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Question - Summoner Is this character overly downplayed?

Is summoner broken?

  • Yes,his tools are too strong

    Votes: 59 43.7%
  • No,he's fair you're upplaying

    Votes: 52 38.5%
  • completely broken,definitely top 5

    Votes: 18 13.3%
  • Not at all,he's so overated

    Votes: 6 4.4%

  • Total voters
    135

Rude

You will serve me in The Netherrealm
That's an awfully cheap way to admit "leave my characters overly strong tools alone" by pretending that buffing low tiers suddenly makes quan fair. I don't care how many times you buff Spectral Ermac its not going to make Quans ridculous zoning, damage, mixups, or vortex game any less hard to deal with.

We've seen low tiers buffed to the point where they become incredibly broken (shinnok), and we've seen top tiers fly under the radar (Jax and 47% midscrren say hi) by the very logic you seem to be advocating.
I don't have an agenda. I want as many strong characters as possible.

But again, we've all had this talk and this thread twice before.
 

Scoot Magee

But I didn't want to dash
LOL at the poll choices. Completely broken definitely top 5 lol. I guess in order to be a top 5 character in MKX you must be completely broken.
 

Rude

You will serve me in The Netherrealm
That's an awfully cheap way to admit "leave my characters overly strong tools alone" by pretending that buffing low tiers suddenly makes quan fair. I don't care how many times you buff Spectral Ermac its not going to make Quans ridculous zoning, damage, mixups, or vortex game any less hard to deal with.

We've seen low tiers buffed to the point where they become incredibly broken (shinnok), and we've seen top tiers fly under the radar (Jax and 47% midscrren say hi) by the very logic you seem to be advocating.

To call back an earlier talking point i made about people not breaking down match ups, did you know that there are ways around Summoner zoning?

It's true that there are variations on the Bat, Rune, Skull tandem that you have to block. Of course.

But it doesn't loop infinitely. If you Block say, a Bat, Skull, then Rune sequence, after the MB Rune the meta becomes this:

The Quan player could check your movement with a Rune.

Or he could use the + frames to call a Bat safely.

If he attempts the Rune check, you have options. Block it, and it's negative enough to begin your approach.

Or you could use an armored teleport or advancing special.

Now, say he calls the bat. Now both you and the Quan player have to make reads. If he throws the bat and you jump, the bat whiffs and you can run in and start pressure. If he reads the jump, he can do something else.

Likewise if he goes for an anti-jump option and you run, you're in.

There is a whole meta game behind the zoning. It's not just "projectile spam." If you make the correct read, you can get in and put him in a situation he has trouble handling.

Likewise, if he makes the correct read he keeps you out.

That's how it's supposed to be vs a good zoner.

This is to say nothing of the fact that people still aren't armoring the gaps between mb rune and b2, or the gaps between b32 and mb Rune.

The point is, the character has holes besides just defense.

If more time were spent breaking this down, performing defensive option selects vs his armorable gaps, they would struggle less.

Note, i do think Quan Chi is top ten. I also would rather we just play the game, break it down and try to improve our play over begging NRS to nerf everything we don't like.
 

protools27

Rebel without a scene
I think the term "broken" is thrown around too loosely.
To call back an earlier talking point i made about people not breaking down match ups, did you know that there are ways around Summoner zoning?

It's true that there are variations on the Bat, Rune, Skull tandem that you have to block. Of course.

But it doesn't loop infinitely. If you Block say, a Bat, Skull, then Rune sequence, after the MB Rune the meta becomes this:

The Quan player could check your movement with a Rune.

Or he could use the + frames to call a Bat safely.

If he attempts the Rune check, you have options. Block it, and it's negative enough to begin your approach.

Or you could use an armored teleport or advancing special.

Now, say he calls the bat. Now both you and the Quan player have to make reads. If he throws the bat and you jump, the bat whiffs and you can run in and start pressure. If he reads the jump, he can do something else.

Likewise if he goes for an anti-jump option and you run, you're in.

There is a whole meta game behind the zoning. It's not just "projectile spam." If you make the correct read, you can get in and put him in a situation he has trouble handling.

