General/Other - Erron Black Erron Black General Discussion Thread

[carrion4worm]

Don't know if it's a duster, but Erron will get a new skin in the next round of DLC. I hope during the inevitable patching we also get 3 things..
1. revert to original recovery of b32u1 (window is too tight for consistent njp follow up)
2. sand tackle needs a few more plus frames on hit. Not as much as vanilla, but somewhere in between then and now.
3. 1 frame faster poke...cuz Erron needs it!

I know there are about 10 Erron mains out there, lol. What 3 things would you want? I went for universal changes which I feel would help
Marksman sit right alongside his other variations.

 

[Groove Heaven]

Honestly I think he's in a really good place now. All 3 variations are viable and unique and a lot of characters don't have that. He has flaws but he's still a very strong and fun to play.

I definitely wouldn't mind buffs, but I would be perfectly happy if they left him the way he is now. I'm much more concerned with a new costume...

 

[carrion4worm]

Honestly I think he's in a really good place now. All 3 variations are viable and unique and a lot of characters don't have that. He has flaws but he's still a very strong and fun to play.

I definitely wouldn't mind buffs, but I would be perfectly happy if they left him the way he is now. I'm much more concerned with a new costume...

yeah I agree. 2 of my buffs are really just negating past nerfs, which also were unnecessary. just played Kano in his 'revolution' skin and they did a great job animating his trenchcoat. I see no reason why the duster isn't a great idea for his upcoming skin.

 

[Thanilla Ice]

A few pages ago I said something about people respecting 21122 and it gun cancel pressure is very good ya'll spited me. It took me a while to get the absolute PERFECT round where I could show you guys what would happen if I get people to respect the string... and I did it

30%+ chip lol
This was about game 8 into the set. He knew he could poke out of 21122xxgc, 21122 as he did it before but I kept catching him with the ex sand nades and got a good 30% off of it so he decided to keep blocking. This is the result of that lol
Of course its ridiculously unsafe, the idiot knew he could armor after the sand nade, oddly he stopped armoring when I made one read

 

[thlityoursloat]

Um... I really don't think your opponent knows the matchup. I'm pretty sure he's had 10394101410 opportunities to EX nut punch in that video.

 

[Thanilla Ice]

Um... I really don't think your opponent knows the matchup. I'm pretty sure he's had 10394101410 opportunities to EX nut punch in that video.

he armored before

 

[21122]

He could of armored out at the 19 second mark and at the 20 second mark. He could of also poked out as well. I know you said he could armour out of it but he could of and he didn't and not because he respected the 21122 its because I believe he does not know the match up that well.

 

[cambros22]

A few pages ago I said something about people respecting 21122 and it gun cancel pressure is very good ya'll spited me. It took me a while to get the absolute PERFECT round where I could show you guys what would happen if I get people to respect the string... and I did it

30%+ chip lol
This was about game 8 into the set. He knew he could poke out of 21122xxgc, 21122 as he did it before but I kept catching him with the ex sand nades and got a good 30% off of it so he decided to keep blocking. This is the result of that lol
Of course its ridiculously unsafe, the idiot knew he could armor after the sand nade, oddly he stopped armoring when I made one read

Man that guy doesnt know the matchup.. d4 blowup all day

 

[Thanilla Ice]

Are you guys reading the post???

 

[B. Shazzy]

I thibk you have time to react to the rifle cancel to poke. Good for online though.

 

[cambros22]

I thibk you have time to react to the rifle cancel to poke. Good for online though.

There is plenty of time to react with a low poke against 21122. You just have to be comfortable in the matchup. alot of players would have just low profiled the run in 21122 with a d4. Armor is the easier option.

 

[HeroesNZ]

21122 GC is around +1 so against certain characters like in the Erron Black mirror your D1 should beat out their fastest normal. This lets you condition them to block the D1 after 21122 GC allowing you to get free 50/50s or throws or whatever. If you're feeling brave you can condition them to block by letting the gunshot go every now and then too.

