Strategy Sindel ~ General Strategies/INFO/Questions

[Delriach]

I'm just trying to point out that 44 doesn't cause any block stun. Her foe can d1 with her. It seems like it neutral on block if you ask me so it's good but not game breaking frame trap stuff.



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According to XXZ it is 0 on block. She can get stuffed out of a follow up unless it's a d1 but I'm not sure what would happen if the opponent did a d1 at the same time. Do they win? Whenever I tried to do a poke I typically get beat.

 

[DanCock]

According to XXZ it is 0 on block. She can get stuffed out of a follow up unless it's a d1 but I'm not sure what would happen if the opponent did a d1 at the same time. Do they win? Whenever I tried to do a poke I typically get beat.

Yea same here. That's why I stick with the air fireball push back. So it's 0 on block so that is what I thought wonder who would win a d1 follow up.


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[EndofGameBoss]

I follow up 44 with d1 all the time. I'm rarely beat with it because the people I have played try to do some amazing combo after the 44. I would still like to see some matches of you guys using her.

PROUD MOMENT OF THE DAY:

Earlier I had a mirror match again, and the other Sindel player was heavily relying on her projectile while I kept trying to get in haha. It was close, but I lost. I later seen him get murdered twice by some dude...I come in and destroy the guy. I thought it was awesome because the guy probably thought he was better with her than me, but I quickly proved my point....YES I AM REALLY COMPETITIVE AGAINST OTHER SINDEL PLAYERS. I plan on attending bigger tournaments soon to rep my Sindel.

 

[Husteen]

i think i'm going to start using D1 after a blocked 44 more often, even D1>step up for players who try to attack.. i keep stuffing the AI's fast attacks with it. still, it's not the answer to everything and it's best to mix it up.

p.s. 2, 1, scream is so fun to use!

 

[CongoFury]

p.s. 2, 1, scream is so fun to use!

it is! it gets ppl attention if there not paying attention. lol

 

[Husteen]

i have a question for everyone. when you're fighting shao kahn with sindel and you block his upward shoulder charge while he's close to you, which combo do you punish it with?
i always use 11B2fireball but the full combo won't connect.

EDIT: so far i've come up with a 1>Scream combo. anything else?

 

[Zerosoulreaver]

I don't block his up shoulder charges, I jump back from them or back dash. I punish him with multiple thing, usually 2,1 wheelkick if he's getting annoyingly close but since the patch I will be comboing the fuck outta him. I found he's rather easy to punish with Sindel once you bait out his charges and follow up with combos.
You can even beat his x-ray if your timing is correct. I have done it many times.

Shao Kahn can't even beat her ranged lol. That's why I goat him into spammin spears n hammer.

 

[Konqrr]

LOL @ you guys thinking about how you are going to beat Shao Kahn. I can't remember the last time I booted up the arcade ladder. Training mode and 2-player offline are the only things that exist to me.

 

[EndofGameBoss]

sindel's 44 is very good. hits mid, second fastest normal, has range from a little more than back dash distance, and just so you guys know 44 is 100% safe on block. if your 44 is blocked and you block they can't land an attack, unless it was a low you weren't ready for. it would be gold-like if it would hit players who randomly jump at her. it has to be either 0 or -1 on block. i've stuffed the AI kano's up ball with a blocked 44>D1 twice!
her 44 followups aren't guaranteed like cyrax's resets or quan chi's rune traps but they are options. that's why sindel isn't a gimmicky character.
FYI, i played dancock last night and grabbed him after a blocked 44 twice lol. then he started jumping so i had to do something else. you don't even have to dash. i even landed some of those resets using F1, 2 on him last night and he's been using sindel as long as we have. it's not that he's completely clueless as to what's going on. i don't think it's good for sindel to be a one trick pony, especially with something she uses as often as 44. i know you think 44 is unsafe on block because she remains airborne after the second knee but that's not true.
44 is just another way she can take her opponent's options away and punishing their mistakes.
i'm not sure who you're fighting but if a player cannot stay on the ground to save their life (jumper) then you have other options to take care of that as well. sometimes i do a LC to go for a grab that i haven't done in that match so far and they immediately jump. they were holding diagonal up during my combo instead of blocking like everyone else does. mashers totally ruined ssfiv for me but there's not much they can do in this game.

back to changes. i'm loving her B3 F2 yell punisher that racks up more damage than my previous one. her step up is no longer stuffed by down pokes or sweeps on her wakeup. but i think they forgot to change her scream assist :s
just in case anyone's wondering, that scream trap on mileena video i posted no longer works with sindel's scream buffs. the yell is too slow and the scream is too fast. shame =/

I have rarely used b3f2. It seems most of my opponents have wised up about it being her most damaging set up. B12 is used more often for me. LOL...it's kind of sad 44 is her best move in my opinion. When they start wising up to my 44 tactics I bring out the projectile to follow up for a little more distance or a d1 poke. 111 and 311 are really good normals to use. I believe they both are safe 3 hit strings.

