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Question - Leatherface Anyone else eating their words?

GAV

Resolution through knowledge and resolve.


lmao that's one of the things that confuses me the most.

There is no slot wasting with this DLC. With the main roster slots every single one of those characters is there because they play a role in the story, those slots actually really matter to the entire series, with DLC they have absolutely zero fucking effect on the canon of the games. If any of these characters were in the main roster instead of any of the returning characters there'd be a sound complaint because you wouldn't get to find out what those characters were up to and they wouldn't have any part in this era of MK history. Shang Tsung being in the initial release means something because it means he'll do something big in the story. Him being DLC means he'll get updated visually and have some new attacks. He'd be all gameplay and a little flair. That's good enough for me, but seeing the reaction to LF, it's not good enough for these diehards, but I'm sure if this was how things turned out they'd be singing a different tune.

I wanted Sheeva in MKX, not really because I wanted to play her, but more so because I wanted to see more of her story. Sure playing her would be fun but there are 25+ fucking characters I can play for fun, so her getting in as DLC instead of the main roster doesn't really mean anything.

Of course so many people think with their hearts instead of logically first.

Why do you want Rain/Fujin/Whoeverthehell? Because you like the character right? Well you don't get any updates to the character with DLC, you just get gameplay. Do you want them back for the gameplay you liked on previous games? Well that's pointless too because NRS changes how their characters play every damn game.
Its about the matchups though. When I was matched up against Scorpion in Injustice, it broke the fiction for me. Eventually, I just wasn't motivated to play it anymore. The fiction I knew for Injustice wasn't from the comics. It was from watching superheroes on TV as a kid.

The guys that are complaining are into the MK fiction, so cross-overs break it for them much like it did for me with Injustice.

I'm not pushing you to agree with either side, just to understand the conflicting perspectives better.
 

GAV

Resolution through knowledge and resolve.
Somehow I think we are speaking a different language. I'm not arguing, and I don't know how you drew the conclusions you did. You're making an awful lot of assumptions.

Question: what do you think my viewpoint is?

Second question: What are you assuming my age to be, that you are confident in claiming a generation gap?

The point I'm making is very simple. Scorpion fits in Injustice fine(and I say that as someone who thinks the character is terrible). Leatherface doesn't fit in MKX in any way. They have done a good job forcing him in, but it's far from organic.
You're probably in your late 20's or early 30's.

I think your viewpoint is one that Leatherface detracts from your overall MKX experience because he's using a slot you think could be better used and it will irk you every time you're matched up with him, since he breaks with the game's fiction.

Also, although I'm quoting your posts - I've read the entire thread - so I'm responding to the overall tone of the thread as much as just to your post itself.

I also knew you would read it and actually further the discussion.
 
Why do you want Rain/Fujin/Whoeverthehell? Because you like the character right? Well you don't get any updates to the character with DLC, you just get gameplay. Do you want them back for the gameplay you liked on previous games? Well that's pointless too because NRS changes how their characters play every damn game.
What about wanting to play as the character you like in the new style the game/character would adopt? I sure as hell would've liked to play as, say, Shang Tsung. But not because I liked how he was in MK2. I want an updated Shang that fits MKX. Or hell here's another example. I like Sektor, probably gonna main hm when Triborg comes out. It would've been mad boring if it were MK9 Sektor though. Like 100% MK9 too, same model/strings/frame data/etc. But he isn't, he has new strings and his specials are different (ex straight missile is a combo starter, ex flame thrower is new, the charge is new, he shoots multiple rockets for up rockets). That's cool, seeing familiar moves updated and made different for the new game. I'm sure Rain fans would've liked to see that exact thing with him. Also, not everyone wants the shitty 3D characters in, like Dairou or Taven. I personally wanted characters I could see plausible in this game, like Shang/Noob/Rain/the Rest of the story characters. Not because of the lore, but because I like playing as that character and love seeing how they change through each iteration of the series. I'm sure as fuck not excited to see how well this less plausible character fits into MKX, especially considering that I don't care to see the movies affiliated with him or his style of gameplay he brings to the game.
 

Pterodactyl

Plus on block.
Its about the matchups though. When I was matched up against Scorpion in Injustice, it broke the fiction for me. Eventually, I just wasn't motivated to play it anymore. The fiction I knew for Injustice wasn't from the comics. It was from watching superheroes on TV as a kid.

The guys that are complaining are into the MK fiction, so cross-overs break it for them much like it did for me with Injustice.

I'm not pushing you to agree with either side, just to understand the conflicting perspectives better.
I don't really see the break in fiction there.

