Question - Sun God Man, sun god and the new cmd grab mechanics

[Eldriken]

Not the same, you can always block or poke...not anymore. Now you have to take a big risk to get out of a brain dead B1 into command grab back into rinse and repeat.

That's why reads exist. You have to make a read and hope it pays off. The opposing player has to do the same thing. If they think you're gonna try and jump out of b1~db2, then they can just do a b1 and attempt to punish your jump attempt or they can go with b14~Sunstone or whatever they choose.

However, at the same time, if you make the read that they think you're gonna jump and intend to punish you for it, don't jump and go from there.

 

[Name v.5.0]

Not the same, you can always block or poke...not anymore. Now you have to take a big risk to get out of a brain dead B1 into command grab back into rinse and repeat.

It's only as braindead as you, the opponent of Kotal, let it be.

Use armor after the first couple of blocked B1s. Let him know that you know the holes. From there the Kotal player would be retarded to do braindead B1~CG if you have meter. Especially if your armor move is a launcher. From there, You can just go down the list of jumps, back dashes and pokes when he tries to stagger B1 on block to see if you move.

It's wont be braindead if you know the MU.


Edit: Seriously....We cant use the R word that means mentally slow? I didnt realize this site was so PC.

 

[DelSchokoladenSaft]

Not the same, you can always block or poke...not anymore. Now you have to take a big risk to get out of a brain dead B1 into command grab back into rinse and repeat.

You do know that you're fighting Kotal right?
D1s and D3s are your answer.
If that doesn't work, armor or jump.
If that doesn't work, zone him out. He's a zoner's wet dream.
It all comes down to learning the matchup; if you don't learn it, he'll seem like the best character in the game.

 

[IrishMantis]

It be annoying for sure but no different than any other mix ups

 

[Eldriken]

You do know that you're fighting Kotal right?
D1s and D3s are your answer.
If that doesn't work, armor or jump.
If that doesn't work, zone him out. He's a zoner's wet dream.
It all comes down to learning the matchup; if you don't learn it, he'll seem like the best character in the game.

I effin' hate zoners as Kotal, especially in War God. I should seriously work on Blood God for those MUs in particular since he handles them a lot better in my opinion.

 

[iSuckAtFightingGames]

Edit: Seriously....We cant use the R word that means mentally slow? I didnt realize this site was so PC.

The PC police have invaded most of American culture. It is just another thing normal Americans are dreadfully ashamed of, yet it is literally everywhere and getting worse.

 

[Name v.5.0]

The PC police have invaded most of American culture. It is just another thing normal Americans are dreadfully ashamed of, yet it is literally everywhere and getting worse.

I hear you...This particularly bothers me because I used the R word in the right context. You would have to be mentally slow to keep doing something that gets you punished over and over.

 

[DelSchokoladenSaft]

I effin' hate zoners as Kotal, especially in War God. I should seriously work on Blood God for those MUs in particular since he handles them a lot better in my opinion.

I'm scared that they'll nerf the ji1 like they did to Kung Lao. I typically go from BG to SG to WG when I play a set with someone.
BG definitely helps to get your fundamentals down. Nothing like standing in sunlight, with obsidian totem and parrying every projectile from full screen.

 

[Eldriken]

I'm scared that they'll nerf the ji1 like they did to Kung Lao. I typically go from BG to SG to WG when I play a set with someone.
BG definitely helps to get your fundamentals down. Nothing like standing in sunlight, with obsidian totem and parrying every projectile from full screen.

I don't really think they should touch his ji1. It's not anywhere near as bad as Lao's ji2. But non-Kotal players hate his ji1, so it's probably gonna receive some form of attention. Oh well, it's to be expected.

 

[Error404]

Just jump he says... And what if he finishes the b1 string? Or it's Jason and he recovers so fast he can anti air you?

You must be a bad player who needs such brokenness to have a chance. Again. No intelligent fighting game player would ever think this is ok.

Jupiter is the best jax in the world and he was even laughing how stupid this was.

The level of stupidity you have reached is beyond this planet. If he finishes the the string , you get hit or you block and punish it. If he guesses wrong and you jump the command grab you hit him. How what's so broken about this?