 

[EndofGameBoss]

i have a question for everyone. when you're fighting shao kahn with sindel and you block his upward shoulder charge while he's close to you, which combo do you punish it with?
i always use 11B2fireball but the full combo won't connect.

EDIT: so far i've come up with a 1>Scream combo. anything else?

I frequently play ladder on expert just to get warm with combos and such before I play people. It actually helps improve your mental game. The AI is so ridiculous. They know your input command and completely obliterate your moves. You can't even jump most of the time! It's also how I know who is safe to zone against or not. If the AI has problems getting in... well then I don't see the average player reaching me. Shao Khan is a asshole. I have to stay away from him on expert or I'm dead really fast. His hammer is annoying because if 1 hits me I'm screwed. He'll throw 2 more at me and it cost the majority of my life.

 

[DanCock]

oh my, there are offline modes?? OMG shao kahn is in the game :O i want to be one of his slaves

i never even did that 300 thing

 

[Delriach]

I frequently play ladder on expert just to get warm with combos and such before I play people. It actually helps improve your mental game. The AI is so ridiculous. They know your input command and completely obliterate your moves. You can't even jump most of the time! It's also how I know who is safe to zone against or not. If the AI has problems getting in... well then I don't see the average player reaching me. Shao Khan is a asshole. I have to stay away from him on expert or I'm dead really fast. His hammer is annoying because if 1 hits me I'm screwed. He'll throw 2 more at me and it cost the majority of my life.

Human players can adapt to zoning. There's a whole mind set that goes into everything someone does. The AI, although stupidly cheap, does not know how a player's mind works. Whether or not you can do something to an AI has no real bearing on what an actual opponent is capable of, especially when it comes to zoning. The AI isn't clever. They won't use tricks to bait you to do things. They won't change up their timing just to trick you. They are just programmed to react immediately as you do something. And a lot of the time they will simply do the wrong things and take a fireball to the face.

Playing ladder MIGHT be a good way to test your own reaction times but I can't see it being more helpful than that. But if it works for you I guess we can't really say crap about it. I think even playing online is a better way to get a read on what's possible to a certain extent. Some people get completely destroyed by zoning to the point where it's laughable online. I've had the same exact thing happen to me offline at tournaments (especially at Fighter x Shooter). I never really thought that was possible, lol. However, some opponents are so smart to zoning that you'll have a very hard time getting it to work. There is no input delay offline too, so tactics are a lot easier to read since you can actually react to them accordingly. Or things might happen so fast in comparison to what you're used to and you'll get blown up before you know it.

 

[EndofGameBoss]

Human players can adapt to zoning. There's a whole mind set that goes into everything someone does. The AI, although stupidly cheap, does not know how a player's mind works. Whether or not you can do something to an AI has no real bearing on what an actual opponent is capable of, especially when it comes to zoning. The AI isn't clever. They won't use tricks to bait you to do things. They won't change up their timing just to trick you. They are just programmed to react immediately as you do something. And a lot of the time they will simply do the wrong things and take a fireball to the face.

Playing ladder MIGHT be a good way to test your own reaction times but I can't see it being more helpful than that. But if it works for you I guess we can't really say crap about it. I think even playing online is a better way to get a read on what's possible to a certain extent. Some people get completely destroyed by zoning to the point where it's laughable online. I've had the same exact thing happen to me offline at tournaments (especially at Fighter x Shooter). I never really thought that was possible, lol. However, some opponents are so smart to zoning that you'll have a very hard time getting it to work. There is no input delay offline too, so tactics are a lot easier to read since you can actually react to them accordingly. Or things might happen so fast in comparison to what you're used to and you'll get blown up before you know it.

Playing ladder has definitely improved my playing. Reaction/defense for sure, but there has to be something more because my game has risen since I've began playing ladder religiously. I'm not huge for playing online, but I don't have many options around here. I always keep it very simple and shorten Sindels combos when I play online. I'm heading out to the Game Galaxy Arcade in Nashville soon to play with better players offline. Playing the same people offline over and over really isn't improving my game. If I go, I guarantee I win.

