Are Nrs Games The Scrubbiest Games (easiest to learn) in the Fgc?

[cR WoundCowboy]

Lol. You're using a hyphothesized explanation to discredit a metaphor that represents a million different things. If they literally switched the formulas for the two sodas and put coke in a pepsi bottle and vice versa, I don't think anyone who works in marketing would tell you anything would change. You worked in a restaurant that served only Pepsi products, and people ask for coke because it's gotten to the point that in some areas "coke" is literally used as a term for soda in which they typically just expect a coke in return. The product is so ingrained in our culture that it's almost always the first thing that pops into peoples' heads when they think of soda, and is so reliably available because of that that when they don't want water/tea/beer they know they can just ask for coke.

Do you think marketing's just there for fun? Do you think brand recognition has no impact on a product and their competitors? If so, I recommend you not enter into business. This isn't a theory, it's a fact of the business world that competitor brands often can only look to reduce and rarely replace with themselves.

Look at Uber vs Lyft as another good example. Uber's been trashed in the media for their poor business practices and treatment of workers, but they dominate their market. Meanwhile, Lyft has similar price points and is often better received, while giving better treatment to their drivers. Yet, it doesn't have the name recognition because of the boom that came via Uber, the same way the boom came in competitive fighting games via the capcom scene. How often do you hear someone say "oh let's call an uber"? If you hear someone say "let me call a lyft" you might be like "wait what".

I hear people call lyft every day

 

[cR WoundCowboy]

On topic, all fighting games are broken and scrubby. It's not ideal but it's the reality.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

But I will say this. I've found in my experience it takes a lot less time to master an nrs game than something like tekken or even smash melee.

Well, which NRS games would you consider yourself a master of?

 

[B. Shazzy]

Just for clarities sake about MKX tournament numbers in recent months

Defend the North
SF4- 160
MKX- 80
Marvel- 80

Canada Cup
SF4- 272
Smash- 112
Marvel- 80
MKX- 60

SCR(These are just how big of a bracket they ran, but shows that MKX was at least comparable to SF4 and more than Mahvel)
SF4- 226
MKX- 120
Marvel- 64


So Shaz is right that Marvel pulls more numbers at regionals, but at the last major MKX had almost twice as many entrants as Marvel. NEC will be the true test to see where MKX stands as far as entrants go, IMO.

ya but i cant even remember when marvel came out and mkx isnt even a year old. so being neck and neck like that, it's kind of a big deal that it outlives 2 nrs titles and tieing the 3rd. Injustice wouldn't have made it a 3rd year yet Marvel with infinites and touch of death combos (you guys loveto keep telling me that) goes on for a possible 6th year.

why are we even having any agrument right now. nrs games are generally considered low-tier in the fgc for various reasons - it's not a hard observation to make nor should you take it as personal indictment on your skill. idk how many times i need to repeat "it's ok to like and play nrs games" so you can stop trying to frame me as an anti-nrsfanboy, which btw, i'm sure a lot of you are guilty of on the other side as nrs games are your main games. instead of getting defensive and trying to cushion the fall with your vague "it's all the same, man" and throwing out your skecthy, half-truths examples when it's clearly, clearly not the same according to the majority of fgc and just deal with it.

 

[Rocket]

Well, which NRS games would you consider yourself a master of?

What's this? absolute fuck all from soul bound, i think you put him in his place, redshade.

 

[B. Shazzy]

You know it's great that you are understanding the analogy I put together but you still shit on NRS and their games like they are the sewer system of fighting games.

My point was NRS has got an undeserved reputation. I don't even mind if street fighter is the "McDonald's" of the fgc; virtually untouchable. But you and a lot of players who post of TYM act like MKX and NRS games are the White Castle of fighting games, and that's where the disconnect is.

Can you at least give in that much? Or are you that hellbent on shitting on NRS games?

You still don't get it. While some buy certain brands for status or because it's the popular thing, it won't change people's taste fundamentally. They like what they like and no ad can change your tastebuds. Just look at the results of this "Pepsi Paradox." Coke doesn't have double the market over them because poor little guy Pepsi can't afford the same ads, the same status, whatever. The answer is simply, betweeen the two, Coke owns the better product overall and a flimsy marketing gimmick pulled by Pepsi couldn't convince people into something they liked less. There's no paradox, it's called how the real world works.