Likewise, if he makes the correct read he keeps you out.

That's how it's supposed to be vs a good zoner.

This is to say nothing of the fact that people still aren't armoring the gaps between mb rune and b2, or the gaps between b32 and mb Rune.

The point is, the character has holes besides just defense.

If more time were spent breaking this down, performing defensive option selects vs his armorable gaps, they would struggle less.

Note, i do think Quan Chi is top ten. I also would rather we just play the game, break it down and try to improve our play over begging NRS to nerf everything we don't like.
Technically everything has a meta. Yea there are ways around Quan's zoning, just like there are ways around everything else in the game, its more of a question of who's at a better advantage in said meta. If you guess right on Quan's zoning, sure you can get in and pressure him, but if you guess wrong, you either get hit with something and your right back in the zoning blender, or you get hit with something into hard to blockable overhead low/low overhead vortex that repeats itself, and can be made plus for a bar of meter for another 50/50, or 40 + percent combos that put you right back at full screen to start the zoning all over again, or high damaging combos that cant be broken, etc etc.

I think the word "broken" is tossed around too loosely. While very very strong, nothing about quans vortexs "breaks" the game. Its just stupid good. Could it be toned down? Yea sure.

My biggest issue with the quan community is when people suggest that he some how NEEDS an armored reversal or get off the ground wake up, as if hes not a top tier character already, or god forbid a character with arguably the best offense and zoning in the game have SOME sort of weakness.
 

DreadKnight1

Beaten, by this mere man
Who downplays Quan?
It's not anyone specifically it's the general consensus Quan players have that he's fair/balanced because he has amazing offence but awful defence.to me his offence is broken so it's downplaying to say "but he's overated he has no options for defence"
 

I GOT HANDS

Official Infrared Scorp wid gapless Wi-Fi pressure
I think the word "broken" is tossed around too loosely. While very very strong, nothing about quans vortexs "breaks" the game. Its just stupid good. Could it be toned down? Yea sure.
Have you actually seen what Quan is capable of? To me its just that he does too much

50/50 check
Guess right, immediately block the opposite way, check
Flexible timing on the 50/50, check
1-2 frame BLOCK LINKS, check
Oh you got all that? another 50/50 that puts you right back to square 1 if you happen to not predict 2 50/50's in a row



Lets be realistic. QC needs insane offense. He NEEDS it, without it hes nothing. However, something here needs to be tweaked. I shouldn't have to correctly guess whether you are going overhead before low or not, then somehow READ when you decide to time it considering its flexible, then add to all of this, the execution is a tiny percentage of a second to link the up/down block on top of it, then even if I do all that, have to guess again just to have a chance to get free. I'm all for QC's offense being insane, but as it stands, it's just too much in MKX... now you probably think that I'm asking for him to be nerfed hard or something like that, NO. Quan Chi needs it, thats just how it is. However I do think we would still have a crazy Quan Chi without the 1-2 frame links. Just make it so if you guess right, the execution is somewhat plausible. The pseudo unblockable shit is ridiculous, it's not something the best player in the world can lab out, BECAUSE THE QC PLAYER can adjust the timing as he pleases. This is the only change QC needs.
 
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This character is on both extreme sides of the spectrum. I feel the pain of Summoner Quan players who say that have little to no options against pressure from characters like Lui Kang, but then again he has a pseudo unblockable 50/50 vortex that can be plus. Summoner Quan is just a terrible character by design. Both of these issues need to be dealt with.
 
