Something that needs to be said

[Death]

<3

 

[UPR_Nova]

Maybe my words should be taken with a grain of salt considering I am on the miserably sad low end of the tournament rankings with MK, but getting my shit ducked with Lao is annoying as ever.

I spar against Seapeople and he is a great player with major knowledge about the game overall. However, when I start pressure I sometimes feel that I simply get countered by a mashed d3 into 12, net for my entire bar of health. On top of that, the attempts and measures you must take as a Lao player to get the opponent to stand are next to nothing in my book. For example, a f2 if used at the incorrect distance makes it hella tough (almost impossible) to follow up with the 24 attempt against characters such as Cyrax. "I'm just mashing d3," says Cyrax, "touch that." You also can't hit confirm a standing 2 into EX hat to catch the people that jump out of the follow up after a landed f2. So, just stand there and wait? There goes pressure. Additionally, a patient player will not get hit 99% of the time by mixing up 21 with 21212 because it's pretty easy to see that the 21 string ended and poke. Yeah, you get that chip and meter, but use it against Cyrax and get blown up for your entire bar. That mixup is also useless in the corner; full combo punish all the time if blocked correctly. If the opponent is not looking to mash d3 after every mixup attempt, your best bets for follow up pressure are risky as ever. 2 is ducked as well as 1, and if you want to poke you must minimize the counter poking with say something along the lines of a d3 ~ low hat. Wtf kinda stuff is that? I've yet to find a legitimate, tourney worthy, somewhat safe answer to the d3 mash. Maybe d3 over and over lmao (not seriously but it gets to feel that way sometimes) or spin check which I say damn all that. Oh, let's not forget the 24 overhead and 24 low hat mixup...whatever.

Yeah the opponent must respect the spin but hell, what reputable, decent, non-yolo ass Lao is gonna spin check when the series is tied 2-2 in tourney play? Maybe I just need to grow some bigger balls I guess. In my opinion, the options this character has to stand up the opponent and to force them to stop mashing d3 is of the equivalent of uppercutting Lao on teleport...he's not gonna stop when he should be punished for 30% plus every time.

This is why Cyrax (especially), Kabal, and Kenshi (somewhat...maybe more Sonya) just really put me on tilt. In my opinion, Kung Lao is on the same page as Raiden; hella good on paper, but takes a lot of skill to succeed in tourney play. A KL in my eyes in top 8 is an accomplishment. Am I saying he is a bad character....HELLLLLLLLLLS NO, however, getting ducked and blown up for my entire life bar or reset from safe armor is pretty annoying. I have to 21 then block....that's successful pressure, smh. Maybe I sound like a fanboy or someone of less knowledge by letting these words be typed but Perfect Legend is correct from my experience. As I stated before, my experience probably means nothing and my words should be taken with a grain of salt, but I will forever stand by this breakdown of Lao. I feel it's just how it is. Like it or not, it's toughER (emphasis on the "ER") than people think to get that W.

So, let the blow up of my post commence and theory fighting begin. I can at last say that I started it.

 

[FrothyOmen]

Fixed it.









Boom.

Play him better than us, then.

 

[Treadmill]

Play him better than us, then.

Jokes are joking. I r the joking brah.

Treadmill vs. Frothy smoke mirror ft 5

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

Kung Lao has all the same problems as night wolf when he is up close trying to get damage but all he has is spin to hit you for trying to do low pokes.

I dont comprehend what just happened

 

[THTB]

KL's offense isn't as strong, but his mobility, as overrated as it is, is still really strong and tends to be a serious deterrent to a lot of spacing in MK9. You also have to remember, his divekick has the best hitbox out of any divekick in the game...and when I say the best, I mean it is impossible to even hit the character out of it without using something that air crushes, has some seriously disjointed hitboxes, is a projectile, or has armor. In the projectile case, he'll just outspeed you often enough, same with the disjointed hitbox, unless you do it early. Air crushes are pretty much just the AA throws, and only Cyrax's is really that reliable at hitting him out of it. Teleport also forces hesitation on AAs.