 

[Wetdoba]

K

I effin' hate zoners as Kotal, especially in War God. I should seriously work on Blood God for those MUs in particular since he handles them a lot better in my opinion.

And thats why it is dumb, if I wanted ffense that was no different from everyone elses then I wouldnt have played a grappler to begin with. The entire point of tick throws is that its a risk for the grappler because if they dont block the initial hit then the grab will whiff and they get blown up, now they wont. This is not a buff to help people that have been playing grapplers since the beginning, it is a buff to make grappling easy and appeal to the masses.

Dont worry, if this is a universal change then you will all change you mind on how dumb it is when Lackey can D1xxcommand grab on hit or block.

If you legitimately enjoy grappling as a playstyle this buff is not for you. Hopefully it is not really universal because I dont want a bunch of frauds picking up FT and thinking theyre hot shit because theres practically no more risk for someone that will know how to take advantage of this on offense

 

[Eldriken]

K

And thats why it is dumb, if I wanted ffense that was no different from everyone elses then I wouldnt have played a grappler to begin with. The entire point of tick throws is that its a risk for the grappler because if they dont block the initial hit then the grab will whiff and they get blown up, now they wont. This is not a buff to help people that have been playing grapplers since the beginning, it is a buff to make grappling easy and appeal to the masses.

Dont worry, if this is a universal change then you will all change you mind on how dumb it is when Lackey can D1xxcommand grab on hit or block.

If you legitimately enjoy grappling as a playstyle this buff is not for you. Hopefully it is not really universal because I dont want a bunch of frauds picking up FT and thinking theyre hot shit because theres practically no more risk for someone that will know how to take advantage of this on offense

The only enjoyment I'm gonna get out of it if it sticks around is that my command grab will still land if my b1 hits someone because they're not respecting it. =P

But what you mentioned about Lackey's d1 gave me chills. Fuck his d1.

 

[Wetdoba]

The only enjoyment I'm gonna get out of it if it sticks around is that my command grab will still land if my b1 hits someone because they're not respecting it. =P

But what you mentioned about Lackey's d1 gave me chills. Fuck his d1.

Fuck your B1. Its the same concept as saying they arent respecting my D1 so D1xxcommand grab should work everytime. If they arent respecting B1 on hit then you should be doing the full string into grab on hit, and if they arent respecting on block you do B1, thats the choice grapplers have to make, now that choice is gone

 

[Zoidberg747]

Hmmm so grapplers are going to be good? As long as they have a tough time against zoning I think this is fair.

What zoning? This is MKX after all


On a serious note this would become pretty broke if it stayed. Even more so for characters like Wrestler Jax. There's a reason grapplers traditionally dont have command throws that work on hit and on block. This would basically force the person defending to either jump back or armor when they block any attack, nd makes it really easy for the grappler to bait accordingly. It schews the risk/reward ratio a little too heavily into grapplers favor.

 

[Eldriken]

Fuck your B1. Its the same concept as saying they arent respecting my D1 so D1xxcommand grab should work everytime. If they arent respecting B1 on hit then you should be doing the full string into grab on hit, and if they arent respecting on block you do B1, thats the choice grapplers have to make, now that choice is gone

Hey, my b1 doesn't hit like half a screen away, damn it.

 

[Name v.5.0]

Fuck your B1. Its the same concept as saying they arent respecting my D1 so D1xxcommand grab should work everytime. If they arent respecting B1 on hit then you should be doing the full string into grab on hit, and if they arent respecting on block you do B1, thats the choice grapplers have to make, now that choice is gone

I dont think any D1's are going to combo in this scenario. You cant D1~anything in this game. So you're shit outta luck. THIS ISNT INJUSTICE BILLY!

 

[SaltShaker]

If Commando Kano, Sun God Kotal, Wrestler Jax are able to do this, and characters like A-List, DF Liu, etc are relatively untouched, then zoners better get legitimately buffed and Sektor better be as broken as this concept is.

There's really no way to fight this without being at constant disadvantage up close. There's "options" against Tanya's pressure and Quan's pressure too, but that doesn't make it any less insane. Only difference is they're getting nerfs while this appears.

 

[Qwark28]

All of you saying you finally have to respect grapplers are forgetting one thing.

