under estimating how important having a safe armored wakeup and armor reversal is in this game.

That being said I could see predator
being better. I do also hope they fix clone eventually.

Edit: Ice burst probably isn't safe against every character. Still a good wakeup
 
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Colares

Noob
I don't play a character because of his strength or certain playstyle. I play a certain character because I love the character. I started playing sub in mk9 cause I loved how the character looks and because he is an antagonist to annoying and always overhyped Boon's pet Scorpion.

I will always play Sub, no matter how underpowered he gets. If you love the character you can be good with a character, if you play someone just because he's the most powerfull, then maybe you should play other games or do other things. I never ever in my life in any game period played a character that I didn't like visually and story-wise, tiers have zero effect on me whatsoever.

Just my opinion though.
It's ok to choose the first characters due to varied reasons,
Character loyalty is dumb if you wanna play to be the best and to win the biggest prizes.
You can between the viable options pick the character you like the most but picking Jade on MK9 is 100% guarantee you will not win the tournament; even if you practice 10 years with Jade a week 1 kenshi will destroy you.
For you to be able to choose which character to play and compete they have to be tournament viable and this thread asks if Predator makes Sub unviable due to similarities in gameplan with grandmaster so far his only competitive variation as the results have shown.
This train was started by Tom Brady which gameplay and love with sub is all about the Clone and predator does the work of the clone better according to him so why not change characters.
TLDR if you want to compete you should pick the strongest that suits you among the viable;
If you only play sub for grandmaster some people are saying that changing to Predator/hunter is better
if you think Sub still viable and not outclassed the forum would love your arguments and videos proving that
if you don't care about tournament results play whatever you like and the most important is to have fun but winning is also fun
 

LinKueiLegend

The true Grandmaster
It's ok to choose the first characters due to varied reasons,
Character loyalty is dumb if you wanna play to be the best and to win the biggest prizes.
You can between the viable options pick the character you like the most but picking Jade on MK9 is 100% guarantee you will not win the tournament; even if you practice 10 years with Jade a week 1 kenshi will destroy you.
For you to be able to choose which character to play and compete they have to be tournament viable and this thread asks if Predator makes Sub unviable due to similarities in gameplan with grandmaster so far his only competitive variation as the results have shown.
This train was started by Tom Brady which gameplay and love with sub is all about the Clone and predator does the work of the clone better according to him so why not change characters.
TLDR if you want to compete you should pick the strongest that suits you among the viable;
If you only play sub for grandmaster some people are saying that changing to Predator/hunter is better
if you think Sub still viable and not outclassed the forum would love your arguments and videos proving that
if you don't care about tournament results play whatever you like and the most important is to have fun but winning is also fun
Well I'm pretty sure DJT has taken Sub Zero to top 8 on multiple occasions. I mean yeah he uses Tempest Lao as well but I mean. That wouldn't be the only time Sub was in top 8.
 
I already said they we're similar but that doesn't mean that Predator makes Subzero "invalid" like the thread title or TB would make him out to be. This started when TB shut my opinion down because he claimed I don't play either character, Hunter or GM, when he was simply talking out of his ass and I in fact do play GM and have as much experience with hunter as anyone else that downloaded him 12 hours ago lol
Look.. I never said SZ was invalid nor did I make this thread. I just said I was switching because, IN MY OPINION, Predator's trapping is better version of SZ's. You disagree which is fine... We were arguing opinions with one another. I only commented that you knowledge is GM is far more lacking then anyone's knowledge of Predator. Yes, you have a few hours of exp more then us on Predator. However, some of these guys have months more exp on SZ then you do and exp in high level tourney play with him at that. People here are in a far better position to compare the 2 characters then you are as their exp is only lacking hours with Predator, where as you are lacking far more time in then that as SZ. This is not called shitting on someone, its called the truth.

You have your opinion that they are not similar, I and others have theirs. I do agree that just because one character comes out that it does not invalidate another. SZ deals with the neutral game in a different manner then Predator so they are not the same exact character.

Your opinion is fine and not called into question, only your expertise as GM SZ. You didn't just state opinion and leave, you then kept conversing in an attempt to make a convincing argument which is why your expertise came into question. No one shit on you..
 
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Colares

Noob
Well I'm pretty sure DJT has taken Sub Zero to top 8 on multiple occasions. I mean yeah he uses Tempest Lao as well but I mean. That wouldn't be the only time Sub was in top 8.
He didn't use Sub in any other match if not the one vs MIT AFAIK that is his main training partner the layers of mix up to that match could've gotten to "which character my brother has played less vs me".
 