He's exceedingly reliant on his mobility for his pressure, which is really punishable if you do the wrong thing. 21, 1121, etc, whiff on the first hit on a crouching opponent, which is a big problem, considering how slow his moves that hit crouching opponents are, bar spin. Of course, you're not always going to predict what he does when he jumps, which is where most of his damage will come from, but eventually he's going to do something that ends his pressure if he doesn't spin or will be read properly.

His ground-based pressure is truthfully mediocre, but his saving grace is the best 6f attack in the game being backed by a few 0-on-block scenarios he can obtain if he forces you to stand. I think he's top 10, but he's playing much more risky than a lot of the other top 10 characters actually do. The problem is that waiting for him to fuck up 100% of the time, realistically, doesn't work as it does on paper. It balances out, but I definitely see his problems that people tend to ignore or undermine.

 

[STB Sgt Reed]

I dont comprehend what just happened

Didn't you know... NW has better options than spin up close!

 

[PND_Ketchup]

Dude you use Sektor so your d3 is ass. However you can crouch all of his teleports, jumps in and best combo starters. If you block spin that is an easy 40% for sektor and Kung Lao cant easily get around his zoning either without risking getting punished himself.

Is manueverability is so good. What do you do when you get in vs a char who just mashes d3 and mixes that up with random blocking? Only options are spin or throw. Don't jump cause your jump in will whiff and you get whiff punished. Please elaborate since he is so good

It's hard for Sektor to hit Kung lao too. I have to take the gamble if I want to hit you with the godlike 6 frame jab everyone preaches about.

Kung lao isn't lacking because you can punish his spin, you don't need to spin loads to hurt Sektor.

 

[Treadmill]

KL's offense isn't as strong, but his mobility, as overrated as it is, is still really strong and tends to be a serious deterrent to a lot of spacing in MK9. You also have to remember, his divekick has the best hitbox out of any divekick in the game...and when I say the best, I mean it is impossible to even hit the character out of it without using something that air crushes, has some seriously disjointed hitboxes, is a projectile, or has armor. In the projectile case, he'll just outspeed you often enough, same with the disjointed hitbox, unless you do it early. Air crushes are pretty much just the AA throws, and only Cyrax's is really that reliable at hitting him out of it. Teleport also forces hesitation on AAs.

He's exceedingly reliant on his mobility for his pressure, which is really punishable if you do the wrong thing. 21, 1121, etc, whiff on the first hit on a crouching opponent, which is a big problem, considering how slow his moves that hit crouching opponents are, bar spin. Of course, you're not always going to predict what he does when he jumps, which is where most of his damage will come from, but eventually he's going to do something that ends his pressure if he doesn't spin or will be read properly.

His ground-based pressure is truthfully mediocre, but his saving grace is the best 6f attack in the game being backed by a few 0-on-block scenarios he can obtain if he forces you to stand. I think he's top 10, but he's playing much more risky than a lot of the other top 10 characters actually do. The problem is that waiting for him to fuck up 100% of the time, realistically, doesn't work as it does on paper. It balances out, but I definitely see his problems that people tend to ignore or undermine.

You can't argue with thtb, I tried a few times ans I lost.

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

Didn't you know... NW has better options than spin up close!

I played PL at MLG Raleigh and My NW did ok vs his Lao...In fact I've consistently downplayed Lao with the best of them. But this is just dumb.

 

[PND i2 Gaug3]

Perfect Legend all I see here is your bitching about LITTLE things that KL has to deal with.

Lets compare him to say Jax who has similar problems.

This is where you went wrong

Jax is weak to crouch

Is an understatement

with unblockable ground pound, ground pound cancels, energy wave which recovers fast.

That Unblock-able GP that we jax players love ohhh so much has this tiny fault you see it can be escaped by any move that lifts one leg up off the floor, KL can throw any hat he wants and he will be safe, and if you don't have one of those types of moves that lift a leg up you can just d4 and at the same time duck all projectiles

for players mashing crouching normals he can do du4 to jump over it and hit them.His f4 will also hit crouching normals and people crouching if they aren't blocking and at least with meter he can do f4 enhanced du4 overhead.

those pesky d3 characters do get eaten by du4 but them d1 guys can get a lil anti air combo from that (unless you want to use a bar to "make it safe")

lets make this clear everyone that has a low hitbox crouch blocks against jax

He also has f3 and b1 which are fast enough to use as pokes because most people will be crouching looking out for f4 to try to punish thus opening that up and his grab.

