Question What characters do you believe have a variation with no bad match ups?

[GAV]

Balanced Kenshi

 

[Zoidberg747]

Uh doesn't ninjutsu give Mileena Piercing some fits and potentially one of her losing matchups? Ninjutsu can clearly out footsie Mileena which correct me if I'm wrong is suppose to be one of her main strengths. You can't zone Scorpion out as he can teleport on reaction 9 timea out of ten and he has an option againot mpst of her tools. It'd prob be a 5.5-4.5 matchup

If I throw a sai I can bait the teleport and punish.

I'd say the match is pretty even. The player with the best footsies/reads will win.

 

[x TeeJay o]

A

Demolition maybe?

But but but Alien mops the whole cast 8-2 free

 

[Youphemism]

My bad, yes that is what i meant. What characters have one variation that doesn't get 6/4'd by anyone *

I'll update the title to reflect this then to avoid confusion.

 

[Tom Brady]

The numbers indicate advantage in a matchup. If one has an advantage over another, it is a 6... if it is fairly even it is 5. The traditional scale is:


0 Impossible to Win

1 Close to unwinable

2 Extreme Disadvantage

3 Large disadvantage

4 Some disadvantage

5 Relatively Even

6 Some advantage

7 Large advantage

8 Extreme advantage

9 Close to unlosable

10 Definite win


5.5 would indicate a minute / insignificant win. The advantage is negligible and pretty much non-existent. By not committing to whole numbers, you are leaving it open to debate and are not committing to a win or loss. Does one of them have some advantage? Well that is a 6. Is it negligible/debatable? It is 5. Using 0.5 indicates a lack of commitment to a winning matchup and just muddies the waters.

3-7 and 2-8 are right about the same tbh. There is no such thing as 10-0 in current fighters because 10-0 means 100-0 which means 1000-0 and so on.. Since you cannot say for sure that it is IMPOSSIBLE to win ONE game, 1-9 is the worst score you can give. 1-9 is basically a 10-0 but because there is no such thing, we use 1-9. With 1-9 meaning pretty much unwinnable, 2-8 is almost unwinnable, 3-7 is an EXTREME disadvantage.

People also miss what these numbers mean. A 3-7 does NOT mean that if played at the highest level that you should win 3 out of the 10 games played. No, it means you have a 30% chance to win and the opponent a 70% chance. You could play a 3-7 just right and the score be 1-9. It doesn't make the mu a 1-9, it just means that you only had a 30% chance of winning those games that you lost.

 

[WATCHD0G]

i think in the right hands all of Jax's variations don't have bad matchups.....this is purely from what i have seen

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

Still waiting on the community to figure out (all) Mileenas bad matches.

 

[HuttonMD]

Well because you named characters that all have losing matchups. I understand you have your own opinion and that's fine, i just got annoyed at the fact this came out on the heels of ESL which is eerily ironic.


EDIT:I specifically flipped out about Acidic. I just feel like most ppl honestly just listen to the pros or what everyone else about a character without actually doing their own homework. I used to be the same way . Sorry if the anger was misdirected

I didn't actually post any MU numbers in here so no offense taken on my part I was just commenting on what you said lol.

I just feel tym needs more open discussion on MU and tech and all other in depth conversations instead of all the other bs. But if there's a hidden agenda behind the discussion then you run into problems and it turns into a bitch fest

 

[SaSSolino]

There is no such thing as 5.5 / 4.5 in matchups. If it is advantage it is 6-4, if it is not, it is 5-5. You don't win half a game.

MAKE UP YOUR MIND PEOPLE!!!

5.5 - 4.5 means that the MU isn't entirely even, but the advantage the character gets is really small. don't see a problem with it.

 

[DDutchguy]

5.5 - 4.5 means that the MU isn't entirely even, but the advantage the character gets is really small. don't see a problem with it.

The fact that the advantage is small is, to me, something that's negligible. A small advantage isn't noteworthy enough to be mentioned, hence 5-5 is probably more accurate in that situation.

 

[Wolverine32]

If Shaolin loses to Piercing then all hope is lost. On paper that should be one of her hardest match ups.

Edit: I think Shaolin probably struggles vs Liu Kang and maybe Jax? idk

Edit 2: Jester's post also makes a lot of sense.

I'll agree with Jax. It's tough but I play that MU as "Make it hell to get in so by the time he does get in, the life lead is mine and I just have play patient and don't need to risk anything. Kang isn't awful unless dragons fire is on point with their cancels and even then it could be worse.

