Match Footage - Raiden MIT using Raiden in YOMI finals

Braindead said:

@Chaosphere you're trying to pull off a Tom Brady here.

You should just learn from Tom's experience and know that no matter how hard you try to convince people he isn't broken, Raiden will eventually get nerfed.

It's coming. Embrace it.

GGs.

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Lol if that happens then it happens. Doesn't mean I won't continue to make great arguments about it. #self props

I'm fine with making F12 -5 by the way.

Braindead said:

@Chaosphere you're trying to pull off a Tom Brady here.

You should just learn from Tom's experience and know that no matter how hard you try to convince people he isn't broken, Raiden will eventually get nerfed.

It's coming. Embrace it.

GGs.

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It is inevitable isn't it?

Can we talk about Raiden's weaknesses ? I think his footsie game is kind of wack. And his low pokes still whatever.

nugava said:

Can we talk about Raiden's weaknesses ? I think his footsie game is kind of wack. And his low pokes still whatever.

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I have also said his low pokes are terrible and if f1,2 gets nerfed they should be less negative to compensate. But my thread got closed within 10 min

eh a lot of pointless arguing in this thread

nerf f12 to be more minus to make certain matchups less ridiculous

nerf b2 to make his mixup less ridiculous (if u take away his special cancelability then he risks a billion damage when he does overhead but it's still unseeable)

it is what it is

Chaosphere said:

Yeah. His f12b2 string is the WHOLE reason to play thunder god raiden. Let's see what your argument is.

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no
it's the only variation w/ run cancel
b32 string is also really good
if he didn't have f12 he'd use a diff lightning string (yes, it'd be way worse, but still)

People are crying for nerfs for this character yet they haven't even looked into how their character can beat f1,2 spam... If they are constantly spamming it you can simply d1-4 (depending on the character)

There are options to this for all of the cast that people don't know yet.

Low Blow said:

People are crying for nerfs for this character yet they haven't even looked into how their character can beat f1,2 spam... If they are constantly spamming it you can simply d1-4 (depending on the character)

There are options to this for all of the cast that people don't know yet.

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Literally every character has at least an 8 frame normal, I checked. Takeda and kenshi even have an 8 frame uppercut. If a raiden got smacked with a 14% uppercut every time they spammed that string I bet they'd change up their strategy

wouldn't a more fair "nerf" to raiden be just give people 6-7 frame pokes I mean f12 is already negitive and I can't think of anyone that would suddenly be broken with a 6f poke. Whatever though I just don't think Raiden has the BS that the other top tier characters have minus the option selects those need to go and the meter building that should be toned down (not taking away anything from dizzy he played amazing but without those option selects he wouldn't have won combo breaker)

Low Blow said:

People are crying for nerfs for this character yet they haven't even looked into how their character can beat f1,2 spam... If they are constantly spamming it you can simply d1-4 (depending on the character)

There are options to this for all of the cast that people don't know yet.

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all the cast? that doesn't sound accurate other than armour what do characters with 8f being their fastest move do? risk poking in the neutral game and get blown up by full combo or take an unfavorable trade?

The thing that makes f12b2 godlike is the push back it provides when Raiden has his opponents in the corner. You dont have a free down poke afterwards simply because you cant reach Raiden. Ofc the same thing applies for mid screen. Only Goro can do a d4 to check Raiden and even then, he can counter that with armor to a full combo again.

So imo, make that move -7f with a push back which is enough for characters to be able to check him afterwards.

Metzos said:

The thing that makes f12b2 godlike is the push back it provides when Raiden has his opponents in the corner. You dont have a free down poke afterwards simply because you cant reach Raiden. Ofc the same thing applies for mid screen. Only Goro can do a d4 to check Raiden and even then, he can counter that with armor to a full combo again.

So imo, make that move -7f with a push back which is enough for characters to be able to check him afterwards.

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most reasonable suggestion I have heard yet although I would say -8

brizzle said:

Literally every character has at least an 8 frame normal, I checked. Takeda and kenshi even have an 8 frame uppercut. If a raiden got smacked with a 14% uppercut every time they spammed that string I bet they'd change up their strategy

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You know what happens if Raiden blocks the uppercut though yes? Bb 30% of your life. Thats not an option simply because you cant react to his f1.

How many characters really have safe 50/50's with no meter though into 25-40% anywhere on screen, combined with vortex?

Scorpion is unsafe when he goes overhead.
Sonya is unsafe after her stance moves.
D'vorah can be safe I think.

I don't know how some of you can't agree that with all the good things Raiden has, the vortex is a bit too much. Imagine if Bojutsu-Jin had a vortex lol

CliffP said:

How many characters really have safe 50/50's with no meter though into 25-40% anywhere on screen, combined with vortex?