That b1 move you mentioned doesnt hit crouch block sooooo ahm yea f3 20+frames on start-up its ok but against heavy rush down NO

in the corner he has a 100% combo with 3 bars of meter but most people will breaker and keep themselves in the corner allowing him to continue pressuring them until they die.

Only thing he has going for him

f4 also cant be mashed under with d3's while its on the screen and its 8 frames

What low do you know that can be mashed under?

jax also has his air gotcha grab to use as an anti air that will pretty much beat everything in the air cause of his invincibility.

NO Bird lao

Jax also can use dash punch for mobility to get around zoning characters.

NO

and has good range so opponents wont be able to just move around freely in footsie range cause of f4's range

NO... f4 range is the same range as his 1 and that is about a single person in front of him

I WISH KUNG LAO had something AT LEAST like that. Hell I would take Jax's f4 problem over kung lao's problems. Cause 2 and 1 begin high you can just crouch and hit d3 and not worry about getting hit unless he does a spin which has NO RANGE WHAT SO EVER.

so this KL character that has so much problems you would take jax's f4 8 frame low that's -1 on hit, the full string leaves you open to full combo punishment against low hitboxes ( ohh yea you can use a bar of meter to make it safe for 4% chip), and, the question now stands how much bars of meter are you going to use to "make it safe" until you realise that its a bad idea and the meter can be used more efficiently.

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[Mt. Mutombo]

Someone at tym downplaying his main?

 

[Flagg]

What about Kano?

 

[GGA HAN]

Maybe my words should be taken with a grain of salt considering I am on the miserably sad low end of the tournament rankings with MK, but getting my shit ducked with Lao is annoying as ever.

I spar against Seapeople and he is a great player with major knowledge about the game overall. However, when I start pressure I sometimes feel that I simply get countered by a mashed d3 into 12, net for my entire bar of health. On top of that, the attempts and measures you must take as a Lao player to get the opponent to stand are next to nothing in my book. For example, a f2 if used at the incorrect distance makes it hella tough (almost impossible) to follow up with the 24 attempt against characters such as Cyrax. "I'm just mashing d3," says Cyrax, "touch that." You also can't hit confirm a standing 2 into EX hat to catch the people that jump out of the follow up after a landed f2. So, just stand there and wait? There goes pressure. Additionally, a patient player will not get hit 99% of the time by mixing up 21 with 21212 because it's pretty easy to see that the 21 string ended and poke. Yeah, you get that chip and meter, but use it against Cyrax and get blown up for your entire bar. That mixup is also useless in the corner; full combo punish all the time if blocked correctly. If the opponent is not looking to mash d3 after every mixup attempt, your best bets for follow up pressure are risky as ever. 2 is ducked as well as 1, and if you want to poke you must minimize the counter poking with say something along the lines of a d3 ~ low hat. Wtf kinda stuff is that? I've yet to find a legitimate, tourney worthy, somewhat safe answer to the d3 mash. Maybe d3 over and over lmao (not seriously but it gets to feel that way sometimes) or spin check which I say damn all that. Oh, let's not forget the 24 overhead and 24 low hat mixup...whatever.

Yeah the opponent must respect the spin but hell, what reputable, decent, non-yolo ass Lao is gonna spin check when the series is tied 2-2 in tourney play? Maybe I just need to grow some bigger balls I guess. In my opinion, the options this character has to stand up the opponent and to force them to stop mashing d3 is of the equivalent of uppercutting Lao on teleport...he's not gonna stop when he should be punished for 30% plus every time.

This is why Cyrax (especially), Kabal, and Kenshi (somewhat...maybe more Sonya) just really put me on tilt. In my opinion, Kung Lao is on the same page as Raiden; hella good on paper, but takes a lot of skill to succeed in tourney play. A KL in my eyes in top 8 is an accomplishment. Am I saying he is a bad character....HELLLLLLLLLLS NO, however, getting ducked and blown up for my entire life bar or reset from safe armor is pretty annoying. I have to 21 then block....that's successful pressure, smh. Maybe I sound like a fanboy or someone of less knowledge by letting these words be typed but Perfect Legend is correct from my experience. As I stated before, my experience probably means nothing and my words should be taken with a grain of salt, but I will forever stand by this breakdown of Lao. I feel it's just how it is. Like it or not, it's toughER (emphasis on the "ER") than people think to get that W.

