Are Nrs Games The Scrubbiest Games (easiest to learn) in the Fgc?

[FL Rushdown]

It's not the scrubbiest game, but it's by far the scrubbiest community(not talking about tym or high level play just regular online randoms). It's flashy, cool, and relatively easy to get somewhat competent at. You can be an online warrior with pretty much 0 dedication or lab work. Other fighting games weed out people like that over time. NRS seems to have those people stick around indefinitely.

 

[Desperdicio]

It's not the scrubbiest game, but it's by far the scrubbiest community(not talking about tym or high level play just regular online randoms). It's flashy, cool, and relatively easy to get somewhat competent at. You can be an online warrior with pretty much 0 dedication or lab work. Other fighting games weed out people like that over time. NRS seems to have those people stick around indefinitely.

"Regular online randoms" that kick your ass, judging by your complaint.

 

[Qwark28]

Lol like SFIV doesn't have scenarios where people don't mash out of frame traps. C'mon man. Everything you just said; counter hit setups, throw baits and real anti-airs, are in MKX just as much as they are in any other game. You mock me but then can't even come up with a actual example of what makes SFIV that much better. "What's the difference?" is the question you need to be asking yourself, not me.

I'll give you the shitty netcode and toxic community, but the game design is fine.

I have no problem with people disliking the games I like as long as they are for legitimate reasons.

SF4 is a majorly defensive game to the point where the system allows you to OS yet it still isn't enough for most characters to open you up.

Counterhit setups don't exist in the same sense as in SF4 because you're encouraged to tech there and throws offer much better oki in a game where oki is king and certain characters are mediocre simply because they lack a way to set it up to the same magnitude as the top 15. In MKX they're good in a consistent basis only for certain characters.

"Real" anti airs exist in the form of EX moves mostly and some moves completely negate the concept of punishment, e.g subzero J1, outside of the lucky few that have fast armoured ex moves that anti air jumps that have barely left the ground instead of whiffing.

Anti airs in SF4 are much better.

Nobody seemed to care in SFIV when Infiltration just air fireballed is way to timeouts. Or when shotos could tatsu out of the corner and run away the whole game. Or when Ultra's did 70% life. Or Seth's jumping fierce that took up 2/3's of the entire screen like an MvC3 move. Or how incredibly stupid and imbalanced Yun and Yang were when they came out. Or the Sentinal debacle when MvC3 released. Or Sadira having unbreakable combos in KI.

Yes, they did.

Infiltration was regarded as a killer with a top tier character and during his reign he was unbeatable. People recognised that Akuma was also what allowed him to perform so well, other than him being arguably the best player back then.

Tatsu and Ultra damage issues were also widely complained about when in majors you saw Daigo being put in the corner and he just tatsud out. There were some methods to heavily punish it if you were expecting it but most characters didn't have access to them and were royally screwed. When it comes to excessive damage, they were the first things to be fixed, even things that almost paled in comparison, like Akuma's DP fadc shakunetsu doing something like 300 dmg 350 stun.

Yun and Yang was even more of a secondary back in 2011 than Elena is now. Everyone played one of the twins and half the top players had dropped their mains to play one.

Sadira was majorly complained about, people were discrediting CDJR constantly because of it and on the lead to the first EVO everyone was saying about how it was going to be either Sadira or Sabrewulf. Both of us were considered absolutely ridiculous and OP characters in their own separate tier.

 

[Peckapowa]

Uh yea because unblockables in SFIV weren't considered cheap at all. UMvC3 is considered one of the most ridiculous games of all time. 3 wrong guesses and you lose the entire match. It got to the point where they make tournaments 3 out of 5. What other game has had to do that?

But because it's Capcom it's ok. It's a double standard we've come to live with and we accept here. Sounds to me you're just a typical sheep in the fgc who just wants to talk shit on our games and not actually compare it to other fighting games objectively.

As I said, the fgc thinks NRS games are scrubby because got a bad rep from the past and a cry-baby community. Not because it's actually true.

yes sf has/had cheap shit, but when i watch sf played at a high level its an extremely patient spacing oriented reactionary playstyle. I can't say the same about injustice and mkx. I know MK9 and injustice like the back of my hand, mkx i lost interest in because its honestly the most dissappointing game i have ever played even though i knew it would be awful because they really lack understanding on how to design and what even entails rewarding competitive play.

Injustice is fun, but its not a good competitive game, mk9 was the only one that was acceptable barring a few characters and that was after the patching of the beginning and when the meta developed and everyone who played it was not as bad. Injustice is way way too broken, guessing oriented, unbalanced and anti-spacing to be a good competitive game, none of it has to do with execution. I don't think Fighting Games are the best comp. genre for games (they are far too rewarding to guessing and abuse of system rather than true thought and skill and strategy) , they do not have level of thought mobas have, nor the balance of shooters, and i don't think 90% of FGC really understands nrs games enough to have an opinion, but the level of thought and skill (not execution) in SF is far superior because it is designed more intelligently and rewards a much more thoughtful spacing oriented playstyle.