Why nrs games have they're reputation spring from various reasons which have been stated so many times. On the subject of gameplay, well, recruiting people with " hey, you know, sfiv/other game had this unqiue cheap thing here once or twice so why don't you love our multiple cheap things stop being a sheep etc" is weird. Realize that people don't play nrs games for any combination of the legitmate reasons that exist instead of doing your best to blur the lines between the games they actually do like.

 

[Undergroundepict]

ya but i cant even remember when marvel came out and mkx isnt even a year old. so being neck and neck like that, it's kind of a big deal that it outlives 2 nrs titles and tieing the 3rd. Injustice wouldn't have made it a 3rd year yet Marvel with infinites and touch of death combos (you guys loveto keep telling me that) goes on for a possible 6th year.

why are we even having any agrument right now. nrs games are generally considered low-tier in the fgc for various reasons - it's not a hard observation to make nor should you take it as personal indictment on your skill. idk how many times i need to repeat "it's ok to like and play nrs games" so you can stop trying to frame me as an anti-nrsfanboy, which btw, i'm sure a lot of you are guilty of on the other side as nrs games are your main games. instead of getting defensive and trying to cushion the fall with your vague "it's all the same, man" and throwing out your skecthy, half-truths examples when it's clearly, clearly not the same according to the majority of fgc and just deal with it.

Smash Bros Melee was considered low tier by the fgc for damn near a decade before people woke the fuck up and realized how legit it was.

Honestly man, most of the people who consider NRS games low tier are pretentious Street Fighter players who assume that because you don't need to legit destroy all of the cartilage in your finger joints in a matter of seconds trying to get inputs out on pad, that the game is therefore simple and low tier.

I am not saying all Street Fighter players are pretentious, but there sure as fuck exists a large contingent elitists in the community who believe that they are unique little snowflakes because they can hit tight frame links.

Also, NRS games don't last long competitively because NRS keeps releasing new games every two years. I can't speak for Injustice or MK9, but MKX is very deep in terms of high level meta. The game could go on for years with just a few relatively minor tweaks, although NRS will probably release a newer game long before MKX is exhausted.

Lastly, your assertion that we are attempting to defend the game because we see criticism of it as "an indictment of our skill" is flat out wrong. We are defending the game against cries of "simplicity" or "scrubbery" because such statements are objectively incorrect.

 

[Slips]

You still don't get it. While some buy certain brands for status or because it's the popular thing, it won't change people's taste fundamentally. They like what they like and no ad can change your tastebuds. Just look at the results of this "Pepsi Paradox." Coke doesn't have double the market over them because poor little guy Pepsi can't afford the same ads, the same status, whatever. The answer is simply, betweeen the two, Coke owns the better product overall and a flimsy marketing gimmick pulled by Pepsi couldn't convince people into something they liked less. There's no paradox, it's called how the real world works.

Why nrs games have they're reputation spring from various reasons which have been stated so many times. On the subject of gameplay, well, recruiting people with " hey, you know, sfiv/other game had this unqiue cheap thing here once or twice so why don't you love our multiple cheap things stop being a sheep etc" is weird. Realize that people don't play nrs games for any combination of the legitmate reasons that exist instead of doing your best to blur the lines between the games they actually do like.

You aren't getting it either. Maybe the majority of people fundamentally like SF better, which is fine, hell even I like SF at it's core, but that doesn't mean anything that is not SF isn't good.

Just because Coke tastes better than Pepsi to the majority doesn't mean Pepsi sucks.

Just because most people prefer McDonald's doesn't mean Wendy's sucks.

If you like Coke and McDonald's then go play SF. If you like Pepsi, Wendy's Burger King, Mountain Dew, or whatever else. Be our guest and play MKX, Guilty Gear, Tekken ect.

Like I said before and will keep saying; NRS has a bad reputation it doesn't deserve.