Also after 21122 GC your opponent will probably wanna use their fastest crouch poke which will more than likely be negative so you could just block their poke and then it's your turn again.

 

[thlityoursloat]

EX nut punch is safe, there's no reason he shouldn't have done it.

 

[Thanilla Ice]

EX nut punch is safe, there's no reason he shouldn't have done it.

It's not safe, what u talking bout Willis

 

[thlityoursloat]

It's not safe, what u talking bout Willis

It is safe. It has godlike block stun and pushback lol.

 

[InFlames]

It is safe. It has godlike block stun and pushback lol.

and you have s2

 

[Thanilla Ice]

It is safe. It has godlike block stun and pushback lol.

You can armor in between the punches. And you can punish the last punch with 21122 for a full combo. Do you not play mkx??

 

[CaptainCM]

A reply to people looking down on Marksman.

I feel like Marksman in this thread is treated similar to how Sub-Zero was treated by Tom Brady. He used to go on about how, if the opponent knows this, this and this - SZ is fucked. However, when I watch Madzin and DJT (to some extent) play, it turns out many-many people don't know/not ready for shenanigans or just make wrong reads. You don't stop using tools like ex db4 in Outlaw or SOS3 in Gunslinger simply because it's punishable.

Also, I don't get why some people talk about GCs as if you are forced to attack after them. Blocking is probably the best option after GC. Block their poke, and if it's minus on block, take advantage. If they like to d1 you after 21122 GC - you can totally NJP them, I doubt they'll want to backdash against the threat of 21122 or exSG, making it a pretty safe option when used sparingly. It's just a matter of having a couple more options in neutral, really.

But it's not even that, GC clearly isn't a pressure tool, sure you can get a couple of 21122 in a row in last round if you have been conditioning opponent the whole game, nobody cares. However the fact that GC makes f13 and b33 safe 50/50 launchers is what lets Marksman to fight on par with Outlaw and Gunslinger, at least in my opinion. Prior to NRS taking out option selects, Outlaw was much better than Marksman (and imo, required even better execution), but now mm is the only variation that is 100% safe on 50/50s. When you wake them up in the corner after caltrops, it's great to not have to settle for f132 or b32d1, but have an opportunity of getting 40% for practically no cost.

Of course I won't boast about Marksman's "zoning", because it's a joke. However if you are at full screen against a zoner, df1~hold can make them hesitant to just throw shit out mindlessly, they know a trade will be in your favor. This, in turn, let's you get in easier. Other than that, his zoning is pathetic.



tl; dr
1) Marksman is on par with Outlaw and Gunslinger due to safe 50/50 launchers (mainly).
2) Ditch the idea that every cancel in the game must be +billion on block - it's a privilege, not necessity.

I honestly think that all 3 variations of EB are equally good and it really comes down to personal preference, which is awesome.

 

[Bucketfeet]

We should have an All Erron black KOTH one day. That would be pretty cool.

 

[Thanilla Ice]

A reply to people looking down on Marksman.

I feel like Marksman in this thread is treated similar to how Sub-Zero is treated by Tom Brady. He goes on about how, if the opponent knows this, this and this - SZ is fucked. However, when I watch Madzin and DJT (to some extent) play, it turns out many-many people don't know/not ready for shenanigans or just make wrong reads. You don't stop using tools like ex db4 in Outlaw or SOS3 in Gunslinger simply because it's punishable.

Also, I don't get why some people talk about GCs as if you are forced to attack after them. Blocking is probably the best option after GC. Block their poke, and if it's minus on block, take advantage. If they like to d1 you after 21122 GC - you can totally NJP them, I doubt they'll want to backdash against the threat of 21122 or exSG, making it a pretty safe option when used sparingly. It's just a matter of having a couple more options in neutral, really.

But it's not even that, GC clearly isn't a pressure tool, sure you can get a couple of 21122 in a row in last round if you have been conditioning opponent the whole game, nobody cares. However the fact that GC makes f13 and b33 safe 50/50 launchers is what lets Marksman to fight on par with Outlaw and Gunslinger, at least in my opinion. Prior to NRS taking out option selects, Outlaw was much better than Marksman (and imo, required even better execution), but now mm is the only variation that is 100% safe on 50/50s. When you wake them up in the corner after caltrops, it's great to not have to settle for f132 or b32d1, but have an opportunity of getting 40% for practically no cost.