Scorpion is unsafe when he goes overhead.
Sonya is unsafe after her stance moves.
D'vorah can be safe I think.

I don't know how some of you can't agree that with all the good things Raiden has, the vortex is a bit too much. Imagine if Bojutsu-Jin had a vortex lol

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his 50/50s aren't ment to be safe, option selects are broken and need to go pretty sure everyone who doesn't love SF4 agrees with me there. Get rid of the option selects or make a more extreme change and make b2 non special cancelable which I am also completely fine with.

CJKRattlehead said:

his 50/50s aren't ment to be safe option selects are broken and need to go pretty sure everyone who doesn't love SF4 agrees with me there. Get rid of the option selects or make a more extreme change and make b2 non special cancelable.

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His low is safe even without an OS. OS on b2 needs to go though.

Agreed, the option select puts him over the top, the vortex would be 'balanced' without it.

Metzos said:

His low is safe even without an OS. OS on b2 needs to go though.

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does like 24% in the corner so what? if his overhead was punishable every time it got blocked it would be fine

CliffP said:

Agreed, the option select puts him over the top, the vortex would be 'balanced' without it.

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isn't a vortex where you are forced to guess and can't armour out don't like hearing that term applied to raiden.

CJKRattlehead said:

does like 24% in the corner so what? if his overhead was punishable every time it got blocked it would be fine

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I mean his b32(hold) is safe. I m pretty sure it deals more than 24% in the corner. Its not about the overhead, its about the shocker. The shocker is what this is all about. The only one who can punish a regular shocker on block is Raiden lol.

Metzos said:

I mean his b32(hold) is safe. I m pretty sure it deals more than 24% in the corner. Its not about the overhead, its about the shocker. The shocker is what this is all about. The only one who can punish a regular shocker on block is Raiden lol.

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you can but the point of that string is to keep the loop going no point giving up garunteed pressure for another 3-5% or like 7-12% with 1 bar the last patch rightfully reduced the scaling on his lightning hold strings a great deal.

It's uncertain if these option selects can be removed from the game. There is a different window to cancel on hit then there is to cancel on block, the cancel window on hit ends earlier, the window to cancel on block ends later. There is a chance we are stuck with this option select bullshit until the next MK. Something that can be fixed I think is the ability to make committed special cancels not come out on block by mashing directional inputs after inputting the special, this is a universal thing in the game and could potentially be removed, unless it's a glitch so embedded in the game's code that it can not be fixed, kinda like input bug in MK9.

If Raiden loses his ability to special cancel his overhead he would still be fine. The "on hit nothing/on block special cancel" option selects require character specific nerfs though, because they tie into the shitty blockstun mechanic of the game. Command grab characters need this type of option select to be viable and be able to tic throw with less risk when canceling from crouch pokes, Raiden really doesn't need the OS for his overhead to still be really good.

Metzos said:

You know what happens if Raiden blocks the uppercut though yes? Bb 30% of your life. Thats not an option simply because you cant react to his f1.

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so I just gave up my pressure and sat there and blocked. I should be able to punish if I make that read. Even though the pushback on uppercuts make it almost impossible to punish so no, you wouldn't eat 30%.

Why does everyone want to just take turns trading block strings lol. TG is a rushdown variation. Aren't rushdown characters supposed to have the advantage once you block them? Raidens zoning sucks, he has no teleport or safe way in. So when I do get in I should have the advantage.

It's so funny coming from KI and seeing what people think are broke in mkx. Sabrewulf can literally keep you locked down with frame advantage for the entire match and your only getting out if you backdash or armor. Two options you also have in mkx

I never understood why Raiden got a 6f mid, and KLs spin is 7f?
Raidens string should at least be 9f start up.

Pretty certain there were no mids in MK9 that were faster than 9f.

6f mids are not justifiable, if anybody could give me ONE reason why it's fair to have a move thats both 6f, AND mid, you'll earn a gold star.

The only way to make a 6f mid justifiable, is to make it punishable as fuck (See KL spin MK9)

coolwhip said:

No offense but the "every character has X or Y" argument always bothers me. Just because every character has something doesn't mean it's equally fair or unfair, because not every character has the same complementary tools.

So when you look at everything Raiden has (chip, ridiculous meter building, really good armored moves, one of the best normals in the game, 50/50's etc...) AND you add in a safe-ish overhead, it becomes a huge problem.

Just as an example, Kung Lao having the ability to do b2~spin as an option select is not nearly as big a problem.

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Enlighten me on the B2 spin option select

A F0xy Grampa said:

Enlighten me on the B2 spin option select

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You input b2~ spin and then immediately press down. Timing is strict but once you get it down, the spin will come out on hit but not on block due to the way block stun and hit stun differ in this game.