 

[KingHippo]

Are players that call games scrubby the scrubbiest at the games they call scrubby?

Yes.

I think you may have hit the nail on the head, although I wouldn't put it quite so harshly. I think a big problem with the community from the outsider's perspective is that the "authorities" unfortunately never changed.

It's not too uncommon to go to any MK9 VOD to this very day and see comments from this year saying how players like PL and CD Mani were the epitome of the game and it's hard to imagine NRS games without them, etc. While this might just seem like the fangirl squealings of an anonymous internet commenter, I don't think that perception is that different for the majority of the FGC.

I would bet a lot of money that if you were to ask someone at tournament who doesn't play NRS games and is only passingly familiar, they would mention SonicFox (Awesome!), Yomi (Great!), PL (Oh yeah...), Mani/Jr. (Uh...), and Tom Brady (Ooo...). With those last three comes unfortunate baggage.

Whether it be Tom chucking controllers at monitors, Mani ranting about how bad the game is and how everyone is bad, or PL constantly saying online is bad and the game is bad only to pop off about his ESL top 8's, that kind of clownish behavior is really the only thing people see. They don't see guys like Tortoise or RickRaws making funny and awesome memes for the community, or the hard work of people like Eric Z19 and all other podcast organizers who make great products for the games. It's just guys like those three acting dumb on Twitter and having their foot crammed down their mouth so much there's toes coming out the crack of their ass. MK9 was a long time ago, and clutching and clinging to that crutch has just continuously hurt their "brand", IMO, in the FGC.

IF we could shake that sort of negative perception, then yes, I'd say the community could redeem itself. But shaking that is the issue.

 

[Peckapowa]

I think one of the reasons CD JR. rants, is because he's actually a really intelligent player who understands matchups and how to break down the meta game, but he will lose to players who don't have is level of understanding because he hasn't grinded enough to overcome all the bs in the game. Unfortunately you have to grind in a fighting game to learn to block and deal with stupid shit (especially chars like doomsday in injustice and/or flash), and he puts time into both ki and not enough in NRS to win. So he can play someone and understand he is a better fundamental player, but he's not as strongly in tune with the system which requires almost brute force time to adapt to them. I bet a lot of the times he would adapt in a long set and turn the tables, regardless if he plays the game less. mk9 was his primary focus when he was at the top of the game, and he had both grinded enough and superior fundamentals ( and the game has a much greater reward for fundamentals then inj. or mkx). I don't think he should waste his time with MKX, he should focus on street fighter or maybe rising thunder (depending on how good that is) if he wants to invest a lot of time into fighting games.

 

[SneakyTortoise]

The level of condescension and arrogance coming from people who have never achieved anything in fighting games is astonishing.

If mkx is so easy for scrubs to force you to guess, without any skill involved, you'd think the top 8s and winners would be a lot less consistent? I guess sonic and foxy should start playing roulette with their prize money.

 

[xZoro]

The level of condescension and arrogance coming from people who have never achieved anything in fighting games is astonishing.

If mkx is so easy for scrubs to force you to guess, without any skill involved, you'd think the top 8s and winners would be a lot less consistent? I guess sonic and foxy should start playing roulette with their prize money.

I'm pretty sure this restored my faith in humanity.

People who have never achieved anything in this game are the last people who should be criticizing those who actually put time and effort into learning the game, no matter how scrubby it may be.

 

[B. Shazzy]

The level of condescension and arrogance coming from people who have never achieved anything in fighting games is astonishing.

If mkx is so easy for scrubs to force you to guess, without any skill involved, you'd think the top 8s and winners would be a lot less consistent? I guess sonic and foxy should start playing roulette with their prize money.

Starts by calling people arrogant and condescending and then ends the same sentence with something arrogant and condescending.


TYM

Also learn to read, nobody is saying it doesn't take a certain level of competence to win in nrs games.

 

[Braindead]

Why is this thread still open anyway? The OP just posted this to flame and went away and purposefully dodging all questions.

 

[WITNESS]

I'm pretty sure this restored my faith in humanity.

People who have never achieved anything in this game are the last people who should be criticizing those who actually put time and effort into learning the game, no matter how scrubby it may be.

Just because you haven't achieve anything does not mean people don't understand the game

 

[xZoro]

Just because you haven't achieve anything does not mean people don't understand the game

Surely by default the more you understand the more you achieve?
Especially in games like Tekken, where frame data isn't given, and understanding is basically what separates good players from bad.
I digress, for the most part youre probably right. But I was just under the assumption that people who achieve things in the FGC, are those with a higher understanding of how their games work.