 

[rev0lver]

Oh ya, I forgot how Pepsi is just this undergound thing and Coke is mainstream. That's it.

New Coke, the product put out specifically to combat Pepsi in taste tests was a sales failure despite the same ad campaigns. I'd like to see you explain that? Taste tests don't tell the full story and saying Pepsi is overall a better drink because it was preferred in small sips doesn't prove a thing. People choose what provides immediate pleasure and don't think about the subtlelty of the drink.

The reason New Coke failed had everything to do with marketing and how well ingrained the product is into American culture. It's actually a pretty interesting story and lesson in business, which speaks pretty well to what I'm talking about. The transition of SFIV to SFV and the attitudes we're seeing about it actually kinda represents it, except SFV being the new thing will be more forced.

That's beside the original point though. I don't know where the underground thing came from, but I never said anything like that. The point is that SF/capcom games in general, being the thing that basically created the FGC as we know it and had virtually no real competition for many years, which allowed it to consistently dominate the competitive FGC, will not fall off anytime soon no matter what happens. It can, but it probably won't, and would take a long period of change. It doesn't matter what's better or worse. It's how it works in almost every area of business you can find. Coke and Pepsi is just one example.

If you still disagree please get ready with a kleenex and some febreeze

 

[rev0lver]

ya but i cant even remember when marvel came out and mkx isnt even a year old. so being neck and neck like that, it's kind of a big deal that it outlives 2 nrs titles and tieing the 3rd. Injustice wouldn't have made it a 3rd year yet Marvel with infinites and touch of death combos (you guys loveto keep telling me that) goes on for a possible 6th year.

Marvel outlives EVERYTHING but sf. Marvel 2 survived for a decade being a game insanely dominated by top tiers and bullshit. Do you know how many great fighting games came out during the time Marvel 2 was alive? And none of them matched Marvel/SF. Guilty Gear is very respected in the FGC, yet it's always been outdone by marvel games at majors.

KoF is one of the most respected fighting game series there is. Do you know how many entrants KoFXIII had at evo last year? 0. Because it didn't make it. Not because it isn't a great fighting game, or that people shit on it, but because it's just not a popular enough series.

 

[B. Shazzy]

You aren't getting it either. Maybe the majority of people fundamentally like SF better, which is fine, hell even I like SF at it's core, but that doesn't mean anything that is not SF isn't good.

Just because Coke tastes better than Pepsi to the majority doesn't mean Pepsi sucks.

Just because most people prefer McDonald's doesn't mean Wendy's sucks.

If you like Coke and McDonald's then go play SF. If you like Pepsi, Wendy's Burger King, Mountain Dew, or whatever else. Be our guest and play MKX, Guilty Gear, Tekken ect.

Like I said before and will keep saying; NRS has a bad reputation it doesn't deserve.

What are you talking about, I've had it from the start. I've been saying that more or less while you just filled in the blanks about my agenda with your angsty nrs scorpion player attitude.

Some people like to play nrs games in the fgc. Most people in the fgc don't. Therefore nrs games are can be said to be low-tier in the fgc. What's wrong with admitting that?

Does it sound better if I replaced it with two examples, the first something you liked and the second you didn't like? Because the fact is if something isn't considered best by a group with a limited choice of options it falls to 2nd, then 3rd, 4th etc. nrs games generally aren't 2nd, 3rd or even 4th unless a new one has released recently. Something is at the bottom, not this "every game is a winner in it's on way" little league pep talk you want. Bottom tier is just one way to phrase "not popular" which is true - and then I offered some reasons explaining and everyone flipped.

Simply put, what if someone told you they love RC cola and that it was the same as Coke because it has sugar and you can drink it. We, and most people probably, agree that guy's wrong, right? But our opinion doesn't change how much he loves RC Cola and that's okay. Now switch that guy with you (Huge edit: Not "those who play nrs games" because not everyone who like and plays nrs games share's Slip's opinion, my bad) and those who play nrs games, switch RC Cola with MKX and Coke to SF, and switch most people with the majority of the fgc. There.

Most people want Coke but enjoy your RC cola, Slips.

