General/Other - Alien Should Alien get the Tanya treatment?

[PND_Ketchup]

Nothing has triggered me on TYM as much as this thread

 

[MadeOfMetal]

What are the characters with safe launching armoured moves?

Cryomancer (but that's slow as fuck), Raiden (but it's a high) and Goro (punch walk is probably the best move in the game but Goro needs it). Who else has safe, launching armour?

lol never said safe launching armor, because aliens EX Tail Flip is not safe, but it is an Armored launcher ill give you that.

i said safe OH as in the plethora of Safe lows and oh's this game has in it.

 

[MadeOfMetal]

It's a braindead 50/50 - most characters in the game can't punish Alien's regular flip, so, he'll do that 50/50 over and over again, and the regular flip is an hard knockdown.

its most certaionly not braindead. its a move thats safe on block. he isn't plus after using it, he doesn't get another turn or anything, people throw out this braindead to much. more than half the cast have safe mixups, its absurd to act like this one move is brain dead, in fact its startup is kind of slow, in fact on its own it can be interrupted by counter pokes and many normals.

as you said if she does it over and over again on you, then it shouldn't be hard to guess what she does and you should make him guess since after doing it on you is not plus and in fact it is minus, its your turn, and you can do plenty to stop him.

 

[Pan1cMode]

Crystalline.

It's -13 no?

 

[x TeeJay o]

what you mean by jailing rekkas? you talking as in jailing from strings into rekka's? also tailflips armor should stay, it can have at least one universal armored launcher.

When timed correctly, you cannot backdash, armor, or poke out of delayed rekkas which in turn you are jailing them. Which makes then safe, and the low ender +2

 

[DDutchguy]

It's -13 no?

EX db1d is -5 I believe.

 

[STRYKIE]

Tanya got nerfed because you guys didn't know how to armor out of rekkas, please stop

Actually people did know how to armor out of Tanya's rekkas, it's just that you got fucked for doing it and got armor broken anyway unless the Tanya player was being greedy.

 

[omooba]

No he's right. With correct delayed timing, you can jail the low ender and be +2 . that's why dragon always does a d1 after his low ender

interesting. video proof?

 

[x TeeJay o]

interesting. video proof?

I can when i get off work. I thought reo updated his post here? Damn i didn't know they were trying to keep in hidden lol

 

[GAV]

 

[Xxonemanwolfpax]

In my opinion i believe that he shouldn't, THIS IS MY OPINION DON'T BASH ON ME

He already has gaps inside of his rekkas so I do not see a point in destroying him. They might have to nerf him but they shouldnt destroy him like they did to tanya. That's what annoys me. I did not like tanya and I don't like Alien but I do not think they should completely destroy the character like they do. Over one issue they destroy the character by nerfing other things that were fine -_-

QOTD- "You are born with talent, you work for skill"

 

[Wigy]

back up a bit. i never said Cage had both oh and low's that where safe. just was saying the OH and it says it in tmy post clearly.

and you left out quite a bit of characters that have safe oh's and or Low's
point was they wher not talking about BF4 being a safe low and OH they where talking about it being a safe special that hits OH, and i said many charcaters have this why is that even remotely close to broken or in any need of fixing?

again why are you freaking out on me?

i seen someone say something incorrect about alien and i corrected it by giving a correct comparison. A character that has a safe OH.

nothing aginst your charcater wiggy, i was simply letting some others know that Alien like many others on this game have safe mixup options and i used Cage and many others as an example.

if your freaking out thinking im making cage sound just like alien thats not what im doing, even though johnny is top 5, im not trying to get anyone nerfed, clearly as all my above posts show.

you shouldn't worry about your cage. my point actually would strengthen that cage doesn't deserve a nerf for his Safe overhead, because Many characters have the same thing.

my point was if almost everyone has safe mixups why would you nerf one character for having what others clearly have.

Character dicussions always descend into people bitchinn about cage. Half the stuff you're saying is what im saying but you're missing the point. other characters have mixup strings, alien has mixup strings with mixup specials on top, one of which is safe. Oh and his low overhead have rediculous range.