 

[SaSSolino]

The fact that the advantage is small is, to me, something that's negligible. A small advantage isn't noteworthy enough to be mentioned, hence 5-5 is probably more accurate in that situation.

I can feel the difference between a 5-5 and a 5.5-4.5 MU, and same goes for a 6-4 one.

I feel piercing mileena, bs shinnok and ronin Takeda have his number though.

I've played the Boneshaper - Cutthroat MU a lot with @Jupe, I don't think that BS wins the MU anymore after the last patch, it's probably even.

I think everybody has atleast 1 bad MU

Who does BS Shinnok lose to?
I'm guessing fast teleport chars?

mostly characters that can punish his projectile or nullify his hell sparks

 

[MsMiharo]

I've played the Boneshaper - Cutthroat MU a lot with @Jupe, I don't think that BS wins the MU anymore after the last patch, it's probably even.

You might be right, I need to flesh it out more, I'm just going by feel heh

 

[gam224]

3-7 and 2-8 are right about the same tbh. There is no such thing as 10-0 in current fighters because 10-0 means 100-0 which means 1000-0 and so on.. Since you cannot say for sure that it is IMPOSSIBLE to win ONE game, 1-9 is the worst score you can give. 1-9 is basically a 10-0 but because there is no such thing, we use 1-9. With 1-9 meaning pretty much unwinnable, 2-8 is almost unwinnable, 3-7 is an EXTREME disadvantage.

People also miss what these numbers mean. A 3-7 does NOT mean that if played at the highest level that you should win 3 out of the 10 games played. No, it means you have a 30% chance to win and the opponent a 70% chance. You could play a 3-7 just right and the score be 1-9. It doesn't make the mu a 1-9, it just means that you only had a 30% chance of winning those games that you lost.

The only 10-0 I have heard of is Vanilla Sagat vs Hugo in SF4. They are practically extinct.

 

[lm Tweakk]

Shaolin might lose to jax? Jax can just frame punish the shaolin drop if he high blocks the last hit , and if the Kung jin player flies over your head , you can 11 them out if the air before he drops ( stand block ) also , jax can break his armor easy as hell , and he has an armor launcher to blow through the ex Chakram ( which you cannot do on reaction ) plus ex gotcha grab to help deal with dung jins j1

 

[Derptile]

Still waiting on the community to figure out (all) Mileenas bad matches.

Aye fam, you just gonna leave us hangin?

 

[ragnar0kz28]

Cutthroat Kano

looses to takeda, cage, dvorah, hqt (BAD)

 

[ienjoywinning]

Imo shaolin loses to impostor shinnok at least 4.5-5.5. Probably about that against piercing mileena as well.

All others are probably no worse than 5-5

Why does he lose to imposter ?

 

[Derptile]

looses to takeda, cage, dvorah, hqt (BAD)

All 5-5, HQT is probably the least difficult out of all the MUs you listed.

 

[TackyHaddock]

Why does he lose to imposter ?

It's close (not completely lopsided in impostor's favor), but I think the combination of hellsparks and teleport related tools are able to effectively counter a good portion of Shaolin's gameplan.

 

[Skylight1]

Piercing loses to Shaolin, Mournful, Crystalline/Aftershock if I'm not mistaken (or it could be that I'm not that experienced in those match-ups.)

 

[ShaolinGunFu]

Correct me if I'm wrong but can't Acidic get outzoned by Fullscreen Zoning?

Yea, its hilarious when someones like "alright, come and get me while I shoot stuff at you" and you just back up and shoot stuff at him instead

 

[EdenianWarrior]

Still waiting on the community to figure out (all) Mileenas bad matches.

Is there a reason you don't use the sadistic ways string? You do the same one, with the other string. I'm wondering out of curiosity.

 

[ragnar0kz28]

All 5-5, HQT is probably the least difficult out of all the MUs you listed.

Takeda both SR and Ronin beat him he has very hard time dealing with hes long normals, swarm queen should beat him(you can ask Honeybeen tho), and I forgot to mention Mileena bends him over pretty bad too, whats all this over hyping with kano? The reallity check will be so bad for some people, also Ferra/Torr could beat him, I dont know tho, lots of mu's havnt been tested yet on an extent, what about GM sub? but to say CT Kano has no 6/4s loosing mu's is not right. Atleast I know 100% shure Assassin Kitana and him go 5/5

 

[Wigy]

Still waiting on the community to figure out (all) Mileenas bad matches.

I thought u said she didnt really have any?

Who do you think gives her issues now? Not having a go i have no idea with mileena just curious