 

[Konqrr]

Playing ladder has definitely improved my playing. Reaction/defense for sure, but there has to be something more because my game has risen since I've began playing ladder religiously. I'm not huge for playing online, but I don't have many options around here. I always keep it very simple and shorten Sindels combos when I play online. I'm heading out to the Game Galaxy Arcade in Nashville soon to play with better players offline. Playing the same people offline over and over really isn't improving my game. If I go, I guarantee I win.

You absolutely get better playing vs the CPU because you are basically in practice mode against a moving opponent. The problem is that they do not adapt to you and you develop bad habits. I sometimes turn on the CPU in training mode to work on my punishment reactions against a moving opponent.

 

[Delriach]

You absolutely get better playing vs the CPU because you are basically in practice mode against a moving opponent. The problem is that they do not adapt to you and you develop bad habits. I sometimes turn on the CPU in training mode to work on my punishment reactions against a moving opponent.

Yeah, I agree that the reaction time thing is important. The CPU is just frustrating at times though because it reacts the exact same way each time. I used that strategy to practice my reaction times against Kung Lao's teleport on wakeup. If I do a instant air fireball after an uppercut he will always do a teleport every single time. It's both annoying and useful depending on how you look at it...

 

[DanCock]

and if the 44 gets blocked you can:
44, fireball
44, grab
44, D4, step up or more 44 pressure
44, block - lol
i have a friend who does B2, 4, fireball if he thinks they'll jump and it works for him.
maybe xray will get them, even if they try to jump.

if it landed i would use 44, B1, 2, dash, 3, hair whip. or you can use xray for 40%! with the patch, i'm thinking 44, B1, 2, dash, 1, yell, jip, 2, 1, hair whip =]

cant add this 44 stuff just yet.. im going to re word some stuff. the way you posted it makes it looks like all that stuff is guaranteed. but good mix up info

i guess DanCock is gonna read through our posts and extract the useful sindle info and post it above. here's something worth mentioning:

*# of whiffed specials it takes to fill 1 bar of meter*
fireball ~~~ 27 - same while levitating
low fireball ~27 - same while levitating
step up ~~~17
yell ~~~~~ 17
hair whip~~ 17
levitate~~~ 45!
LIAFB ~~~~17

*# of blocked specials it takes to build bar of meter*
fireball ~~~ 8 - same while levitating
low fireball ~8 - same while levitating
step up ~~~5
yell ~~~~~ 7
hair whip ~~7
LIAFB ~~~~7

looks like whiffing hair whip is your best bet to gain meter because it's fast. one more thing i found while doing this... B1, 2 >xray on a grounded opponent does 27%
but if the opponent's in the air when you use B1, 2>xray, it's 34%! that must be a glitch. is that not the damage it did before they added the scaling?

awesome just added this to first post nice job..

 

[Husteen]

i've been playing ladder more ever since the 1.05 patch because i want to get used to sindel's new combos and i'm trying to understand the new wakeup system and negative edge nerf. i used to use B3, F2, dash, 3, yell and them hold up+right while she was yelling so she would jump when she was done but now she'll use the 2, 1, 2 combo =/ gotta get used to jumping after she yells.
it's always annoyed me that shao kahn's close up-shoulder is unsafe but sindel can't get a decent punish off of it. 1-scream does work but it has to be done really fast!

@dancock: i agree, those 44 options aren't guaranteed. i'll rewrite them later to make them sound more like options.

 

[DanCock]

heres what i added to the first post. im all about keeping things simple and not too wordy and repetitive..


Meter building

*# of whiffed specials it takes to fill 1 bar of meter*
fireball ~~~ 27 - same while levitating
low fireball ~27 - same while levitating
step up ~~~17
yell ~~~~~ 17
hair whip~~ 17
levitate~~~ 45!
LIAFB ~~~~17

*# of blocked specials it takes to build bar of meter*
fireball ~~~ 8 - same while levitating
low fireball ~8 - same while levitating
step up ~~~5
yell ~~~~~ 7
hair whip ~~7
LIAFB ~~~~7


flight cancel (d,d,u, Block)

during a combo sindel can special cancel in to flight cancel allowing her a slight advantage to continue pressure and start her 50/50 mix ups on her foe or attempt a throw. (**see 50/50 mix ups)

44 pressure

sindel and her foe are at neutral when a 4,4 is blocked
mix ups work only when you condition your foe to block a guaranteed 3rd hit after 44 which are

Air fireball
d+1

she can then attempt to start her 50/50 mix ups on her foe or attempt a throw. (**see 50/50 mix ups) after her foe blocks 4,4.

