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General/Other - Erron Black Erron Black General Discussion Thread

thlityoursloat

kick kick
I need seious help against Erron Black. These past few days were the days where I just got bodied endlessly by Erron Blacks and Liu Kangs. I play Johnny, Kenshi, and I pocket Kano and Hat Trick Lao. Any advice would be much appreciated.
What specifically is bothering you? 21122 mixups/pressure? If that's the case, then you'll have to just guess a lot.
 

cambros22

Stand Back I'm a Doctor!!!!!!
You could just let go of block and take the last hit of 21122 to avoid 90% of the mixups and its not a hard knockdown.
might as well jump out instead of letting go of block. You will get the same result except if they using command grab or ex sandgrenade before the last cancel window, you get a free whiff punish on a cross over jump.
 

cambros22

Stand Back I'm a Doctor!!!!!!
Gunslinger and Outlaw specifically. Marksman I don't fight often, but I'm not gonna just skip out on learning the MU for Marksman either.
Me personally, I find that EB has a hard time against characters with good evasion tools via jump backs, dive kicks and good low profile normals. Add in some form of zoning and he is forced to make reads to get inside ( in outlaw). Try to avoid the corner and learn to deal with his 21122 and be ready to low profile it if he starts up from a distance. Gunslinger's zoning is momentum based. Once he gets started he can hold a player out, but its contingent mostly on that first spinshot or coinshot confirm. Take away his zoning momentum. He can apply decent pressure that u just have to be comfortable.
 

21122

Noob
might as well jump out instead of letting go of block. You will get the same result except if they using command grab or ex sandgrenade before the last cancel window, you get a free whiff punish on a cross over jump.
Not true, most EB players ex-sand AFTER 21122 since it jails you, there is no reason to do it before the end of the string on block. You will end up getting hit if you tried that.
 

cambros22

Stand Back I'm a Doctor!!!!!!
Yes but why would you risk getting blown up by doing it before the string? Better to just let the 21122 rock all the way and only be -1.
most would only cancel before if they were going for a command grab. The jump out gives u a free whiff punish no matter what they choose to cancel into. and if they ride it out, they have to make a read and decide to slide, command grab, ex-sand.
 
Gunslinger and Outlaw specifically. Marksman I don't fight often, but I'm not gonna just skip out on learning the MU for Marksman either.
since you play johnny cage, when erron black goes into 21122, spam the shit out of ex nutpunch during the last 3 punches, since you are pressing r2 the game will read it as a block and if they go for a command grab, tarkatan sword, or even exSG ex nutpunch will come out and you get a full combo with restand
 

21122

Noob
most would only cancel before if they were going for a command grab. The jump out gives u a free whiff punish no matter what they choose to cancel into. and if they ride it out, they have to make a read and decide to slide, command grab, ex-sand.
If you ride it out you don't have to make a read to slide, command, or ex-sand. Command grab whiffs after the full 21122 btw

You can still win with a D1 poke depending on what your opponent does or you can jump over.
 
A lot of things but 21122 and his mixups are the bane of my existence.
Noob Erron black players also have a tendency to walk forward before going with b3 because b3 has no range, really the only time EB has an unreadable 50/50 is on wake-up, you can just ex nut punch the jump in 50/50
 

coconutshrimp

Damn vro, hadda mess with yo auntie
Thanks guys. I really appreciate the advice. You have no idea the amount of Erron Blacks I fought in the past couple weeks so to be able to finally have some means of dealing with it, I am thankful.
 

cambros22

Stand Back I'm a Doctor!!!!!!
If you ride it out you don't have to make a read to slide, command, or ex-sand. Command grab whiffs after the full 21122 btw

You can still win with a D1 poke depending on what your opponent does or you can jump over.
Are u talking about the guy who is blocking 21122 pr the guy using 21122?
Im pretty sure the point of jumping at any point in the string is to deter the command grab from connecting. we know it jails if you ride the string out to the end. Im just saying that instead of just releasing block and taking the last hit to make the ex-sand whiff, why not just jump out before the string finishes. That way, if they do command grab or ex-sand, they will get whiff punished. if your wrong, you take the hits like u intended.
 

21122

Noob
Are u talking about the guy who is blocking 21122 pr the guy using 21122?
Im pretty sure the point of jumping at any point in the string is to deter the command grab from connecting. we know it jails if you ride the string out to the end. Im just saying that instead of just releasing block and taking the last hit to make the ex-sand whiff, why not just jump out before the string finishes. That way, if they do command grab or ex-sand, they will get whiff punished. if your wrong, you take the hits like u intended.
Blocking person.

You can't jump out of 21122 if the opponent doesn't cancel it into anything, you'll just end up eating the hits and taking almost the same amount of damage of the sand trap or they can just get a full combo punish out of it with gunslinger/outlaw with the stance 2 and sand toss reset (not sure about marksmen, never use him lol)
 
Blocking person.

You can't jump out of 21122 if the opponent doesn't cancel it into anything, you'll just end up eating the hits and taking almost the same amount of damage of the sand trap or they can just get a full combo punish out of it with gunslinger/outlaw with the stance 2 and sand toss reset (not sure about marksmen, never use him lol)
If you cancel ex SG or the command grab on block on any punch EXCLUDING the last punch you can jump out. Literally the ONLY string Erron has that jails is 21122xxEXSG
 

cambros22

Stand Back I'm a Doctor!!!!!!
Blocking person.

You can't jump out of 21122 if the opponent doesn't cancel it into anything, you'll just end up eating the hits and taking almost the same amount of damage of the sand trap or they can just get a full combo punish out of it with gunslinger/outlaw with the stance 2 and sand toss reset (not sure about marksmen, never use him lol)
if your gonna release block at a cancel window and they dont cancel, then u take the hit. so why not release block and jump out. it does the same thing except it takes away the sand grenade option if they decide they want to do it at the the first or second cancel window. You cant avoid guessing on taking the command grab or not. but u can still make it hard for the player to decide if he wants to ride the string all the way out to ex sand or not. because if u jump at the second cancel window and he is committed to ridding it out, you take the hit and go full screen and he wastes a bar, if he decides to cancel into anything before riding the string out, u get the punish if u guess the correct window. anyone doing a raw sand toss on a 21122 block string is taking a huge risk considering the punish if you block it. but overall they cant convert anything if you do try to jump out. U can cross over jump markmans rifle swing and tarkartan stab but if they use sand gust ur blown up. Taking the last hit of 21122 is 5%, way better than taking 13%
 
you dont even have to get hit by the last hit of the string if you go to the lab and learn how to press R2 for each punch in 21122 to make the command grab whiff. It's tricky online but DJT does it all the time offline