Question Did new patch break the game completely?

[Mikemetroid]

It broke my heart

 

[meanzuga]

Well, I hope Im wrong, but im usually not.

Hahahahahahaha ahhh fuck target ran out of bleach

 

[B. Shazzy]

if all d2s become the same exact button then there will still be characters that benefit from it more than others. It'll just be based on what ranges they play at, the recovery of other normals, and other factors same with normalizing all pokes. Making one move exactly the same for every character isn't how you balance a fighting game.

if the game itself says " here, this is the universal antiair button. oh and it's only reliable for you and you" not to mention the problem people have with over powered jump ins in this game, youre telling me that's part of balance, a select few given a non combo starter aa over handing out launching armor to deal with jump ins ? because that's part of the reason these guys want their armor back.

but pls go on lul

 

[Nu-Skoool]

Personally I like the direction the game moved in with this patch. Truth be told, I hate armored launchers.

Armored moves should be reserved as get off me specials with moderate reward and high risk. In other words they should reset neutral, and not much else. Of course for some characters you can tip the risk/reward scale left or right, but the standard should never be big damage, into more pressure.

 

[mkl]

if the game itself says " here, this is the universal antiair button. oh and it's only reliable for you and you" not to mention the problem people have with over powered jump ins in this game, youre telling me that's part of balance, a select few given a non combo starter aa over handing out launching armor to deal with jump ins ? because that's part of the reason these guys want their armor back.

but pls go on lul

What 2D game gives a universal great anti-air button? That's a privilege not a right and is essential for character variety.

 

[JDM]

not sure how else defense could be buffed. Offense is not that strong anymore. You need to rely on react-blocking and counterpoking. Very rarely do you just have to "take shit" just because. If you nerf offense even more I'm pretty sure this game will become a zoning fest (not that I would complain, just saying).

Run cancel characters are all wayyyy weaker. I feel like actual zoning and defensive characters are very good right now. Can't imagine offense being even weaker.

 

[JDM]

What 2D game gives a universal great anti-air button? That's a privilege not a right and is essential for character variety.

Um Mortal Kombat has always lol. Uppercuts have always been the go to anti air for MK games. I agree D2's should have been buffed across the board.

 

[thlityoursloat]

I just want them to properly nerf jumpins for once and properly buff D2s.

 

[B. Shazzy]

What 2D game gives a universal great anti-air button? That's a privilege not a right and is essential for character variety.

the mortal kombat series?

but ok lul tell me why ferra torr a big character with no zoning capabilities has a worse antiair than dvorah a character with like 3 different projectiles and the ability to rushdown better than f/t does but with slightly less damage output.

a game having variety is barely relevant when talking about a specific character being competitively balanced. what privilege does f/t have that makes him broken unless he isnt given a real d2.

 

[usedcarsalesmang]

Cant wait for MKXXXL.

 

[mkl]

the mortal kombat series?

but ok lul tell me why ferra torr a big character with no zoning capabilities has a worse antiair than dvorah a character with like 3 different projectiles and the ability to rushdown better than f/t does but with slightly less damage output.

a game having variety is barely relevant when giving reasons about making a character competitively balanced. what privilege does f/t have that makes him broken unless he isnt given a real d2.

lol @ using d2s to anti-air in the original 2D games. Point taken though, they did have normalized d2s. They're virtually the only ones out there that do. What would F/T having a normal d2 even solve for them? They're still going to have glaring issues that will be exploited cast wide.

 

[B. Shazzy]

lol @ using d2s to anti-air in the original 2D games. Point taken though, they did have normalized d2s. They're virtually the only ones out there that do. What would F/T having a normal d2 even solve for them? They're still going to have glaring issues that will be exploited cast wide.

the peace of mind to walk around the screen knowing my opponent can jump and i can just d2 and be fine is a big deal. dvorah players think they're hot shit for jab antiairs but when it hits the fan they d2 for a reason lul

these types of fundamental buffs will make people want to play different characters not buffs like safe halfscreen armor for kitana bums which makes all the scrubs just bandwagon the next toptier

 