A break in fiction is a character existing in a world in which that type of character doesn't fit or can't exist.

Demonic ninja have existed in the worlds of DC and Marvel and other comic creators for decades, Scorpion isn't some ridiculous and unbelievable fit into the world's lore.


Just like it isn't hard to believe there are crazy and supernatural killers in a world shown to have crazy and supernatural killers.


Now if you did something like put a Smurf into MKX or Pac-Man into Injustice, those things don't logically fit into those worlds.


With the guests we've had so far it's less like a break in fiction and more like people are picking and choosing where they choose to draw the line in the sand for suspension of disbelief.

Honestly if Cyrax and Sektor weren't a part of MK and were put in as guests you'd probably have problems with your suspension of disbelief. But because they're in the story that someone makes their ridiculousness okay. Same thing would happen if NRS just made up their own slasher character for the canon. They'd seem fitting to you because of the canon.

The thing. Is though, none of the fights outside of story mode are canon, they're all dream matches, so a non-story character being in an already nonsensical battle really has no ties on the fiction. Especially not if they already fit the world.
 
lmao that's one of the things that confuses me the most.

There is no slot wasting with this DLC. With the main roster slots every single one of those characters is there because they play a role in the story, those slots actually really matter to the entire series, with DLC they have absolutely zero fucking effect on the canon of the games. If any of these characters were in the main roster instead of any of the returning characters there'd be a sound complaint because you wouldn't get to find out what those characters were up to and they wouldn't have any part in this era of MK history. Shang Tsung being in the initial release means something because it means he'll do something big in the story. Him being DLC means he'll get updated visually and have some new attacks. He'd be all gameplay and a little flair. That's good enough for me, but seeing the reaction to LF, it's not good enough for these diehards, but I'm sure if this was how things turned out they'd be singing a different tune.

I wanted Sheeva in MKX, not really because I wanted to play her, but more so because I wanted to see more of her story. Sure playing her would be fun but there are 25+ fucking characters I can play for fun, so her getting in as DLC instead of the main roster doesn't really mean anything.

Of course so many people think with their hearts instead of logically first.

Why do you want Rain/Fujin/Whoeverthehell? Because you like the character right? Well you don't get any updates to the character with DLC, you just get gameplay. Do you want them back for the gameplay you liked on previous games? Well that's pointless too because NRS changes how their characters play every damn game.
I want Fujin because when MK9 came out, every character was pretty much re-imagined gameplay wise. Every character had unique strings, specials, fatals, and had their own voice. That's what I've wanted for Fujin from the beginning, and that's why I was campaigning so hard for him in MKX. I want to see the direction they go in with his gameplay, and the potential for Wind as a power is limitless.

What they gave to me is a cocktease by putting him in the story and showing us all the cool shit that he can do, without giving us a playable version of him. That's all they've ever given this character, a cameo in the story or endings, while denying any chance for him to shine. I loved his appearance in story and that's pretty much everything I've always wanted, but given a spot on the roster as well. This isn't a massively disliked or hated character like Hsu Hao or Darrius, massive amounts of fans love him and want him to be more than what he is, and that's why it sucks so much.
 

GAV

Resolution through knowledge and resolve.
I don't really see the break in fiction there.

A break in fiction is a character existing in a world in which that type of character doesn't fit or can't exist.

Demonic ninja have existed in the worlds of DC and Marvel and other comic creators for decades, Scorpion isn't some ridiculous and unbelievable fit into the world's lore.


Just like it isn't hard to believe there are crazy and supernatural killers in a world shown to have crazy and supernatural killers.


Now if you did something like put a Smurf into MKX or Pac-Man into Injustice, those things don't logically fit into those worlds.


With the guests we've had so far it's less like a break in fiction and more like people are picking and choosing where they choose to draw the line in the sand for suspension of disbelief.

Honestly if Cyrax and Sektor weren't a part of MK and were put in as guests you'd probably have problems with your suspension of disbelief. But because they're in the story that someone makes their ridiculousness okay. Same thing would happen if NRS just made up their own slasher character for the canon. They'd seem fitting to you because of the canon.

The thing. Is though, none of the fights outside of story mode are canon, they're all dream matches, so a non-story character being in an already nonsensical battle really has no ties on the fiction. Especially not if they already fit the world.
My point is that my idea of what characters Injustice could include is much smaller than what characters MKX could include.