So, let the blow up of my post commence and theory fighting begin. I can at last say that I started it.

Just so you know, cyrax gets nothing from hitting you with d3. He's only +1 on hit, you can blow him up if he starts trying to pressure you with his only hit-confimable strings (11, 12, 21) before they even come out with your 21. Maybe you're giving Cyrax too much respect after that d3 hits, it seems.

 

[SLy]

Im glad you laid all of that Bird Lao talk to rest. People that actually know how to play the game wouldn't see a "Bird Lao" as a threat..
He was getting a lot of praise at one point.. I never understood it.

 

[PND i2 Gaug3]

Just so you know, cyrax gets nothing from hitting you with d3. He's only +1 on hit, you can blow him up if he starts trying to pressure you with his only hit-confimable strings (11, 12, 21) before they even come out with your 21. Maybe you're giving Cyrax too much respect after that d3 hits, it seems.

Nooooo han it destroys kls rush down cause it stops you from pressing the next button or mid button press

 

[THTB]

Perfect Legend all I see here is your bitching about LITTLE things that KL has to deal with.

I'm not disagreeing with you on Jax having more problems to deal with...in fact I pretty much agree.

But KL's problems definitely aren't minor, considering where these problems come into play. Bird Lao is good, no denying, but it does not entirely solve all of his problems at all. It gives him stronger air control and an appreciated safe option, but alone it's not going to save him. He's gotta do other shit, which, again, leaves him playing risky.

 

[PND i2 Gaug3]

I'm not disagreeing with you on Jax having more problems to deal with...in fact I pretty much agree.

But KL's problems definitely aren't minor, considering where these problems come into play. Bird Lao is good, no denying, but it does not entirely solve all of his problems at all. It gives him stronger air control and an appreciated safe option, but alone it's not going to save him. He's gotta do other shit, which, again, leaves him playing risky.

Come give me his non bird options (against a ducking char that is what pl is bitching about right?) and ill see how risky it is (and just to be fair no en tele gimicks).

This message is brought to you by The Hateocracy

 

[BigMilk]

Perfect Legend main Raiden bro!!! @a foxy grandpa this is off top[ic but how do you deal with Kitty using your Lao?

 

[GGA Jeremiah]

I have always thought Kung Lao was top 5 in the game... until recently. The top 5 in MK9 are all broken or overpowered like crazy, unfortunately Kung Lao is fair.

 

[THTB]

Come give me his non bird options (against a ducking char that is what pl is bitching about right?) and ill see how risky it is (and just to be fair no en tele gimicks).

This message is brought to you by The Hateocracy

f2 (good hitbox, not incredibly fast, range-safe, overhead, unfortunately only +1 on hit)
b33 (low, 11f, -8 on block, +8 on hit, not very hitconfirmable though)
spin (6f launcher, best hitbox, unsafe)

They aren't terrible options, but one doesn't really lead to anything spectacular, is slow and isn't the best on block either, one is decent but only really does something on hit, and the last thing is a total hail mary. But it's not amazing stuff at all, considering what other characters have. When he's not able to land his jabs, his block mixups are bland. You can wait these options out.

 

[THTB]

Im glad you laid all of that Bird Lao talk to rest. People that actually know how to play the game wouldn't see a "Bird Lao" as a threat..
He was getting a lot of praise at one point.. I never understood it.

It's a stupid tactic, regardless. It cements a big problem I've had with KL from the start...there is no way to deal with him jumping without being a total sitting duck 95% of the time. It works. I've seen it from the start, 2 years ago. It just doesn't totally turn him into a busted character, though.

 

[UPR_Nova]

Just so you know, cyrax gets nothing from hitting you with d3. He's only +1 on hit, you can blow him up if he starts trying to pressure you with his only hit-confimable strings (11, 12, 21) before they even come out with your 21. Maybe you're giving Cyrax too much respect after that d3 hits, it seems.