Well I'm pretty sure DJT has taken Sub Zero to top 8 on multiple occasions. I mean yeah he uses Tempest Lao as well but I mean. That wouldn't be the only time Sub was in top 8.
Isn't it funny how this is assumed yet actually untrue? Neither myself nor DJT have actually ever placed top 8 as a SZ main in MKX. DJT has however used him once or twice for a match or 2 once inside the top 8 of a major.

Both myself and DJT agree that SZ needs ex clone fix and it needs to remain on block. You'd see him using SZ much more if that happened. It's not ever getting fixed so DJT left a while ago and, rather then continue to "cry" about it, i'm switching after EVO.

Points in this thread of players dropping SZ for Predator automatically means SZ is invalid I don't agree with. I honestly dont see why it matters who is dropping SZ for who. Im not dropping SZ because he is bad, I'm dropping him because a key move doesnt work.
 
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LinKueiLegend

The true Grandmaster
Isn't it funny how this is assumed yet actually untrue?. Neither myself nor DJT have actually ever placed top 8 as a SZ main in MKX. DJT has however used him onec or twice for a match or 2 once inside the top 8.

Both myself and DJT agree that SZ needs ex clone fix and it needs to remain on block. You'd see him using SZ much more if that happened.
But the chances of that are damn near impossible
 

ZeZe

The smart stuff!
@themilkman014 maybe you should have worded more clearly if you meant invalidate on high competitive level. I guess all those "NOs" are coming from people who hallucinated legions of Sub mains during offline majors all placing top 8.
 

Samsara

Resident Cynic
@themilkman014 maybe you should have worded more clearly if you meant invalidate on high competitive level. I guess all those "NOs" are coming from people who hallucinated legions of Sub mains during offline majors all placing top 8.
I'm talking about the character as a whole. As of now the only thing people are arguing about is the clone/setup potential. I have seen little to no discussion about the other two other than your post a bit ago. I suppose I could edit the OP for clarity but I expect people to keep discussion centered on high-level/competitive play. It's not my fault if what they picture is anything other than what I've asked. I'll take your consideration into account.
 

RagingRicans

NetBattles
I'm still playing playing Sub zero:) I also think subby is a better character and wins the match up against predator.

Come at me
 

The_Tile

Your hole is mine!
I understand... I must admit however that MoS and Hat Trick fell to the wayside of my memory, I suppose Summoner Quan is a trap character as well, his corner game is excellent as well in a lot of respects.
To be fair, Summoner Quan can basically be a rush down character, vortex character, zoning character or trap character if you really wanna play him that way.

But I digress...
 

Da Tac0

GT: C88 Taco
What is 40% for one bar, to Hunter's meterless 45% midscreen I just saw on Preddie forum.
But yeah, you're probably right about the nerfbat. As much as I would love to see some Sub mains at tournaments (chances are very low now) I'd hate to see Pred destroyed with over-nerfing.
Lol. Probably right? He's on dat Kung Jin time. His combos are easy with too much reward. Oh it's coming. It's not a matter of if but when it'll happen.
 

NB Semi Evil Ryu

Former Sub-Zero of the Midwest (2011 - 2015)
<=========
You had your shot at UFGT X and you lost the match via tap out when you switched away from Sub-Zero after the first game in the set. This knocked you out of #1 contention. Mr. Rican is next in line for my belt.

.......unless you want to come to this Saturday's Godlike Saturday and challenge him for the #1 spot! I would fully endorse this.

.......or you can just come, break his controller, and leave. (which would be the equivalent of another wrestler interrupting a match via breaking the #1 contender's limbs to put him out of commission)

Either or.
 

RM Truth

Unintentional Tier Whore Follow me @TruthRM
You had your shot at UFGT X and you lost the match via tap out when you switched away from Sub-Zero after the first game in the set. This knocked you out of #1 contention. Mr. Rican is next in line for my belt.

.......unless you want to come to this Saturday's Godlike Saturday and challenge him for the #1 spot! I would fully endorse this.

.......or you can just come, break his controller, and leave. (which would be the equivalent of another wrestler interrupting a match via breaking the #1 contender's limbs to put him out of commission)

Either or.
My Sub-Zero came back from injury (a new game came out), which in wrestling means I automatically get another shot at the title for no reason.