Injustice - Superheroes and Supervillains

MKX - MK characters along with Horror and Pop Culture icons

I was in high school when Mortal Kombat came out. There was no fiction. The characters were ninjas and pop culture look-alikes and the game was a one-on-one fighter with a horror theme.

When Injustice came out, I already had an idea of what it should be. My idea came from watching Saturday morning cartoons as a kid. Scorpion was an MK guy. To me, he not only didn't fit - but he broke the universe and the game lost its allure because of it.

Now, I'm excited about Leatherface - but I can certainly see why others aren't. To them, he ranges from distasteful to breaking the universe.

When they got into MK, they did so through the fiction - so any break from that fiction can potentially break the universe for them.
 

STORMS

Co-founder
Founder
Premium Supporter
When Leatherface was first announced, I was so against the character being in a Mortal Kombat game. Not really because he's a movie character, because I like Alien and Predator, but because he didn't seem like a character that could compete in the universe. Not to mention, I hated all of the movies besides the very first one.

But i'm not gonna lie, when I saw the character's moves, the diversity in the variations, and oh my, Butcher and the Butcher specific brutality, I was hype. They really put a lot of thought and work into what a lot of people and myself included, thought was just a money grab.

Honestly, Alien is still who i'm most interested in. Although, if it doesn't have what i'm looking for, i'm 100% comfortable in falling back on Butcher. This isn't a big deal obviously, it's just a video game, but I've never been so against something in my life, just to be 100% for it after less than an hour's worth of information.

Fellow TYMers, BUTCHER BOYZ. Leatherface supporters, i'm sorry. March first can't come sooner.
You should see the mood banners @Alien Substance is working on. The Butcher mood banner may even feature ground m.... ;)
 

Blade4693

VIVIVI
Isn't tekken knowing for having some silly characters though, like the animals and stuff?

All the other guests for MK have been made to fit into the world quiet well, and it is plausible they could meet and interact with the main characters.

How in the world do you justify a non supernatural serial killer chases after women dealing with any of the cast? How would he even get to outworld lol....I mean, whatever, it's a game, but he really, really doesn't fit.
Well he doesn't chase women exclusively, the first person he ever kills on camera is a male actually.

As for winning against the cast, he wouldn't (Though MKX's story makes it looks like the MK's villains characters could lose to anybody as long as they are on the good side lol) but seeing as how Earthrealm is just like Earth, its not all that crazy. A lot of MKX's story takes place in Earthrealm too. As for how he would get into Outworld, he probably never would, but his (and all guests) inclusions are non canon "what ifs" anyway so like you said, it really doesn't matter.
 

SM StarGazer

The voice of reason in a Sea of Salt
Honestly...Imma throw chainsaws, and smash faces, wish it was a suit with more evolutionary power then your average Koromon, but I'd take the 'Killer' Tire from Rubber whom loved a 'Pretty Lady' ,and 'Butchered' a ton of people by blowing up their freakin heads.

Just Saiyan.
 

Rathalos

Play Monster Hunter!
Leatherface was kind out of left field, wasn't expecting them to do 2 guest characters for season 2.
He definitely fits MK though. He looks like a MK character and he kills the fuck out of people.
"Power differences" is a dumb argument, and not even NRS gives a shit about it. In MK9 a mall cop beat up Reptile, Mileena, Kinatro, and fucking Ermac back to back like it was nothing, with a pistol and a baton.

As for stealing spots, eh. Everyone important was in MK9 already, they can wait a game out.
Everyone else is a goober who probably shouldn't come back.

Only character that got screwed was Fujin, and he got really screwed. His only hope is DLC for MK11, no way is he important enough to make it into the game proper, and he missed his window of story relevance.
 

snort

Noob
Nope. Leatherface was a cash-grab, Fujin, Sindel, Noob etc... Would've been much better choices.
Sindel? common son. Bringing new characters to the game adds more diversity and hype. Why keep recycling the same characters over and over again?
 

Sugarwatermixlegit

Bruce Campbell 4 MK!!!
Why the hell are people acting like he's now a canon character? He's just a bonus character for people to play he doesn't affect the story. BONUS CHARACTER-As in every fucking DLC character. They are just there if you want them. Leather isn't a MK character now and isn't involved in the story, its a "what if" kind of thing. Just like Triborg. He isn't a canon character either. He's just a bonus on top of the 25+ we have.
 