Can't she just F12B3? Or whatever that string is called? And get 30+% in all variations? Matter of fact. She can just d3 check because she'll recover fast enough to punish or still stuff his wakeup
She can do that to almost everyone who tries to wakeup. And why would Quan try to wake up anyway lol.
 

protools27

Rebel without a scene
Have you actually seen what Quan is capable of? To me its just that he does too much

50/50 check
Guess right, immediately block the opposite way, check
Flexible timing on the 50/50, check
1-2 frame BLOCK LINKS, check
Oh you got all that? another 50/50 that puts you right back to square 1 if you happen to not predict 2 50/50's in a row



Lets be realistic. QC needs insane offense. He NEEDS it, without it hes nothing. However, something here needs to be tweaked. I shouldn't have to correctly guess whether you are going overhead before low or not, then somehow READ when you decide to time it considering its flexible, then add to all of this, the execution is a tiny percentage of a second to link the up/down block on top of it, then even if I do all that, have to guess again just to have a chance to get free. I'm all for QC's offense being insane, but as it stands, it's just too much in MKX... now you probably think that I'm asking for him to be nerfed hard or something like that, NO. Quan Chi needs it, thats just how it is. However I do think we would still have a crazy Quan Chi without the 1-2 frame links. Just make it so if you guess right, the execution is somewhat plausible. The pseudo unblockable shit is ridiculous, it's not something the best player in the world can lab out, BECAUSE THE QC PLAYER can adjust the timing as he pleases. This is the only change QC needs.
Yes I am quite aware of what he can do. It just seems to me that a lot of people throw out certain words too casually in the FGC. I am in no way downplaying how good quans vortex is, its the best in the game by a long shot, better really then any ive ever seen in my short time in the FGC (injustice and MKX). Of course it could be toned down, but by the very definition of the word its not "broken". Something can be stupid good and need to be turned down without being "broken"

Lao getting a bar of meter for wake up tele is broken, because it literally breaks the rules of the game.
 

buyacushun

Normalize grab immunity.
TYM too used to the insane way NRS makes characters. A lot of this game gets the "This part of my character is so strong cause he/she is ass elsewhere." A character can be simple and effective without it being braindead.

As for Quan, his mixups get crazy and could be toned down and maybe give his skycrush 2 hits of armor? The animation of that move is never going to reliably work with one hit. I think he even loses the armor on the way down. I personally don't know what to do with Quan but having a character with that kind of offense is too crazy even for MKx. But having hilariously bad armor is just as bad by these games standards. Even Kitana got buffed to get combos off of armored wakeup.
 

Grec

Noob
He's fine because in the end it's up to the Quan player to have the balls to be on 100% offense all the time, using moves like skydrop or trance in the right situations and constantly be pressing buttons and INTELLIGENTLY too to have an overwhelming offense both zoning AND in your mixups.

It's NOT something everyone can do. Quan is perfectly fine as is because if he wasn't he'd be dominating everything.
 

GNG Iniquity

#bufftaquito #punchwalk #whiffycage
He's the same character design as MK9 just a bit better this time around. If you start beating Quan Chi's ass...he's fucked. I do not see this character being top tier indefinitely. Might be A through B tier but S tier? No. You guys are smoking something.

Boneshaper? Oh yes...Shinnok is really fucking good.
 

EGP Wonder_Chef

Official Quan Chi Nerf Demander™
Man, you think Mileena at +2 is significant advantage to cover the fact that once Quan Chi hits you is over for you?

And btw 1 is a high lol, I don't have the time to run and do that string on my basic bnbs, I need to sacrifice damage to end with 21U4. Should I do that to be at +2? Mileena at +2 is nothing really.

You block a 50/50, prepare for another. He blocks a 50/50 and it's over.
You just said that Mileena can't take advantage of him having bad wakeups, so I explained how she can take advantage of it like you asked. Dunno what the issue is.
 

ABACABB

End Of Humanity
People who say his bad defense and no wakeup are not enough to make him fair clearly dont know what they are talking about. In this game where rushdown dominates , corner game is super strong and almost everyone have armor its major weakness. For example when liu kang just touches quan hes dead. And you have jax tanya predator lao dvorah cassie sonya cage kotal erron and list goes on and on ... every character from that list if he gets quan in corner its like block infinite for him :v Now you say , yeah but he can keep them out with zoning . Not rly , they all can aromor through it easly or teleport ( only kotal cant )
 

tatterbug4

Bug of tater's
Can they not just make summoner at differently? It's so hard to block that crap.

I usually get out using a breaker (then I have no stamina!) I'm lucky to even block it.