 

[WITNESS]

Surely by default the more you understand the more you achieve?
Especially in games like Tekken, where frame data isn't given, and understanding is basically what separates good players from bad.
I digress, for the most part youre probably right. But I was just under the assumption that people who achieve things in the FGC, are those with a higher understanding of how their games work.

That's why we have coaches and players. A coach understands the game better than the player a lot of times but doesn't have the skill or ability as the player. ( Football, basketball ect... )

 

[Slips]

SF4 is a majorly defensive game to the point where the system allows you to OS yet it still isn't enough for most characters to open you up.

Counterhit setups don't exist in the same sense as in SF4 because you're encouraged to tech there and throws offer much better oki in a game where oki is king and certain characters are mediocre simply because they lack a way to set it up to the same magnitude as the top 15. In MKX they're good in a consistent basis only for certain characters.

"Real" anti airs exist in the form of EX moves mostly and some moves completely negate the concept of punishment, e.g subzero J1, outside of the lucky few that have fast armoured ex moves that anti air jumps that have barely left the ground instead of whiffing.

Anti airs in SF4 are much better.


Yes, they did.

Infiltration was regarded as a killer with a top tier character and during his reign he was unbeatable. People recognised that Akuma was also what allowed him to perform so well, other than him being arguably the best player back then.

Tatsu and Ultra damage issues were also widely complained about when in majors you saw Daigo being put in the corner and he just tatsud out. There were some methods to heavily punish it if you were expecting it but most characters didn't have access to them and were royally screwed. When it comes to excessive damage, they were the first things to be fixed, even things that almost paled in comparison, like Akuma's DP fadc shakunetsu doing something like 300 dmg 350 stun.

Yun and Yang was even more of a secondary back in 2011 than Elena is now. Everyone played one of the twins and half the top players had dropped their mains to play one.

Sadira was majorly complained about, people were discrediting CDJR constantly because of it and on the lead to the first EVO everyone was saying about how it was going to be either Sadira or Sabrewulf. Both of us were considered absolutely ridiculous and OP characters in their own separate tier.

I don't really disagree with any of this. My main point is that when other games clearly have broken stuff people may complain but it doesn't tarnish the game's reputation nearly as much as it does NRS games. Our community throws a tantrum while the other fighting game communities shake their head's and snicker. For some reason NRS is held to a higher standard and I don't know why.

yes sf has/had cheap shit, but when i watch sf played at a high level its an extremely patient spacing oriented reactionary playstyle. I can't say the same about injustice and mkx. I know MK9 and injustice like the back of my hand, mkx i lost interest in because its honestly the most dissappointing game i have ever played even though i knew it would be awful because they really lack understanding on how to design and what even entails rewarding competitive play.

Injustice is fun, but its not a good competitive game, mk9 was the only one that was acceptable barring a few characters and that was after the patching of the beginning and when the meta developed and everyone who played it was not as bad. Injustice is way way too broken, guessing oriented, unbalanced and anti-spacing to be a good competitive game, none of it has to do with execution. I don't think Fighting Games are the best comp. genre for games (they are far too rewarding to guessing and abuse of system rather than true thought and skill and strategy) , they do not have level of thought mobas have, nor the balance of shooters, and i don't think 90% of FGC really understands nrs games enough to have an opinion, but the level of thought and skill (not execution) in SF is far superior because it is designed more intelligently and rewards a much more thoughtful spacing oriented playstyle.

Yay more broad opinions with no substance. What makes you an authority on what is good design and what is not. You 'watch' sf and you just assume it's better. Great. You're pretty much a clear cut example of what the problem is.

 

[xZoro]

I don't really disagree with any of this. My main point is that when other games clearly have broken stuff people may complain but it doesn't tarnish the game's reputation nearly as much as it does NRS games. Our community throws a tantrum while the other fighting game communities shake their head's and snicker. For some reason NRS is held to a higher standard and I don't know why.



Yay more broad opinions with no substance. What makes you an authority on what is good design and what is not. You 'watch' sf and you just assume it's better. Great. You're pretty much a clear cut example of what the problem is.

I think the biggest problem is people thinking their opinion is absolute, and cannot be questioned by any other mortal.
Just my 2 cents on that little discussion

 

[KHTC Takgillo]

I don t understand people who say antiair don t exist in MKX, they are just not universal like street fighters uppercuts you just need to grind and find what suit you.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

But that's from a game in beta though, where this kind of feedback is supposed to be sent back to Capcom.

The complaints literally started before the Beta began. People who watched the first exhibition tournament were already declaring things to be OP on Twitter.

 

[B. Shazzy]

Lol like SFIV doesn't have scenarios where people don't mash out of frame traps. C'mon man. Everything you just said; counter hit setups, throw baits and real anti-airs, are in MKX just as much as they are in any other game. You mock me but then can't even come up with a actual example of what makes SFIV that much better. "What's the difference?" is the question you need to be asking yourself, not me.