[FL Rushdown]

if the game itself says " here, this is the universal antiair button. oh and it's only reliable for you and you" not to mention the problem people have with over powered jump ins in this game, youre telling me that's part of balance, a select few given a non combo starter aa over handing out launching armor to deal with jump ins ? because that's part of the reason these guys want their armor back.

but pls go on lul

I'm not saying that the game is well balanced, I'm not saying that it's fair, I'm just saying that normalizing a particular move across all characters makes the game LESS balanced. Less variety(while still having some) does not automatically increase a games balance. Obviously you could take this argument to the extreme and have a game with perfect clones and it'd be balanced, but the less variance there is the bigger the impact of that variance. Normalizing one move across all characters just increases the gaps they have in other areas. A character having bad anti airs is a way to balance a character, by design weaknesses allow you to make stronger and more interesting characters with more dynamic matchups.

If 2 characters are exactly the same except ones d1 is 6 frames and the other is 7 frames the matchup is a theoretical 10-0.

Tl;dr it's not that the moves being different is a problem, it's just who they're giving the better versions to that is.

 

[M.D.]

If you compare how said "top tiers" were brought down a notch, towards the <middle>, like someone did show on stream, let's look at A-list vs Shiray Ryu:

A-list:

* complete fucktard all cancels and pressure
* increased stamina cost
* nerfed frame advantage, got rid of 80% jails
* complete loss of armor launcher
* ALSO ADDED imbecile input restriction on block which differs from hit
* only armor move now a high, can't get out of corner, can be baited

Shiray ryu:

* small gap after 2+4 kunai, can be armored for 12% lol
* mid armor move that can also launch for extra bar
* STILL HAS idiotic pressure with broken f1 mid
* STILL can do infinite reps if you don't armor out in the gap, because of pushback (d1, d3 pokes don't reach and you get f1-ed again)
* gets TWO safe reps with teleport cancels.
* still the same bullshit character with constant pressure spam and non stop guessing games where you can d1 or armor out for 10% which NOBODY CARES about because he'll get up and f1 you again.


Now, keep in mind I don't have a problem with how Takeda works, and I'm not saying nerf him more. My problem is with A-list and how it got "balanced" in the gutter following the bullshit statement - bringing everyone to the same level -.

If A-list is now considered on the same level with Shiray Ryu i'll sell the game and pick up Tetris.

 

[KHTC Takgillo]

If you compare how said "top tiers" were brought down a notch, towards the <middle>, like someone did show on stream, let's look at A-list vs Shiray Ryu:

A-list:

* complete fucktard all cancels and pressure
* increased stamina cost
* nerfed frame advantage, got rid of 80% jails
* complete loss of armor launcher
* ALSO ADDED imbecile input restriction on block which differs from hit
* only armor move now a high, can't get out of corner, can be baited

Shiray ryu:

* small gap after 2+4 kunai, can be armored for 12% lol
* mid armor move that can also launch for extra bar
* STILL HAS idiotic pressure with broken f1 mid
* STILL can do infinite reps if you don't armor out in the gap, because of pushback (d1, d3 pokes don't reach and you get f1-ed again)
* gets TWO safe reps with teleport cancels.
* still the same bullshit character with constant pressure spam and non stop guessing games where you can d1 or armor out for 10% which NOBODY CARES about because he'll get up and f1 you again.


Now, keep in mind I don't have a problem with how Takeda works, and I'm not saying nerf him more. My problem is with A-list and how it got "balanced" in the gutter following the bullshit statement - bringing everyone to the same level -.

If A-list is now considered on the same level with Shiray Ryu i'll sell the game and pick up Tetris.

I don't like you

 

[dribirut]

It's so fucking simple.. Just buff all d2 across the board to be minimum 9 frames and have low profiling properties like aliens u3

 

[GLoRToR]

I think players mostly relying on armor launchers last version of the game was just a way of sugar coating how powerful jumping can be in this game. Also a lot of the safe armor attacks are still an issue.

Luckily, NRS will still continue to support MKX and the game will improve with each patch. I still feel some jump attacks need to be nerfed and some imbalanced armor attacks need to be addressed.

There's definitely still some "super" characters in this patch that excel in nearly everything that is needed, and more.

