General/Other - Swarm Queen Why the second D'Vorah nerf is unnecessary

[Take$$$]

doin what? 1 frame links ? like in other games as well? or just 2ndcs etc

The 2ndcs

 

[RM AtK!]

The 2ndcs

mmm iono i think i picked up kabal like around this time last year for fun. i think it only took like a month or so to be able to do all the ndcs (like the ex ones and all that)

 

[Take$$$]

mmm iono i think i picked up kabal like around this time last year for fun. i think it only took like a month or so to be able to do all the ndcs (like the ex ones and all that)

Yeah I think that's why there's a difference here. A lot of us already put in the work since release when b1 and 112 wcs were already difficult, and out of nowhere the difficulty got increased as high as possible likely due to a complete accident on NRS's part.

That's where the frustration is coming from, but its not like we're not going to put in the work. Most of us have already started labbing to get used to the new timing, its just very inconvenient right next to CEO and annoying overall(not to mention straight up makes her unplayable for some people, sadly). I hope you can understand that.

 

[Farpafraf]

Abandoning the character over this is a little overboard, but far be it from me to judge I suppose.

Why not change variations?

I'm not switching char nor variation: many of us aren't even if this is very frustratring.
Personally I'll get down those fuc*ing just frames but if NRS decides to take down her WGCs in the next patch I'll murder someone.

 

[RM AtK!]

Yeah I think that's why there's a difference here. A lot of us already put in the work since release when b1 and 112 wca were already difficult, and out of nowhere the difficulty got increased as high as possible likely due to a complete accident on NRS's part.

That's where the frustration is coming from, but its not like we're not going to put in the work. Most of us have already started labbing and to get used to the new timing, its just very inconvenient right next to CEO and annoying overall(not to mention straight up makes her unplayable for some people, sadly). I hope you can understand that.

for sure m8, i hopped on her once before i didnt remember the b1 being hard to connect at all, but like you said everyones different and i can still understand the frustration in it being more strict. but i think you guys will work it out. if most of you, which i'm sure you guys have been working on all ur bug cancels and making them as tight as possible. you guys should be able to get it clean and consistent in no time.

i feel you though, kinda sux right before CEO still, but i believe in you guys as long as you've been puttin the execution in beforehand. You will be fine

 

[Take$$$]

for sure m8, i hopped on her once before i didnt remember the b1 being hard to connect at all, but like you said everyones different and i can still understand the frustration in it being more strict. but i think you guys will work it out. if most of you, which i'm sure you guys have been working on all ur bug cancels and making them as tight as possible. you guys should be able to get it clean and consistent in no time.

i feel you though, kinda sux right before CEO still, but i believe in you guys as long as you've been puttin the execution in beforehand. You will be fine

Yeah thankfully I had them really tight before, so the change isn't as bad as it could be, but I'm not sure how I'll function in a tournament environment with these changes yet. Maybe NRS will even lower it a frame or two eventually, who knows. Hopefully it goes well! Thanks dude.

 

[Notez4]

That's with plinking, turning them into mashable 2 frame links.

I dont think you know what your talking about. as if you can mash a 2 frame link.

 

[STRYKIE]

@STRYKIE @BillStickers take care of my light work for meh...

you're character is fine btw m8.. some of the execution is tighter now big deal, and YOU MIGHT have to actually think and not autopilot incase of an armor attempt. it's not the end of the world. she's barely been touched tbh

Footage of the AA gas blast into full screen NDC F4 or GTFO.

But in all seriousness, 1 frame links are definitely doable, certainly doesn't help having to get acquainted with them a few days before a major though.

 

[M2Dave]

What exactly is Honey Bee asking for by starting this thread? He IS in fact complaining. He is unhappy with the change. He is voicing it. That is called complaining.

Complaining may be justifiable, but what I find worrisome as an active observer of this thread is that no perpetrators have been officially identified. The question is, who is to blame for these normalizations? Ducky? Krayzie Bone? Online players? TYM scrubs masquerading as high level players? Warner Brothers executives? Honey Bee has been complaining without providing any answers to this crucial question.

 

[PND OmegaK]

B1 WC isn't too bad, still feels like one fluid motion. 112 WC is dead awkward though, just gonna have to practice it more.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

@HoneyBee what I don't get is, how would reducing the + frames on f112~BC by a total of 2 frames make a massive difference if bug cancels stayed the same speed?

Honestly I'm not sure why she needs so much advantage off that string at all, but it seems these two changes were probably meant to work in tandem to produce a bigger gap.

 

[RM AtK!]