Of course I won't boast about Marksman's "zoning", because it's a joke. However if you are at full screen against a zoner, df1~hold can make them hesitant to just throw shit out mindlessly, they know a trade will be in your favor. This, in turn, let's you get in easier. Other than that, his zoning is pathetic.



tl; dr
1) Marksman is on par with Outlaw and Gunslinger due to safe 50/50 launchers (mainly).
2) Ditch the idea that every cancel in the game must be +billion on block - it's a privilege, not necessity.

I honestly think that all 3 variations of EB are equally good and it really comes down to personal preference, which is awesome.

Give this man a medal. A gold one at that

 

[Tom Brady]

A reply to people looking down on Marksman.

I feel like Marksman in this thread is treated similar to how Sub-Zero is treated by Tom Brady. He goes on about how, if the opponent knows this, this and this - SZ is fucked. However, when I watch Madzin and DJT (to some extent) play, it turns out many-many people don't know/not ready for shenanigans or just make wrong reads. You don't stop using tools like ex db4 in Outlaw or SOS3 in Gunslinger simply because it's punishable.

Also, I don't get why some people talk about GCs as if you are forced to attack after them. Blocking is probably the best option after GC. Block their poke, and if it's minus on block, take advantage. If they like to d1 you after 21122 GC - you can totally NJP them, I doubt they'll want to backdash against the threat of 21122 or exSG, making it a pretty safe option when used sparingly. It's just a matter of having a couple more options in neutral, really.

But it's not even that, GC clearly isn't a pressure tool, sure you can get a couple of 21122 in a row in last round if you have been conditioning opponent the whole game, nobody cares. However the fact that GC makes f13 and b33 safe 50/50 launchers is what lets Marksman to fight on par with Outlaw and Gunslinger, at least in my opinion. Prior to NRS taking out option selects, Outlaw was much better than Marksman (and imo, required even better execution), but now mm is the only variation that is 100% safe on 50/50s. When you wake them up in the corner after caltrops, it's great to not have to settle for f132 or b32d1, but have an opportunity of getting 40% for practically no cost.

Of course I won't boast about Marksman's "zoning", because it's a joke. However if you are at full screen against a zoner, df1~hold can make them hesitant to just throw shit out mindlessly, they know a trade will be in your favor. This, in turn, let's you get in easier. Other than that, his zoning is pathetic.



tl; dr
1) Marksman is on par with Outlaw and Gunslinger due to safe 50/50 launchers (mainly).
2) Ditch the idea that every cancel in the game must be +billion on block - it's a privilege, not necessity.

I honestly think that all 3 variations of EB are equally good and it really comes down to personal preference, which is awesome.

What? I said SZ is top 5-7 and makes in nearly impossible to get up in the corner. Get out of the month May and join us in December. Do you even know what SZ can do with what I found?

 

[21122]

Lord Brady has awoken

 

[CaptainCM]

What? I said SZ is top 5-7 and makes in nearly impossible to get up in the corner. Get out of the month May and join us in December. Do you even know what SZ can do with what I found?

I know what SZ can do, I watch your stream from time to time. You're right, what I wrote was unintentionally partially incorrect. Post edited.

 

[coconutshrimp]

I need seious help against Erron Black. These past few days were the days where I just got bodied endlessly by Erron Blacks and Liu Kangs. I play Johnny, Kenshi, and I pocket Kano and Hat Trick Lao. Any advice would be much appreciated.

 

[cambros22]

I need seious help against Erron Black. These past few days were the days where I just got bodied endlessly by Erron Blacks and Liu Kangs. I play Johnny, Kenshi, and I pocket Kano and Hat Trick Lao. Any advice would be much appreciated.

Which variation on Erron Black are you talking about?