 

[Slips]

What are you talking about, I've had it from the start. I've been saying that more or less while you just filled in the blanks about my agenda with your angsty nrs scorpion player attitude.

Some people like to play nrs games in the fgc. Most people don't in the fgc don't. Therefore nrs games are can be said to be low-tier in the fgc. What's wrong with admitting that?

Does it sound better if I replaced it with two examples, the first something you liked and the second you didn't like? Because the fact is if something isn't considered best by a group with a limited choice of options it falls to 2nd, then 3rd, 4th etc. nrs games generally aren't 2nd, 3rd or even 4th unless a new one has released recently. Something is at the bottom, not this "every game is a winner in it's on way" little league pep talk you want. Bottom tier is just one way to phrase "not popular" which is true - and then I offered some reasons explaining and everyone flipped.

Simply put, what if someone told you they love RC cola and that it was the same as Coke because it has sugar and you can drink it. We, and most people probably, agree that guy's wrong, right? But our opinion doesn't change how much he loves RC Cola and that's okay. Now switch that guy with you and those who play nrs games, switch RC Cola with MKX and Coke to SF, and switch most people with the majority of the fgc. There.

Enjoy your RC cola, Slips.

I asked if you had any compromise to your argument or if you are here to purely bash NRS games. Thanks for letting us all know why you're here.

 

[Zoidberg747]

What are you talking about, I've had it from the start. I've been saying that more or less while you just filled in the blanks about my agenda with your angsty nrs scorpion player attitude.

Some people like to play nrs games in the fgc. Most people in the fgc don't. Therefore nrs games are can be said to be low-tier in the fgc. What's wrong with admitting that?

Does it sound better if I replaced it with two examples, the first something you liked and the second you didn't like? Because the fact is if something isn't considered best by a group with a limited choice of options it falls to 2nd, then 3rd, 4th etc. nrs games generally aren't 2nd, 3rd or even 4th unless a new one has released recently. Something is at the bottom, not this "every game is a winner in it's on way" little league pep talk you want. Bottom tier is just one way to phrase "not popular" which is true - and then I offered some reasons explaining and everyone flipped.

Simply put, what if someone told you they love RC cola and that it was the same as Coke because it has sugar and you can drink it. We, and most people probably, agree that guy's wrong, right? But our opinion doesn't change how much he loves RC Cola and that's okay. Now switch that guy with you and those who play nrs games, switch RC Cola with MKX and Coke to SF, and switch most people with the majority of the fgc. There.

Enjoy your RC cola, Slips.

If you are talking purely entrant numbers or playerbases then there is no way MKX is low tier in the FGC.

GuiltyGear, Blazblue, Divekick, DOA, Killer Instinct, UNIEL, KOF, Tekken, Soul Calibur, Skullgirls etc etc.

All of those games get considerably less entrants then MKX at tournaments when MKX and the other game is present. Other games like Smash and Marvel also get less entrants than MKX in some cases. Street fighter is the only game right now that consistenly gets more numbers than MKX at every regional/major tournament.

So your whole thing about MKX being "unpopular" and "low tier" falls flat on its face.

 

[WiseM0nkey]

man...

MK vs. SF? really?

 

[NoobHunter420]

Yes, NRS games are scrubby.
This is why I can't get into other other fighters.
That's also why NRS makes a shit ton of sales.
most people or "casuals" don't want put time into a game they're not enjoying.
NRS gets it and makes their games hella accessible, but that doesn't mean that it doesn't take a skill to compete at a tournament level.

 

[Peckapowa]

I don't really disagree with any of this. My main point is that when other games clearly have broken stuff people may complain but it doesn't tarnish the game's reputation nearly as much as it does NRS games. Our community throws a tantrum while the other fighting game communities shake their head's and snicker. For some reason NRS is held to a higher standard and I don't know why.



Yay more broad opinions with no substance. What makes you an authority on what is good design and what is not. You 'watch' sf and you just assume it's better. Great. You're pretty much a clear cut example of what the problem is.