Yeah thankfully I had them really tight before, so the change isn't as bad as it could be, but I'm not sure how I'll function in a tournament environment with these changes yet. Maybe NRS will even lower it a frame or two eventually, who knows. Hopefully it goes well! Thanks dude.

you got it bro! tourney nerves are a whole nother thing though haha. i think everyone gets em, or has had them.. best of luck to you my man! if you need any help with RC stuff you can msg me and ill try to help best i can

 

[Take$$$]

Complaining may be justifiable, but what I find worrisome as an active observer of this thread is that no perpetrators have been officially identified. The question is, who is to blame for these normalizations? Ducky? Krayzie Bone? Online players? TYM scrubs masquerading as high level players? Warner Brothers executives? Honey Bee has been complaining without providing any answers to this crucial question.

They've been explored in the thread already, its likely an unintended side effect of changing the + frames on f112 wc.

@HoneyBee what I don't get is, how would reducing the frames on f112~BC by a total of 2 frames make a massive difference if bug cancels stayed the same speed?

Honestly I'm not sure why she needs so much advantage off that string at all, but it seems these two changes were probably meant to work in tandem to produce a bigger gap.

Well she wouldn't have a 50/50 off the blockstring even if they completely reverted the 2nd change, but that's about it. Even now she's still +11 on block which is kinda funny.

 

[qspec]

So you agree that it still is quite hard

I never disagreed that it was quite hard, nor do I mean to imply that. Plinking only marginally makes 1 frame links easier, and it isn't going to change whether or not a casual can land the combo.

 

[Farpafraf]

Complaining may be justifiable, but what I find worrisome as an active observer of this thread is that no perpetrators have been officially identified. The question is, who is to blame for these normalizations? Ducky? Krayzie Bone? Online players? TYM scrubs masquerading as high level players? Warner Brothers executives? Honey Bee has been complaining without providing any answers to this crucial question.

Thanks Obama.

 

[HoneyBee]

@HoneyBee what I don't get is, how would reducing the + frames on f112~BC by a total of 2 frames make a massive difference if bug cancels stayed the same speed?

Honestly I'm not sure why she needs so much advantage off that string at all, but it seems these two changes were probably meant to work in tandem to produce a bigger gap.

If the second nerf was removed, she still wouldn't have the guaranteed 50/50 off of her f112 string on block which was the whole point of the nerf to begin with. And many players just took the last hit of the f112 string to get out of the 50/50 situation anyways.

 

[BillStickers]

Swarm queen still doesn't need wasp cancel pressure to be good.

 

[The Magician]

Swarm queen still doesn't need wasp cancel pressure to be good.

Yeah let's just remove like 10% damage from her combos and remove her 50/50, a worse tempest Lao.

 

[Farpafraf]

Swarm queen still doesn't need wasp cancel pressure to be good.

I don't think stunt double needs his stunt double to be good.

 

[Rude]

I see a lot of people justifying pre-patch D'Vorah by saying she had a high execution barrier.

That's exactly the same logic Kabal players used to explain why he was "fine" in MK9.

Not saying D'Vorah = Kabal.

But the rationale is the same.

 

[HoneyBee]

I see a lot of people justifying pre-patch D'Vorah by saying she had a high execution barrier.

That's exactly the same logic Kabal players used to explain why he was "fine" in MK9.

Not saying D'Vorah = Kabal.

But the rationale is the same.

I don't think her execution barrier was what justified her character design. She was just in line with many of the other top tier characters which is what made her fine. She was/is able to compete with other characters while not being so good that she made matches heavily skewed in her favour. Her having a high execution barrier was just something to note, not an excuse for keeping her as she was.

 

[BillStickers]

Yeah let's just remove like 10% damage from her combos and remove her 50/50, a worse tempest Lao.

I don't think stunt double needs his stunt double to be good.

Let's ignore the meterless low launcher and the meterless projectile that leads to full combo on hit.

 

[qspec]

Let's ignore the meterless low launcher and the meterless projectile that leads to full combo on hit.

From anywhere on screen.

 

[Take$$$]

Let's ignore the meterless low launcher and the meterless projectile that leads to full combo on hit.

That low meterless launcher is full combo punishable on reaction or read since its like a 50 frame startup. So dangerous to just throw it out against people that know they can press buttons, and it's even dangerous to use as an ender on a blocked string, but for some reason some people still block it Instead of punishing or moving.

 

[BillStickers]

That low meterless launcher is full combo punishable on reaction or read since its like a 50 frame startup. So dangerous to just throw it out against people that know they can press buttons, and it's even dangerous to use as an ender on a blocked string, but for some reason some people still block it Instead of punishing or moving.

It is sooooo not my problem if you don't know how to play D'vorah correctly. I'm clearly comparing the benefits of Swarm Queen over her other variations. Her puddle has combo potential in the other variations but not anywhere near the lift you get with swarm queen. If anything, brood mother should get the guaranteed cancel mix ups and swarm queen should remain the high damage variation.