I'll give you the shitty netcode and toxic community, but the game design is fine.

I have no problem with people disliking the games I like as long as they are for legitimate reasons.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. I wonder however many thousands of people at evo 2016 entering SFV are going to look over at MKX signups, think to themselves, "Well, I would but.. the community is toxic and the netcode is trash. Yeah, those are the only reasons I won't enter a game for a chance to win thousands of dollars."

I feel the type of community a game experiences can be reflective of the type of game it actually is. The negative associations can just be symptoms of the game itself. You get the game you deserve.

Anway, enjoy KP2. I heard this time around we're only getting 4 more Scorpion skins!

 

[Rocket]

No they ain't the easiest fighting games they are just the easiest to play without having a epileptic fit even if you ain't photosensitive every other fighting game is still like looking at the sun after being in a dark room for a day.

 

[FL Rushdown]

"Regular online randoms" that kick your ass, judging by your complaint.

I don't know how you could possibly come to that conclusion from what I said. All I said was it takes less work to have fun in MK than it does in other fighting games.

 

[Slips]

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. I wonder however many thousands of people at evo 2016 entering SFV are going to look over at MKX signups, think to themselves, "Well, I would but.. the community is toxic and the netcode is trash. Yeah, those are the only reasons I won't enter a game for a chance to win thousands of dollars."

I feel the type of community a game experiences can be reflective of the type of game it actually is. The negative associations can just be symptoms of the game itself. You get the game you deserve.

Anway, enjoy KP2. I heard this time around we're only getting 4 more Scorpion skins!

Street Fighter is the 'Coke' of fighting games. It will never be topped unless they do something catastrophic. It really doesn't have much to do with if it's a better game or not.

Pepsi Paradox. Look it up.

 

[Desperdicio]

I don't know how you could possibly come to that conclusion from what I said. All I said was it takes less work to have fun in MK than it does in other fighting games.

Then you're an elitist, and you want only high-level competitive players to play the game, which is ridiculous. It's like complaining that there are casuals in a fighting game. Also, you don't know how much those "online warriors" practiced, so you can't really say "0 dedication or lab work". If they're above casual level, even if it's only a couple BnBs that they know, they've been practicing.

"It's easy to get somewhat competent at this game", is basically what you're saying. How can that affect you if you're so good? If you can beat them, then it's the same whether they're casuals or "somewhat competent". If they give you trouble, then you need to level up your game instead of complain about theirs.

 

[trustinme]

If people continue to defend mkx I shall be forced to write my scathing review after keeping my mouth shut since its release.
U enjoy your day toilet dwellers.

 

[KingHippo]

I think one other thing that is probably underrated in this argument is how much Mortal Kombat resembles a 3D fighter such as Tekken. In fact, if it weren't on a 2D plane, there would be very little separating it; the way the frame data is and how the game is usually turn based is very much reminiscent of a 3D fighter and not Street Fighter. You can see this when players like Coach Steve and Mani (Who claim there is no defense) sit their like bumps on a log trying to just block everything. In 3D games, the defense is very active, which usually consists of moving out of the way with 3D movement like sidestepping, jabbing and thus low profiling high attacks, or using a move that will crush the opponents follow-up (MK uses armor instead of a crush system, it seems). I think that is a big reason why the general populace can't get a feel for MK, since it's such an odd mishmash of the two. I find this more of a strength than a weakness, but to each his own.

 

[virtiqaL]

Then you're an elitist, and you want only high-level competitive players to play the game, which is ridiculous. It's like complaining that there are casuals in a fighting game. Also, you don't know how much those "online warriors" practiced, so you can't really say "0 dedication or lab work". If they're above casual level, even if it's only a couple BnBs that they know, they've been practicing.

"It's easy to get somewhat competent at this game", is basically what you're saying. How can that affect you if you're so good? If you can beat them, then it's the same whether they're casuals or "somewhat competent". If they give you trouble, then you need to level up your game instead of complain about theirs.

How are you jumping to these conclusions based on the posts he's made? Him saying the game is easy to get competent at doesn't imply anything beyond that. You sound as someone who is primarily an online player and getting offended by what he said...

I feel the type of community a game experiences can be reflective of the type of game it actually is. The negative associations can just be symptoms of the game itself. You get the game you deserve.

I feel like this is a point I tried to make in another thread, about how there are several notable players, both those doing well in tournament and otherwise that just seem apathetic and underwhelmed with the game. I feel like that says something about the game itself, not necessarily the result of a "toxic" community.

Though, I will say as of late with the slew of negative MKX threads, that maybe it's getting bashed a little too much at this point. I mean, I definitely wouldn't call it a terrible fighter by any stretch, I just fear it may not have what it takes to retain interest in the long term when compared to the lifespan of MK9, and with games like SFV around the corner.