I could write a novel, probably a few weeks into the game of what is flawed within the design of mkx, i really don't feel like it. I have played SF also but not at a top level, but enough to understand most of what is going on at a high level.

 

[Peckapowa]

@rev0lver
There being an existing brand and attitude which is influenced and permeates as a groupthink without full experience by most members of said groupthink does not necessarily invalidate its possible validity and/or truth even if those who think it may not have understanding. While it is certain that both nrs and capcom and pepsi /coke are largely influenced by collective ideologies those collective ideologies do not necessary invalidate certain claims.

Also, I personally do find coke to taste superior to pepsi, but at some point it's difficult to assess or pinpoint just how personality/emotional experience play a role in the reason for preferring that taste. Attitudes influence perceived pleasure/taste when it comes to these. Whose to say one's own frustration with attitude popular culture might cause them to have a preference for pepsi as the perceive it to be more of the "outcast" of soda. It's possible Pepsi is preffered by more tame or relaxed constitutions because coke has a bit more bite. Whose to say one might actually prefer the taste of sour/candy over chocolate because their attitude and constitution finds the zing/wakening effect of the hardy candy preferable to the more pure sweetness of chocolate.

 

[Soul Bound X]

Well, which NRS games would you consider yourself a master of?

Wouldn't call myself a "master" , because im not as egotistical as I was when i played but i definately was one of the really good mk9 players. I got pretty much as good as you can be with Cage. Not a player I couldn't take games off of so I understood the game pretty much as well as you could. So yeah, theres your answer

 

[rev0lver]

@rev0lver
There being an existing brand and attitude which is influenced and permeates as a groupthink without full experience by most members of said groupthink does not necessarily invalidate its possible validity and/or truth even if those who think it may not have understanding. While it is certain that both nrs and capcom and pepsi /coke are largely influenced by collective ideologies those collective ideologies do not necessary invalidate certain claims.

No, it doesn't invalidate the idea that the leading brand/game/whatever could objectively be the best, and competitors may just be inferior. I'm responding to the idea that X being on top means it must be the best based on quality alone, when it's not necessarily the case.

 

[B. Shazzy]

If you are talking purely entrant numbers or playerbases then there is no way MKX is low tier in the FGC.

GuiltyGear, Blazblue, Divekick, DOA, Killer Instinct, UNIEL, KOF, Tekken, Soul Calibur, Skullgirls etc etc.

All of those games get considerably less entrants then MKX at tournaments when MKX and the other game is present. Other games like Smash and Marvel also get less entrants than MKX in some cases. Street fighter is the only game right now that consistenly gets more numbers than MKX at every regional/major tournament.

So your whole thing about MKX being "unpopular" and "low tier" falls flat on its face.

"nrs games generally aren't 2nd, 3rd or even 4th unless a new one has released recently."

let's use evo to measure entrants since that everyone's big goal to win. at 2015 evo entrants for mkx what should be a fresh, hot fg:

Ultra Street Fighter 4 - 2,227
Smash 4 - 1,926
Super Smash Bros. Melee - 1,869
Mortal Kombat X - 1,162
Guilty Gear Xrd -SIGN- – 968
Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3 - 816
Tekken 7 - 458
Persona 4 Arena Ultimax - 437
Killer Instinct - 397

Stomped by about a thousand by each game ahead of it, while barely mainitining its 4th position. it's not really impressive, but it was a no doubt a great accomplishment for the community. it's all downhill from there. in your opinion, wouldn't a new, popular game pull more entrants than one that's a decade old and one that's just under? or at least how about not be ahead of 5 year old games by a few hundred? is the bar really set so low for nrs games?

I asked if you had any compromise to your argument or if you are here to purely bash NRS games. Thanks for letting us all know why you're here.

I can't be clearer and you still think I'm sheeping. If we can't agree that nrs games are not the cat's meow in the fgc for reasons other than just netcode and community then I think you're delusional. That's the only point I'm trying to make. What do you want me to compromise to, mid to low tier? Sure, it doesn't matter.