Kotal is not a grappler. Just a character with some of the best footsie potential in the game who was given a command grab without any of the actual hindrances to get in that grapplers typically have. And that was fine because of the way command grabs mixed with the natural playstyle and meta of NRS games.

Macuahuitl for thought.

 

[Name v.5.0]

Maybe we should just pump the brakes here people. We don't even know if he can do it yet.

 

[DrManhattan]

The level of stupidity you have reached is beyond this planet. If he finishes the the string , you get hit or you block and punish it. If he guesses wrong and you jump the command grab you hit him. How what's so broken about this?

nope. Ur an absolute rush down scrub who can not be Rationalized with. Lol at u, or anyone, justifying these command grab buffs. You must lose a lot

 

[KeyserSoze]

So...

Sun God is going to have an advancing 9F mid attack that is -2 on block that tick throws on block and hit into a 20% command throw.

I wonder whether he can tick throw from his 6F d+1 too.

This "new" mechanic must be a glitch. Nobody with extensive fighting game knowledge would implement such foolishness.

I understand where you are coming from, because when you explicitly spell it out, it sounds OP. But, in reality, Unstoppable/Relentless Jason has been able to tick throw off of B2 (an advancing mid) on both hit and block since he was released. Jason's B2 doesn't quite have the frame data or reach of Kotal's B1, but the point is, this isn't the game-breaking change you might think it is.

Also, fyi, Jason can successfully tick (on both block and hit) off of F2 (an advancing high) and 24 (a string that starts high).

Edit: Currently, Kotal can tick throw off of his d1 on block, but not on hit. If he were ever able to do it on hit, THAT would be a problem.

Double edit: I'm not arguing that I think Sun God should be able to tick throw off of B1 on both hit and block (he really doesn't need it and is already a very strong character), I'm just pointing out that I don't believe such an implementation would suddenly shoot him up to S tier.

 

[Jaku2011]

Erron Black is gonna be dumb again. Quick 211 command grab used to be a guess if they were gonna block, won't matter now just do it, no one is gonna jump on the first 2 punches.

 

[Wetdoba]

I understand where you are coming from, because when you explicitly spell it out, it sounds OP. But, in reality, Unstoppable/Relentless Jason has been able to tick throw off of B2 (an advancing mid) on both hit and block since he was released. Jason's B2 doesn't quite have the frame data or reach of Kotal's B1, but the point is, this isn't the game-breaking change you might think it is.

Also, fyi, Jason can successfully tick (on both block and hit) off of F2 (an advancing high) and 24 (a string that starts high).

Edit: Currently, Kotal can tick throw off of his d1 on block, but not on hit. If he were ever able to do it on hit, THAT would be a problem.

Jason is a special case because B2 and 24 launch for a combo in the air so grab will combo naturally like Kotal when he does B122 grab. Jasons F2 also does not trigger autoblock and allows you to link normals afterwards. With Kotal B1 keeps them standing in hitstun which universally is suppose to make grabs whiff because you cant grab them when they are standing in hit or block stun.

 

[KeyserSoze]

Jason is a special case because B2 and 24 launch for a combo in the air so grab will combo naturally like Kotal when he does B122 grab. Jasons F2 also does not trigger autoblock and allows you to link normals afterwards. With Kotal B1 keeps them standing in hitstun which universally is suppose to make grabs whiff because you cant grab them when they are standing in hit or block stun.

Eh, in the case of Jason's B2 vs Kotal's B1, I don't think that difference is particularly relevant to the discussion at hand. The point remains that Jason can tick quite successfully with his B2 (an advancing mid) on both block and mid. I do it all of the time. It's good, but not game-changing. The only relevant difference here is that Jason's B2 has a slower startup than Kotal's B1 (it's also not as safe on block, but that doesn't matter much, either).

The only other thing you could argue is that Kota's B1~db2 motion is considerably easier than Jason's B2~DBF2 motion, but in all honesty, Jason's is also quite easy after a little practice (particularly in Unstoppable).

 

[HuttonMD]

The PC police have invaded most of American culture. It is just another thing normal Americans are dreadfully ashamed of, yet it is literally everywhere and getting worse.