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General/Other - Kano Coach Steve's Kano Change List for Potential New Patch

MrInsaynne

MrInsaynne

PG Coach Steve
@SaltShaker @Bird Lao X Now I want you to take a look at this video and understand this. When it comes to special moves, a special move that is 6 frames can punish anything that is -6 as long as it in range. Cassie's B12 string is -6 (as shown below), Cassie on the player 2 side will do a reversal flip kick (which is 6 frames) and the flip kick is punishing me while i am holding block. If you think my block button is broken and im not actually blocking, try it yourself. But I dont write anything out of the blue without knowing what I am talking about. Now if i were to try and punish it with a 6 frame string, it will not punish. I need something 5 frames which no such string or normal exists in this game anymore.

 
DFC

DFC

Cutthroat Truther
I'm not saying Coach is right or wrong here, I'm just saying AI in this game is weird. AI can backdash F33xxDBF4 tick, but as far as I've seen, player cannot. I don't really know if this fits into this discussion.
 
MrInsaynne

MrInsaynne

PG Coach Steve
DougDFC said:
I'm not saying Coach is right or wrong here, I'm just saying AI in this game is weird. AI can backdash F33xxDBF4 tick, but as far as I've seen, player cannot. I don't really know if this fits into this discussion.
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so how about I record the AI doing the string to me and then blocking, and then I do the flip kick? Idk how much more proof you guys need plus this has been stated the first month of the game. A move thats -6,-7,-8 etc can be punished by a special move that starts up in that same number frame, while a string needs to be one frame faster. I know the AI is weird, so would anybody really think I wouldnt test this against another human months into the game?
 
SaltShaker

SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
MrInsaynne said:
@SaltShaker @Bird Lao X Now I want you to take a look at this video and understand this. When it comes to special moves, a special move that is 6 frames can punish anything that is -6 as long as it in range. Cassie's B12 string is -6 (as shown below), Cassie on the player 2 side will do a reversal flip kick (which is 6 frames) and the flip kick is punishing me while i am holding block. If you think my block button is broken and im not actually blocking, try it yourself. But I dont write anything out of the blue without knowing what I am talking about. Now if i were to try and punish it with a 6 frame string, it will not punish. I need something 5 frames which no such string or normal exists in this game anymore.

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Very confusing and new news to me.

Colt himself came in one of Pig's threads about a month back and said that's how it worked when Pig asked about the reversals out of block, which is where I assume everyone got it from since then. Since then I always count one frame out on reversals. If that is the case then I have no idea why Upball wouldn't do the same unless maybe the frame data was possibly wrong? If it's inconstent cast-wise then it's probably a bug issue.
 
MrInsaynne

MrInsaynne

PG Coach Steve
SaltShaker said:
Very confusing and new news to me.

Colt himself came in one of Pig's threads about a month back and said that's how it worked when Pig asked about the reversals out of block, which is where I assume everyone got it from since then. Since then I always count one frame out on reversals. If that is the case then I have no idea why Upball wouldn't do the same unless maybe the frame data was possibly wrong? If it's inconstent cast-wise then it's probably a bug issue.
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this is what I've been saying for a while in here when I mean I want my 6 FRAME UP BALL to PUNISH a -6 MOVE. But nobody clearly knew what I was talking about. Onlypossible explanation is it's not really 6 frames. Otherwise it's a glitch like the rest of up ball

@DougDFC Also to correct you, you can reversal backdash F33 tick throw and you can also reversal armor it as well, and that goes for any tick throw set up, you just cannot jump it. Also tested against a human being because I need factual proof like anyone else.
 
DFC

DFC

Cutthroat Truther
MrInsaynne said:
so how about I record the AI doing the string to me and then blocking, and then I do the flip kick? Idk how much more proof you guys need plus this has been stated the first month of the game. A move thats -6,-7,-8 etc can be punished by a special move that starts up in that same number frame, while a string needs to be one frame faster. I know the AI is weird, so would anybody really think I wouldnt test this against another human months into the game?
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I know about the Kano Up ball thing. It's stupid and absolutely needs to be addressed. I'm just pointing out how weird the in game AI can be.
 
DFC

DFC

Cutthroat Truther
MrInsaynne said:
this is what I've been saying for a while in here when I mean I want my 6 FRAME UP BALL to PUNISH a -6 MOVE. But nobody clearly knew what I was talking about. Onlypossible explanation is it's not really 6 frames. Otherwise it's a glitch like the rest of up ball

@DougDFC Also to correct you, you can reversal backdash F33 tick throw and you can also reversal armor it as well, and that goes for any tick throw set up, you just cannot jump it. Also tested against a human being because I need factual proof like anyone else.
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Huh. When I'm wrong I'm wrong.
 
MrInsaynne

MrInsaynne

PG Coach Steve
I also have to correct my original post because Up Ball cannot punish anything -8 and below, only -9. Doesnt make any sense.

I dont want anybody in here thinking im talking out my behind because i can provide video proof of everything.
 
SaltShaker

SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
MrInsaynne said:
this is what I've been saying for a while in here when I mean I want my 6 FRAME UP BALL to PUNISH a -6 MOVE. But nobody clearly knew what I was talking about. Only possible explanation is it's not really 6 frames. Otherwise it's a glitch like the rest of up ball.
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Yea I know for a fact you've been saying that for at least over a month. Now I finally know why lol. About to test some of these things out with my friend in the house right now. This definitely needs to be addressed because some of the moves around that number in this game make a huge difference.
 