Improving Block Breakers, nerfing some jump attacks, giving some characters viable anti-airs, toning some of the ridiculous armor attacks down, and buffing some characters backdashes should be looked into for the next patch. The balance issues will definitely start to rise and become more noticeable once players get more comfortable in this version of the game.

Overall, I like and prefer this version of MKX more than the last one we had. But more improvements are always welcome and should be discussed.

All this ^ and more.
Just please, don't single out moves and call them out, instead make posts like this. This is pure gold.

 

[DDutchguy]

I don't like you

I don't think M.D. likes M.D. either.

 

[SaSSolino]

This patch made the game better, but I agree that there still are some issues, like jumping being even better or Kitana.

I don't think M.D. likes M.D. either.

Dude we should play again sooner or later.

 

[ismael4790]

What puzzles me about nrs is lack of coherence and vision of the future their decisions will bring.

Armor launchers universal removal had good intentions but didn't take into account a fact that is obvious as long as you think about it more than 3 minutes: some characters relied on it much more than others.

Obvious example: Balanced Kenshi, he's not in the game anymore, not even armor and non launch, not even armor and second bar to combo, just NO armor in his absolutely main tool to threat.
Meanwhile another prebottom 5 character like unbreakable sub keeps his almost fullscreen armor launcher. There is 0 coherence in nrs atm.

With such a drastic change in the meta you have to be much more careful with the exceptions for it, or things like this happen.

Besides that, armor launchers removal actually increased the power of offense which was already powerful enough.

I really hope Reo is right and more patches are coming.

 

[Kay___Jay]

I believe the next big thing they should think about is halfscreen mids that go into pressure/stagger. Yes, I'm looking at Takeda right now.
Disclaimer: I play Cassie and I think her b1 is borderline acceptable, maybe even too braindead of a footsie tool.

On the other hand, if we want them to add another mechanic and make people actually walk in footsies and make AAs even more consistent - why don't we all just play SFV?

 

[KHTC Takgillo]

What puzzles me about nrs is lack of coherence and vision of the future their decisions will bring.

Armor launchers universal removal had good intentions but didn't take into account a fact that is obvious as long as you think about it more than 3 minutes: some characters relied on it much more than others.

Obvious example: Balanced Kenshi, he's not in the game anymore, not even armor and non launch, not even armor and second bar to combo, just NO armor in his absolutely main tool to threat.
Meanwhile another prebottom 5 character like unbreakable sub keeps his almost fullscreen armor launcher. There is 0 coherence in nrs atm.

With such a drastic change in the meta you have to be much more careful with the exceptions for it, or things like this happen.

Besides that, armor launchers removal actually increased the power of offense which was already powerful enough.

I really hope Reo is right and more patches are coming.

More patches are coming but u ain t getting nothing

 

[KHTC Takgillo]

I believe the next big thing they should think about is halfscreen mids that go into pressure/stagger. Yes, I'm looking at Takeda right now.
Disclaimer: I play Cassie and I think her b1 is borderline acceptable, maybe even too braindead of a footsie tool.

On the other hand, if we want them to add another mechanic and make people actually walk in footsies and make AAs even more consistent - why don't we all just play SFV?

Takeda is fine what you are proposing will make him unviable

 

[M.D.]

Ah Takeda downplay. Is he the succesor of the Cage trend?

 

[shura30]

Disclaimer: I play Cassie and I think her b1 is borderline acceptable, maybe even too braindead of a footsie tool.

I've been into this discussion a lot of times now
beside the fact that the Cassie witch has been already burned more than once (she got nerfed each patch, including this one)

the b12,4 game is totally different from the other BS advancing mids
what I might say now will be surely irrelevant if this community's next target will be these evil advancing mids (and I'd like to hear from the JC community once their beloved F3 goes high)

but as a Cassie main and loyalist the game you get off our 'best' string has some brain into it just because the gap
you have to read them, they have to read you. There's still decisions to be made on both side unlike the old KK b1 in which he was the one dictating the flow of the situation

b12 is -6 by itself and only +1 after a followup that is reactable to (there is a video around, look for it)
also, damage is low and enders in each variations are just ridicolous beside exnut or takedown

but, read carefully, if they will give Cassie an 11 frame advancing high followed by mids that staggers like everyone else in the game, just please tell me where to sign the contract