GreatKungLao

LiuTana
If I said I'm not gon
Bringing new characters to the game adds more diversity and hype.
Then those so called new characters should be MORTAL KOMBAT characters, like Skarlet was an entirely new addition to MK franchise and is based on rumor like Ermac was who developed into a great character both story and gameplay wise. Or they could've add those MK characters, who got the most rare appearance in franchise like Fujin, Kai, Shujinko, Li Mei, Frost, Nitara, Blaze, Ashrah, Havik, Hotaru and such. But no, they wasted all of their potential on making f*cking guest characters. I would be much mope hyped about to see an MK character been revisited with current resources and technology that NRS has.

Thanks for Bo' Rai Cho, Tremor, Triborg and Tanya at the very lease, NRS, but those other 4 slots should have been MK characters as well.

Why the hell are people acting like he's now a canon character? He's just a bonus character for people to play he doesn't affect the story. BONUS CHARACTER-As in every fucking DLC character. They are just there if you want them. Leather isn't a MK character now and isn't involved in the story, its a "what if" kind of thing.
Why wasting time, resources and creativity on "what ifs" when they had Fujin, Li Mei, Rain, Kabal, Sindel, Human Smoke, Baraka, Stryker and Nightwolf appearing in Story Mode? Revisiting those characters with current technology, resources and creativity that NRS got right now would have been much more exciting. They revisited Tanya and Tremor and people really loved the characters and how their new elements added to their already existed abilities worked out.

Just like Triborg. He isn't a canon character either. He's just a bonus on top of the 25+ we have.
You might be wrong here, Triborg can become as canon as Ermac and Skarlet did even though both happened from rumors.

By the way, Goro is nowhere in Story Mode, yet he got his place among the roster. So MK characters not being involved in the story doesn't negate possibility of being part of the playable roster.

From the very beginning I'm playing Mortal Kombat for Mortal Kombat and when I bought MKX I was ready to support DLC thinking that it will be filled with even more Mortal Kombat, not just on 50% as it appeared to be. God how wrong was I. If it was one-two guests and SIX Mortal Kombat characters, that would easy my pain a little bit. Jason and Leatherface are not needed anyway, they are not martial art fighters in the first place, while Predator is at least a warrior hunter and Alien happens from Baraka who is the strongest tarkatan warrior, though I would much rather see Baraka himself.

Anyway, fuck guest characters. They are a waste for a fighting that does not belong to them.
 

Zatoichi

Fabulous Goofball
I'm still Pissed about Scorpion in Injustice, but Leatherface in this does not bother me at all. He actually looks fun to play, all three variations.
 

KeyserSoze

Fabled Villain
Leatherface was kind out of left field, wasn't expecting them to do 2 guest characters for season 2.
He definitely fits MK though. He looks like a MK character and he kills the fuck out of people.
"Power differences" is a dumb argument, and not even NRS gives a shit about it. In MK9 a mall cop beat up Reptile, Mileena, Kinatro, and fucking Ermac back to back like it was nothing, with a pistol and a baton.

As for stealing spots, eh. Everyone important was in MK9 already, they can wait a game out.
Everyone else is a goober who probably shouldn't come back.

Only character that got screwed was Fujin, and he got really screwed. His only hope is DLC for MK11, no way is he important enough to make it into the game proper, and he missed his window of story relevance.
I wish I could somehow give this post more likes. You nailed it.
 

GreatKungLao

LiuTana
He definitely fits MK though.
No. He is not a martial artist of any sort. Mortal Kombat cast consists of actual kombatants, kung-fu masters, ninjas, edenian assassins, street fighters (like Kano or Kobra), brawlers, shokan warriors, etc. Both Jason and Leatherface has nothing to do with any of this and so did not Freddy. All three guests sucks.

As for stealing spots, eh. Everyone important was in MK9 already, they can wait a game out.
Everyone else is a goober who probably shouldn't come back.
And who are you to decide who is important and who is not? It is Mortal Kombat and should consist of MK characters as much as possible so that fans wouldn't be leftout because of guests, but because of reasonably more popular MK characters which hella lot more tolerable.

Besides, there is popularity importance, story importance and gameplay importance. Shujinko for example as his Konquest showed had a lot of importance throughout all MK games acting behind the scenes manipulated for a greater good (as he thought) by Onaga. Blaze is elemental created by Argus and Delia that is suppose to bring the balance to overpowered number of fighters that exist in the MK universe and posses and God's power who will be granted to anyone that defeats him. Delia did not wanted for all characters to die, while Argus thought that goal must be reached by any means and they created a contest between their sons Taven and Daegon, which brings their importance to the overall MK lore. And we can go like that for eternity.

To make things short: any MK character is more important for a MORTAL KOMBAT game than any guest character.
 