50/50 mix ups
**attacks that hit low and over head**

B+1 = low
2,1 = 2nd hit = low
b+3,f+2 = 2nd hit = over head
low fireball = low
:en low firebal - low and knock down
step up = over head
:en step up = over head and swap sides


How levitation works

1 ~ once you levitate and do nothing else but throw out a fireball sindel will land.
2 ~ if you hold up for a moment --> throw out a fireball she will stay in the air.
3 ~ if you wish to continue to throw fireballs you must hold up for a moment after each fireball to continuously throw out fireballs
4 ~ if you dont hold up for a moment after each fireball she will not always fireball
5 ~ tapping forward twice or back twice sindel will fly dash forward and back.

 

[Husteen]

in the "How levitation works" section, i think it would be easier to say, "if any part of the levitation is canceled with a fireball, i.e. dashing/rising, then sindel will land - which you can use to your advantage."

i guess you can also mention random levitate cancels from full screen to make your opponent unsure if you've committed to a full hover or not.

 

[DanCock]

let me know of anything i need to correct here

comboing into scream

on the ground

2 ~ Scream
b+3,f+2 ~ Scream
b+1,2 ~ scream

in corner
f+3 ~ scream

after a pop up

1 ~ scream
3 ~ scream
3,1 ~ scream

comboing into :en scream

on the ground

1 ~ :en
b+1 ~ :en
b+1,2 ~ :en
2 ~ :en
2,1 ~ :en
3 ~ :en
3,1 ~ :en
b+3, f+2 ~ :en

in corner
f+1,2,4 ~ :en
3,1,1 ~ :en
f+3 ~ :en

after a pop up

1 ~ :en
3 ~ :en
3,1 ~ :en

 

[Husteen]

seems you got everything but i think B+1, 1 should be B+1, 2

 

[Delriach]

Under levitate you should add that sindel can do a two hit combo once she's at maximum height with fireball dash fireball.

Under combos, you should add 44 1 scream. 44 b12 1 scream works too but the timing is very strict. EX scream would be more reliable. Both are possible though.

Also, B11 should be B12.

Edit:

Should add some more info under levitate cancels. It's a good way to trick your opponent into thinking you're going to do something. Whether it's baiting out Nightwolf's reflect or a teleport. It's also good for changing the timing of your zoning. If your opponent thinks you're going to just do a low fireball you can do levitate cancel then low fireball.

Also mention levitate instant air fireballs since that's one of her most important techniques. She'll often have a chance to recover fast enough to avoid a counter projectile from the opponent.

Note: I have never pressed or held up after a levitate. You just have to wait until she's at max height to do one without falling.

 

[DanCock]

Under levitate you should add that sindel can do a two hit combo once she's at maximum height with fireball dash fireball.

Under combos, you should add 44 1 scream. 44 b12 1 scream works too but the timing is very strict. EX scream would be more reliable. Both are possible though.

Also, B11 should be B12.

Edit:

Should add some more info under levitate cancels. It's a good way to trick your opponent into thinking you're going to do something. Whether it's baiting out Nightwolf's reflect or a teleport. It's also good for changing the timing of your zoning. If your opponent thinks you're going to just do a low fireball you can do levitate cancel then low fireball.

Also mention levitate instant air fireballs since that's one of her most important techniques. She'll often have a chance to recover fast enough to avoid a counter projectile from the opponent.

awesome fixed the b+1,2


ill add the two hit combo once she's at maximum height with fireball dash fireball.

in the juggles area, i want to keep that part simple. then when the 1 or 2 sindel mods get appointed they will add a combos section. so it already implies that after a pop up one of the 3 attacks will juggle into scream.

yea we'll add the flight cancel stuff for baiting to the flight cancel area.. this is just a start of all this.

i actually have a area just for instant air fireballs. i wanted one of us either myself or anyone else to make a video.

