Chernyy Volk
Wolf lord, footsie bully, chronic corner abuser.
If anyone can really find it in themselves to disagree we're just going to have to agree to disagree because I think you're living on the moon tbh lol
???? I mean I'm all about that sort of thing, but why when I just made a video on the subject?If I did a live twitch stream after work tonight do you have a PS4 and would you like to go on live with me and discuss this in practice mode on a live setting?
Ah man, maybe another time? I'm occupied today unfortunately.Because if we did it live we could actually execute the situations and discuss options for Scorpion and his opponents. I want to do some kind of episodic stream. You clearly care a tremendous amount about this, and we are similarly controversial TYM members I think it might be a cool launch. What do you think?
Aight, just beam me up when it works out.Ah man, maybe another time? I'm occupied today unfortunately.
I mean this is mostly for youtube I'm just sharing it here for the analytics tbh lolBruh.. I could have sworn you already made this thread
The irony in this statementIf anyone can really find it in themselves to disagree we're just going to have to agree to disagree because I think you're living on the moon tbh lol
Bingo. He had a highly abusable kit that annoyed the fuck outta people before they were able to acclimate to the game. I really don't think he sucks in the grand scheme of things, but he's not the S tier character he was considered in the first couple months.Scorpion was definitly nerfed before we really had a chance to figure out the game & how strong he was. He's just not super threatening at this point without really having lost to much that was relevant at a high level.
That MU isn’t even bad anymore. He can’t lock her down because TP is a high.Have you ever fought Jade with scorpion ?
This is facts. it's a MASSIVE uphill battle.That MU isn’t even bad anymore. He can’t lock her down because TP is a high.
At the highest level one could argue that she wins that MU.
I don't play him anymore. I've been playing Nightwolf and Shang almost exclusively for almost the last month.Honest question. If you think Scorpion sucks so bad, why do you keep flagelating yourself by playing him?
The top tiers all have AT LEAST 2 or 3 out of those like 6 things I mentioned. Cetrion has movement but I suppose I thing I neglected to mention is fuck neutral factor which she has. You're never safe from her anywhere.Alright, I got home, I took notes, and I'm going to undulge ya with a fair shake.
BALANCE: To a lot of people balance refers to how close characters are to each other, and which are vital. Under those conditions, this is the best balanced Mortal Kombat game to date (I didn't play the Injustice Games).
However, you specifically talk about balance at the highest levels. Your argument, as I understand it, is that the game is not balanced at the highest levels of play. To that end I agree with you. Watching every streamed tournament game there is a lot of diversity at the pool stage. However, once pool are concluded it's the same few characters, S-Tiers like: Geras, Jacqui, Sonya, Erron. Then a few more that are character specialized; Dragon's-Cetrion, Tweedy's-Baraka, Foxy's-Kung Lao, Samiij's Kitana. Then you might see a meta-buster like Johnny Cage most recently. There is clearly 3-5 characters that are better than everybody else and that's not idea, but it's not terrible because there are a lot of characters that can be brought up to compete with those with some character specialization-more than any MK game before, and more than most fighting games, and that's a great accomplishment for NRS.
POPULAR V. GOOD: Scorpion is the most popular character in Mortal Kombat. The "GET OVER HERE!" with the spear move is ICONIC. Additionally he is the favorite character of Ed Boon, and he is the character used in basic tutorials. Scorpion is undoubtedly very popular, but is he good? Someone may want to fact check me here, but I believe that Scorpion usually resides in the mid tier, sometimes high-mid, sometimes low-mid, and sometimes smack in the middle. I don't think he has every been elite, but I also don't think he has ever sucked as you claim. He is a strong, honest, fundamental character that does his job-being an ambassador to the series and teaching simple fundamentals.
TRASH AT THE HIGHEST LEVEL: Well, like I said he certainly isn't dominant, but as you stated he already dumpsters casuals, and newcomers. If he was stronger at higher levels he would probably alienate people away from the game-he would have Geras syndrome where he is very strong and it is also easy to implement that strength. Geras is the worst kind of character and you do not want this for Scorpion, it hasn't happened yet but usually by the end of a game's cycle these type of characters get nerfed into the ground. Alternatively if a character is both very powerful, and very easy and allowed to remain that way, it can kill games.
THE IDEA CHARACTER/THE TRIFECTA: You mention a set of characteristics; Oki-Throws, 9-11frame Mid, meterless launcher which you call the trifecta. Then additionally you include Fast Movement, Easy KBs, and strong anti-air as desirable perks. I think that is a fair argument, and a reasonable way to look at balance-tool kits, and I would be interested to see how often A and S Tier characters have all 3 and some of the others. I would be interested also in characters in those tiers who do not have those things. I main Cetrion, she does not have Oki-Throw KBs, her fastest mid is 14 frames, and she does not have a meterless launcher that I recall (Call me out on this if I'm wrong), but she does have incredible movement, and she is considered S-tier in a lot of lists... but is that Cetrion or is that Dragon? Dragon consistently takes her to Grand Finals, but I've only ever seen one other Cetrion player and it was someone who plays a wide range, not a main (Big D or Kombat I think). Usually when a character is that strong there are more players using that character. Just food for thought.
CONCLUSIONS: I agree that Scorpion is not great at the absolute highest levels of play, but I think that he is fine where he is. I view him as a set of training wheels. He does a lot of things well, he has a gameplan that is easy to understand and implement. He helps new players learn and feel good, but eventually you want to pick a more complex character and ride a big boy bike. He is viable at most levels of play, but at the highest levels, more complex characters SHOULD be more dominant and they are. I also think that you down play his neutral, and his ability to dictate the pace of a match. Scorpion decides what happens and when it happens more than any other character in the game. This is why he doesn't deal damage as easily-he gets an easier and more varied initiation-he is going to hit you more than you hit him. This is why his damage is low. My main Cetrion works similarly-low damage, but also very hard to hit and with multiple opportunities to hit her opponent. Scorpion and Cetrion do not need to be strong in the Trifecta area, because they are insane in other ares, movement for Cetrion, and neutral control for Scorpion.
That's how I feel.
Scorpion has that same effect. I don't think he does quite as well as she does, but he does have it.The top tiers all have AT LEAST 2 or 3 out of those like 6 things I mentioned. Cetrion has movement but I suppose I thing I neglected to mention is fuck neutral factor which she has. You're never safe from her anywhere.
No he doesn't. Teleport is unusable as a neutral tool at the highest level as long as the player doesn't try to zone. Cetrion applies damage AND pressure to you constantly.Scorpion has that same effect. I don't think he does quite as well as she does, but he does have it.
Honestly I just switch to Jaded for that MU & out footsie Scorpion & walk him down because Jade's back walk speed is amazing & Scorpion's wavedash isn't great.This is facts. it's a MASSIVE uphill battle.