 

[Soul Bound X]

Tekken is the best compeitive fighting game ever made. It's just technically the best and most balanced. Buts its boring as shit to watch and the hype is non-existant. That's why we don't play tekken. Don't make an arguement about how your main game is so much better, unless you play tekken. And if you do play tekken and you do make that arguement thheeeeennnn your game is boring as shit and no one cares. To summarize it all up. Every fighting game is its own thing. Play whatever the hell you want.

 

[Slips]

"nrs games generally aren't 2nd, 3rd or even 4th unless a new one has released recently."

let's use evo to measure entrants since that everyone's big goal to win. at 2015 evo entrants for mkx what should be a fresh, hot fg:

Ultra Street Fighter 4 - 2,227
Smash 4 - 1,926
Super Smash Bros. Melee - 1,869
Mortal Kombat X - 1,162
Guilty Gear Xrd -SIGN- – 968
Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3 - 816
Tekken 7 - 458
Persona 4 Arena Ultimax - 437
Killer Instinct - 397

Stomped by about a thousand by each game ahead of it, while barely mainitining its 4th position. it's not really impressive, but it was a no doubt a great accomplishment for the community. it's all downhill from there. in your opinion, wouldn't a new, popular game pull more entrants than one that's a decade old and one that's just under? or at least how about not be ahead of 5 year old games by a few hundred? is the bar really set so low for nrs games?




I can't be clearer and you still think I'm sheeping. If we can't agree that nrs games are not the cat's meow in the fgc for reasons other than just netcode and community then I think you're delusional. That's the only point I'm trying to make. What do you want me to compromise to, mid to low tier? Sure, it doesn't matter.

As I said, no fighting game is gonna touch SF. It's the staple fighting game and I think everyone is content with that. MKX get's 4th and that's bad? Many people consider Smash to be it's own entity since it became huge outside of the FGC. So outside of Smash, MKX is 2nd to Street Figher (making it 'Pepsi') and that makes the game trash? How does that make sense? How are you not just being a pure hater with that information staring you in the face? Congrats on KI probably getting it's 3rd year at Evo. NRS games are going on their 5th. We've already been there. You act like MKX is dying and it's been pulling good numbers all year.

You haven't provided any facts to say why MKX is bad other than the FGC says it's bad. Everything you hate MKX for is prevalent in all fighting games which I've already pointed out yet you just want to ignore. Until you can actually provide real legitimate reasons as to why MKX is bad then it's pretty obvious you are being a 'sheep' since you can't even articulate your argument outside of, 'NRS games are bad because that's what everyone else says.'

All I hear is 'Bahahahaha'

 

[Undergroundepict]

Mortal Kombat/NRS players have to defend their game more than any other community, it seems. The game is good. Deal with it.

Yes, NRS games are scrubby.
This is why I can't get into other other fighters.
That's also why NRS makes a shit ton of sales.
most people or "casuals" don't want put time into a game they're not enjoying.
NRS gets it and makes their games hella accessible, but that doesn't mean that it doesn't take a skill to compete at a tournament level.

The thing is, though, that making a game more accessible does not have to be a marketing ploy aimed at attracting casuals. MKX's accessibility is not "scrubby," it is an objectively positive pro to Street Fighter's con. There is absolutely no reason to make basic inputting and execution more difficult than it needs to be.

In the case of a game like Blaz Blue, however, you have a high execution barrier because the game itself offers an abundance of tools that add to the overall depth of the game. Inputs and basic combos themselves do not generally have execution barriers, it is understanding all the different types of tech rolls and block types and neutral game stuff.

I simply do not see how anyone can consider MKX "scrubby" next to SFIV, simply because it is easier to perform special moves and link basic combos. Both games are relatively straightforward and not overly complicated in terms of their gameplay mechanics. Literally the only thing that makes SFIV seem more complicated is the pretentious decision to make special moves and combos needlessly difficult.

I am not arguing that any one game is better than the other. Both are awesome games, and even if I do not personally care for Street Fighter, I can still acknowledge that it is fucking quality. I am simply pointing out that simplicity, widely considered a flaw or used in a pejorative context, is actually a good thing for a game.