 

[Husteen]

i was thinking about making a section about zoning characters with a reflect special i.e. kenshi, kratos, nightwolf and maybe even smoke but his parry is a little different. levitate cancels, full levitates, random jumps, and close instant levitate fireballs all play a role in that.

i've read that step up, while being safe against most of the cast, is -7 on block. that explains why i'm often hit if i try to jump away after. we've been discussing a blocked 44>d1, step up. i don't really like standing there and blocking so i was thinking d1>hair whip would be better. her hair seems a lot safer and you can probably jump back fireball after it and it will still annoy the opponent who's getting hit by it when they try to attack.

i think it should also be mentioned that if sindel is ever full screen away from jax, the only choice he has is to get close to her and try to knock her out of the air once she levitates because his projectiles are too low. and the only thing kratos can do is use ex arrows. sub zero can freeze her but she falls faster because she was airborne.

 

[DanCock]

you guys are better at the Strategy stuff so i figure you guys are best to to input all that stuff. ill stick with the simple stuff and add my 2 cents to go along with your stuff..






Delriach ~ how should i word that flight stuff? maybe "flight cancel mind games" ??? write your thoughts and info and how you think it should be worded..

i need to catch up on some tv shows ATM lol..

i was thinking about making a section about zoning characters with a reflect special i.e. kenshi, kratos, nightwolf and maybe even smoke but his parry is a little different. levitate cancels, full levitates, random jumps, and close instant levitate fireballs all play a role in that.

nice, write up something about it sounds good.


some info i had that ill add to the first post some how lol

Fireballs sindel cant low fireball under taking no damage​

Ermac ~ Fireball and :en
Liu Kang ~ Low fireball and :en
Kung Lao ~ both hats
Sindel ~ low fireball and :en, air fireballs and :en
Reptile ~ all force ball variations : X
J. Cage ~ only from full screen low fireball and :en
Jade ~ Boomerang down, :en boomerang However after you low fireball the first Brang if you jump immediately you will not get hit
Nightwolf ~ :en Fireball
Cyrax ~ Net and :en
NOOB ~ blackhole above and :en, shadow charge, shadow slide
Smoke ~ smoke bomb and :en
Sektor ~ up missle (above) and :en
Sonya ~ :en fireball the second fireball will hit sindel dishing out 5% but sindel hits with 8-13%
Stryker ~ only from full screen low grenade toss and :en
Shang Tsung ~ :en fire skull 2nd and 3rd skull will hit dishing out 6% but sindel hits with 8-13%, up skull (above) and :en,ground skull far
Kabal ~ Buzzsaw and :en


fireballs sindel can scream through (work in progress)
Kano ~ Knife

special moves sindel can levitate over
(note only at highest levitation)​

Subzero ~ all except for regular ice ball
Kung Lao ~ Ground hat, Teleport with no attacks
Liu Kang ~ Low fireball
Scorpion ~ all except for Teleport and :en Hell fire
Sindel ~ Low fireball and ground fireball, xray
Ermac ~ fireball
Reptile ~ all specials except for Acid spit
Kitana ~ fake out kick -_-
Johnny Cage ~ Nut punch -_-, xray
jade ~ boomerang, boomerang down, Shadow fkash (ofcourse),Staff Grab +:en version,xray
Mileena ~ Roll
Nightwolf ~ Reflect and :en (ofcourse), Shoulder and :en, Lightning and :en
Cyrax ~ all bomb variations, Teleport
Noob ~ ghost ball, all black hole variations, shadow slide
Smoke ~ Shake and :en, smoke cloud, smoke away and towards and :en, Xray
Sektor ~ up missle behind and front versions
Sonya ~ Energy ring and :en
Jax ~ Energy wave and :en, all ground pound variations, xray
Kano ~ Knife throw, xray
Stryker ~ Baton sweep and :en
Shang Tsung ~ fire skull and :en, all front/behind skulls, xray
Baraka ~ Chop chop and :en, xray
Kabal ~ Tornado spin
Raiden ~ Teleport -_-
Sheeva ~ Fireball and :en, Ground pound and :en, low grab and :en
Quan Chi ~ Both boosts, standard Ground burst variations, trance
Cyborg subzero ~ Ice ball and :en, all Bomb variations, slide and :en, teleport, ice parry and :en

random notes

Kung Lao ~ sindel can use up+4 and not get hit by Kung Laos ground hat avoiding chip damage. this doesnt seem like anything cause sindel could just jump but a good lao will quickly do his teleport throw

Reptile ~ sindels low fireball totally ducks under the green hand avoiding the chip damage and dishing out 8%. (unsure if she can pump out the low fireball in the string that ends with the green hand, i will find out and edit this when i find out.)

Kano ~ kanos standard ground ball from full screen can hit sindel if she does low fireball, so be careful doing low fireball from fullscreen vs him.