Cool. I counter by saying this (any and all correction here is appreciated by the way):

A landed d3 grants Rax the +1, therefore, Lao would have a 1 frame window to interrupt a follow up standing 1 by Rax because the Lao standing 2 is 7 frames. If I am incorrect I will be highly upset because that means I should be punishing easier than it seems at the moment. As of right now, I FEEL like it is a 1 frame window to interrupt with 21. The spin interruption is not as difficult if I READ the follow up pressure but reacting to the 1 with my 2 (at least for me) is not happening. Of course, practice makes perfect and in my opinion anything of the "1 frame execution" variety is risky, however, I do not mean that it shouldn't be attempted, just approached more cautiously.

Maybe it is because he is still in a d3 animation when I attempt the 21, therefore, making my 21 attempt too fast? I don't see how that would be possible as the following 1 in the 21 string should hit him anyway, but just grasping for answers at the moment.

 

[PND i2 Gaug3]

THTB

f2 (good hitbox, not incredibly fast, range-safe, overhead, unfortunately only +1 on hit)

Surely you've seen the range on this and how much times must you get hit before you stand block?....I am very fucking stubborn I have played games where A F0xy Grampa has hit me 2-3 in a row with just that because i refuse to stand block but eventually you do.

b33 (low, 11f, -8 on block, +8 on hit, not very hitconfirmable though)

No one likes this string its just a black sheep in his arsenal

spin (6f launcher, best hitbox, unsafe)

To tell the truth I dont remember the last time someone just spun raw without hit-confirming it, catching pokes yea that all good and dandy but against people like me that try my hardest to not poke out of pressure.

They aren't terrible options, but one doesn't really lead to anything spectacular, is slow and isn't the best on block either, one is decent but only really does something on hit, and the last thing is a total hail mary. But it's not amazing stuff at all, considering what other characters have. When he's not able to land his jabs, his block mixups are bland. You can wait these options out.

These block mixups

1). tru you can wait these options out give him all the meter he wants.
2). Uppercut the shit out of him for 12% (when baited he takes 40+)
3). d3 with characters that can do that (if you react fast enough, this means you will have to do your d3 when he is doing his first attack of the string cause the second attacks hit crouch and might I say they all fast.

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[Seapeople]

Maybe my words should be taken with a grain of salt considering I am on the miserably sad low end of the tournament rankings with MK, but getting my shit ducked with Lao is annoying as ever.

I spar against Seapeople and he is a great player with major knowledge about the game overall. However, when I start pressure I sometimes feel that I simply get countered by a mashed d3 into 12, net for my entire bar of health. On top of that, the attempts and measures you must take as a Lao player to get the opponent to stand are next to nothing in my book. For example, a f2 if used at the incorrect distance makes it hella tough (almost impossible) to follow up with the 24 attempt against characters such as Cyrax. "I'm just mashing d3," says Cyrax, "touch that." You also can't hit confirm a standing 2 into EX hat to catch the people that jump out of the follow up after a landed f2. So, just stand there and wait? There goes pressure. Additionally, a patient player will not get hit 99% of the time by mixing up 21 with 21212 because it's pretty easy to see that the 21 string ended and poke. Yeah, you get that chip and meter, but use it against Cyrax and get blown up for your entire bar. That mixup is also useless in the corner; full combo punish all the time if blocked correctly. If the opponent is not looking to mash d3 after every mixup attempt, your best bets for follow up pressure are risky as ever. 2 is ducked as well as 1, and if you want to poke you must minimize the counter poking with say something along the lines of a d3 ~ low hat. Wtf kinda stuff is that? I've yet to find a legitimate, tourney worthy, somewhat safe answer to the d3 mash. Maybe d3 over and over lmao (not seriously but it gets to feel that way sometimes) or spin check which I say damn all that. Oh, let's not forget the 24 overhead and 24 low hat mixup...whatever.

Like Han said d3 doesn't really give me free pressure. You usually blow me up when I try to come in afterward lol. It's decent since it at least halts Lao's pressure, but I think d4 is a bigger problem.

I agree for the most part though. I'm not sure if the 21/21212 mix up can be avoided on reaction but maybe. Either way it's pretty risky against a character who takes all your life when you finish the string.