 

[Zoidberg747]

"nrs games generally aren't 2nd, 3rd or even 4th unless a new one has released recently."

let's use evo to measure entrants since that everyone's big goal to win. at 2015 evo entrants for mkx what should be a fresh, hot fg:

Ultra Street Fighter 4 - 2,227
Smash 4 - 1,926
Super Smash Bros. Melee - 1,869
Mortal Kombat X - 1,162
Guilty Gear Xrd -SIGN- – 968
Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3 - 816
Tekken 7 - 458
Persona 4 Arena Ultimax - 437
Killer Instinct - 397

Stomped by about a thousand by each game ahead of it, while barely mainitining its 4th position. it's not really impressive, but it was a no doubt a great accomplishment for the community. it's all downhill from there. in your opinion, wouldn't a new, popular game pull more entrants than one that's a decade old and one that's just under? or at least how about not be ahead of 5 year old games by a few hundred? is the bar really set so low for nrs games?

First off, you make the assumption that EVO is the only way to show entrants. That is asinine because half of those people who enter at EVO either barely play the games or play casually, that goes for any game including MKX. EVO is one of the worst tournaments to judge a game's entrants by for that very reason. Beside that, you are just proving my argument for me.

As I said before, Street Fighter and Smash are the two biggest FG franchises in the FGC when looking at numbers, especially at EVO. So MKX comes behind those two. Anyone who follows the Smash community knows that this was a huge year for revitalizing the scene. You're comparing a game that had no patches and still maintained a solid playerbase for a decade with one that is frequently patched by a company that puts out new games every other year. NRS community will never compare to the longevity of Smash because they have patches and new games to move on to.

But other than that this matches most of the data I found. Its funny because you were rambling on about how Marvel pulls in more than MKX yet choose to use an example where Marvel had a few hundred less than MKX. But you seem to be ignoring that. And while MKX is only ahead of Marvel by a few hundred, its ahead of Killer Instinct by nearly a thousand. Other than MKX, KI was the youngest game there and was dead last. If you had any objectiveness at all, you would realize that looking at entrants by comparing "this game that is this old with that game that is that old" is just being arbitrary and in no way telling the whole story.

And you go on to say its downhill from there but thats not even close to being true. MKX held its own at every major after EVO, often surpassing Marvel and sometimes competing with Smash. You can try to talk about MKX being unsuccessful in the tournament scene and "unpopular" until you are blue in the face, but as things stand now you are not backed up by the facts at all.

 

[Undergroundepict]

"nrs games generally aren't 2nd, 3rd or even 4th unless a new one has released recently."

let's use evo to measure entrants since that everyone's big goal to win. at 2015 evo entrants for mkx what should be a fresh, hot fg:

Ultra Street Fighter 4 - 2,227
Smash 4 - 1,926
Super Smash Bros. Melee - 1,869
Mortal Kombat X - 1,162
Guilty Gear Xrd -SIGN- – 968
Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3 - 816
Tekken 7 - 458
Persona 4 Arena Ultimax - 437
Killer Instinct - 397

Stomped by about a thousand by each game ahead of it, while barely mainitining its 4th position. it's not really impressive, but it was a no doubt a great accomplishment for the community. it's all downhill from there. in your opinion, wouldn't a new, popular game pull more entrants than one that's a decade old and one that's just under? or at least how about not be ahead of 5 year old games by a few hundred? is the bar really set so low for nrs games?




I can't be clearer and you still think I'm sheeping. If we can't agree that nrs games are not the cat's meow in the fgc for reasons other than just netcode and community then I think you're delusional. That's the only point I'm trying to make. What do you want me to compromise to, mid to low tier? Sure, it doesn't matter.

MK has only been designed for the competitive community with the advent of MK9, with large portion of the MK9 community moving on to Injustice and assimilating into the NRS community.

In many ways, NRS are the new kids on the block, and tournament attendance has been steadily (and sometimes quite rapidly) increasing with each successive NRS release.

The attendance numbers you are trying to shit on were considered alarmingly high, and only served to demonstrate NRS's legitimacy by overtaking staples of the FGC such as MvC3 in terms of attendance.

While IP itself is not new, its place in the upper echelon of the FGC is.