MrInsaynne

MrInsaynne

PG Coach Steve
SaltShaker said:
Yea I know for a fact you've been saying that for at least over a month. Now I finally know why lol. About to test some of these things out with my friend in the house right now. This definitely needs to be addressed because some of the moves around that number in this game make a huge difference.
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I know. I just wish people would actually pay attention to what I write. I've been studying this game and only practicing this game since it came out. I understand fighting games very well from the last 6 years of playing them and being good at it. If anyone needs proof instead of flaming me they can ask me for a video instead or i can even show them in online training mode so they can see for themselves. I dont like wasting time writing something nobody is even gunna read and just instantly bash. that's why i normally refrain from writing on this site in the first place
 
pogse

pogse

Ruthlesss Mayhem
nobody wants more hitstun on EX kano ball on commando? a little easier 29% guaranteed damage too op?
I mean you already got the hit. or they could fix the timing on EX Kano ball so that max range EX kano ball(i.e. F4 > EX Kano) is similar to upclose EX Kano ball (B13 > EX).
 
MrInsaynne

MrInsaynne

PG Coach Steve
pogse said:
nobody wants more hitstun on EX kano ball on commando? a little easier 29% guaranteed damage too op?
I mean you already got the hit. or they could fix the timing on EX Kano ball so that max range EX kano ball(i.e. F4 > EX Kano) is similar to upclose EX Kano ball (B13 > EX).
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I wouldnt be opposed to making the EX Kano ball have more hitstun, it'll make 32-36% easier but i dont think he really needs it.
 
ColdBoreMK23

ColdBoreMK23

Noob Saibot
The only thing I want for Cutthroat Kano is a different animation for his B1. It's fucking useless unless you are right on top of them.

If that happens then I'll main Cutthroat Kano forever and a day.
 
MrInsaynne

MrInsaynne

PG Coach Steve
ColdBoreMK23 said:
The only thing I want for Cutthroat Kano is a different animation for his B1. It's fucking useless unless you are right on top of them.

If that happens then I'll main Cutthroat Kano forever and a day.
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everyone wants that. While it would be nice, the reason why it's still ok the way it is is because Kano always gets a hard knockdown, which means he can always be right on top of them, plus the overhead string is 0 on block, uninterruptable and special cancelable.
 
ColdBoreMK23

ColdBoreMK23

Noob Saibot
MrInsaynne said:
everyone wants that. While it would be nice, the reason why it's still ok the way it is is because Kano always gets a hard knockdown, which means he can always be right on top of them, plus the overhead string is 0 on block, uninterruptable and special cancelable.
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Good point. I just have to get down my spacing with Kano.
 
Brown Cow 54

Brown Cow 54

Noob
GGA Dizzy said:
This move would be overpowered beyond belief if the second hit always connected on block. It's definitely fine how it is, where the second hit is only blocked at absolute max range
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Ya I kind of thought so too. But when should I be using it? I don't see a use for it right now even though I have seen players such as you and digit use it.
 
SaltShaker

SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
MrInsaynne said:
this is what I've been saying for a while in here when I mean I want my 6 FRAME UP BALL to PUNISH a -6 MOVE. But nobody clearly knew what I was talking about. Onlypossible explanation is it's not really 6 frames. Otherwise it's a glitch like the rest of up ball.
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So me and my bud just did some testing to follow up on the Upball stuff you mentioned, and we think it's actually 7 frames but listed as 6. From what we ran through-

-On reversal we can punish Ermac's 22 which is -7, but can't punish F34 which is -6. Against Shinnok we can punish 312 which is -7, but can't punish 11, F3, or 1124 which are -6. However we also can't punish 112 which is -7, the slight pushback on block we believe makes it out of range for the reversal to just frame. We ran through a few other characters as well, but these are the results we came up with.

7F move, that with slight pushback has to punish 8-9 frame moves.

I find this incredibly odd while testing Lao against the same -7 moves as Kano he can full combo punish 100% of the time, and Cassie can -6 full combo punish 90% of the moves tested (only the ones knocking her too far back missed), while Kano can punish no moves at all at -6, and he only punishes moves with no pushback at -7, and he can't even combo off of it.

This is either a gross miss and the move is accidently -7, or it is purposely and the frame data is wrong. Either way some consistency needs to be built in for the move, especially when counterparts have much stronger punishes for the same exact frames.

I finally understand why you thought this was a big issue @MrInsaynne! I agree.
 
MrInsaynne

MrInsaynne

PG Coach Steve
SaltShaker said:
So me and my bud just did some testing to follow up on the Upball stuff you mentioned, and we think it's actually 7 frames but listed as 6. From what we ran through-

-On reversal we can punish Ermac's 22 which is -7, but can't punish F34 which is -6. Against Shinnok we can punish 312 which is -7, but can't punish 11, F3, or 1124 which are -6. However we also can't punish 112 which is -7, the slight pushback on block we believe makes it out of range for the reversal to just frame. We ran through a few other characters as well, but these are the results we came up with.

7F move, that with slight pushback has to punish 8-9 frame moves.

I find this incredibly odd while testing Lao against the same -7 moves as Kano he can full combo punish 100% of the time, and Cassie can -6 full combo punish 90% of the moves tested (only the ones knocking her too far back missed), while Kano can punish no moves at all at -6, and he only punishes moves with no pushback at -7, and he can't even combo off of it.

This is either a gross miss and the move is accidently -7, or it is purposely and the frame data is wrong. Either way some consistency needs to be built in for the move, especially when counterparts have much stronger punishes for the same exact frames.

I finally understand why you thought this was a big issue @MrInsaynne! I agree.
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Some -8 strings can't be punished either (Like Cassie's F33), meanwhile reptiles 212 can be punished and it's -8. But good stuff testing. The problem remains that -6 is unpunishable. I can believe a misread, but the real problem I think it is is that the upball almost never hits on the first active frame, therefore it cant punish some things that are -6,7 or 8 and so on.
 
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