Rude

You will serve me in The Netherrealm
Sigh. All right.

I think y'all just need to get the fuck over it. Seriously.

The biggest case I see made in favor of Fujin revolves solely around potential. What he "could" be in MKX's engine, what he "might" be like with a re-design.

Key word: Re-design. What this means is that Fujin fans don't actually like the character as he is, they're fans of what they imagine he could be. The reality Is that who Fujin actually is is more akin to a Raiden re-skin than a clearly defined character.

Go read his MK4 bio. Watch the ending. Everything that Fujin is is defined by or identical to Raiden. So get over it. Even if he was in the game as DLC, he wouldn't have a role in the story. Just like Tanya, Tremor, and Bo.

So get over it. Leatherface is optional, so don't buy him if you don't like him. See how easy it is?

If you're arguing plausibility and reality in a game with four-armed half-dragons and lizard men, you're missing the point.

Let it go.
 

Espio

Kokomo
Tanya has a role im story mode as does Fujin and Bo Rai Cho. Bo + Tanya are DLC with story imvolvement so that example makes no sense regardless. Not to mentiom Kenshi's DLC status in MK9 lead to him beimg bridged into the story and playable out the gate in X.
 

GAV

Resolution through knowledge and resolve.
Why?

I mean, it doesn't matter at all. Point is, it's foolish to make assumptions about age, and then to blame age as an excuse for seeing things differently.

There is no generation gap. I've been aware of the MK franchise since it's inception. I wasn't that interested in it, but I played it and was familiar with it at the time it was current.

Also, the point you're trying to make, that it was always referential to pop culture, is something I would disagree with.



No, not at all. I don't even really like MKX, I got into NRS games because of Injustice.

The fiction is inconsistent and more importantly, MK doesn't take itself seriously, so why should I?

It's not a point I feel strongly about, but yes, I do feel that leatherface would be served by a different character. Ash makes about a million times more sex.

The reason I feel that way, is because all the other characters including DLC deal with supernatural stuff, or other dimensions, or are in situations where they could plausibly end up facing the MKX characters.

That isn't true for Leatherface. He is a lot closer to buffalo bill than he is to ash.

Honestly, would you be just as happy if they put buffalo bill in the game?



I'm serious. They make exactly as much sense as each other.
  • Have a zoning variation where he throws low dogs and overhead baskets.
  • Have a trap/setup variation where he can spill lotion and the other play slips on it.
  • Have a grappler variation where he tries to get you down so he can moisturize your skin
It's just a step to far to suspend disbelief that a guy like this can face characters in this universe, far more than it does to suspend disbelief that a soldiers daughter can beat an elder god in h2h combat. That's what it comes down to for me. I still don't care that much, and I'll play him if he is fun.



I mean, I didn't articulate it very well..but my point is there is nothing special about him. He's just crazy. That isn't enough to elevate him to facing the rest of the cast.

I mean, the solders in the game are extremely proficient martial artists with weapons at their disposal, and the rest of the cast has powers of some sort.

Throwing chainsaws doesn't compete with ANY of that, and I think it's silly to elevate him to the same status of the task, when there are numerous characters that would already be a better fit. Not only that...but it makes sense for Freddy, Predator and Alien to find their ways to outworld. It would have made sense for Ash to end up mixing with the mkx characters also. How the hell does a guy who whose story would have ended in death or jail find his way to outworld and wrapped up in the battle for earthrealm?
Understood, but crazy people are very dangerous. I've trained either boxing or kung fu for almost my entire life, yet I would never underestimate a crazy person.

Now, I like Leatherface - but I would have liked Ash too. I would definitely play Ash, if even just for his voice and remarks.

I have to agree, its a bit of a stretch to think Leatherface would make it to Outworld. I mean, Jason is an unkillable force of nature that could be used as a pawn by either sorcerer. Predator and Alien are space travelers. Leatherface, I think, is a true movie cameo.

By being disinterested early on, you weren't there from the beginning. Here's how it was in the beginning...

Raiden was the Thunder God. He was an enigma in the beginning.
Scorpion and Sub Zero were ninjas.
Johnny Cage was JCVD.
Liu Kang was Bruce Lee.
Kano was a cross between Terminator and Crocodile Dundee.
Sonya was the hot military girl from Top Gun.

Reptile was the hidden ninja.
Shang Tsung was the evil sorcerer in Big Trouble in Little China.
Goro was a cross between KIng Kong and Godzilla.

That's why I say the lore was originally pop culture. It was a game of cameos. The horror theme came from the fatalities.
 
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