My point is Saying 'cage has a safe overhead so aliens fine' is moronic because cage has no block breaking special, he has no proper mixup.

Name another character that has a pretty much half screen low and 1/3screen overhead that can go into another special mixup? And only being unsafe on OH into low if spaced properly. Then he has that rediculous string with the low in the middle which he can hitconfirm into his rekkas. So you basically need to eat a free overhead if he touches you with it.

Lets not even go into his damage output and footsies. dont blindly bitch about cage

 

[dennycascade]

Make tail flip mid (this means f134 can stay low)
Change hitbox or startup of j2, it's insane
Reduce blockstun on b3 so it doesn't jail into rekkas or tail flip (make him at least take a risk if he wants to instantly get in from 3/4 screen)

Honestly this isn't the tanya treatment but it would make alien a lot more fair. He keeps tail flip as a way to end strings safely but he won't be mixing you up with it anymore, he won't have a 50/50 on wakeup anymore, he won't win 100% of air to airs with j2, and he will have to think before using b3 to get in.

 

[YoloRoll1stHit]

Or just cut off his tail? Sounds fair to me

 

[MadeOfMetal]

Character dicussions always descend into people bitchinn about cage. Half the stuff you're saying is what im saying but you're missing the point. other characters have mixup strings, alien has mixup strings with mixup specials on top, one of which is safe. Oh and his low overhead have rediculous range.

My point is Saying 'cage has a safe overhead so aliens fine' is moronic because cage has no block breaking special, he has no proper mixup.

Name another character that has a pretty much half screen low and 1/3screen overhead that can go into another special mixup? And only being unsafe on OH into low if spaced properly. Then he has that rediculous string with the low in the middle which he can hitconfirm into his rekkas. So you basically need to eat a free overhead if he touches you with it.

Lets not even go into his damage output and footsies. dont blindly bitch about cage

ohh now im bitching about cage..lmao, i never did such a thing. i could have but never did. name one post in this thread where im bitching about him. if anyone is throwing out false statements its you sir.

 

[MadeOfMetal]

Make tail flip mid (this means f134 can stay low)
Change hitbox or startup of j2, it's insane
Reduce blockstun on b3 so it doesn't jail into rekkas or tail flip (make him at least take a risk if he wants to instantly get in from 3/4 screen)

Honestly this isn't the tanya treatment but it would make alien a lot more fair. He keeps tail flip as a way to end strings safely but he won't be mixing you up with it anymore, he won't have a 50/50 on wakeup anymore, he won't win 100% of air to airs with j2, and he will have to think before using b3 to get in.

umm NO!

BF4 will stay OH
and
F134 will stay Mid Mid Low.

news flash, alien is fair, she has already been nerfed and normalized. Alien is the new black sheep, the community hs to have something to complain about.

on another note: you obviously don't play alien. that adjustment you suggested, single handedly destroyed Acidic's midscreen mixup, Midscreen Combos, corner carry, and The entire Corner stack combos all in one adjustment. its a good thing you don't work for NRS. wait do you?

yeah it wasn't the tanya treatment, it was worse. lol

 

[Bruno-NeoSpace]

its most certaionly not braindead. its a move thats safe on block. he isn't plus after using it, he doesn't get another turn or anything, people throw out this braindead to much.

She gets a counter-poke situation - flip on block into an armored attack.

more than half the cast have safe mixups, its absurd to act like this one move is brain dead,

Mention those safe mixups.

in fact its startup is kind of slow, in fact on its own it can be interrupted by counter pokes and many normals.

The low is 21f and the flip is 18f, so, it's just 3 frames of difference, so maybe there's no way to fuzzy guard it.

as you said if she does it over and over again on you, then it shouldn't be hard to guess what she does

It's a 50/50. It does not matter how good I am or what I'm thinking in the moment, it is a 50/50!

and you should make him guess since after doing it on you is not plus and in fact it is minus, its your turn, and you can do plenty to stop him.

As I said, most characters in the game can't punish the regular flip, so, if she has one bar, she'll will have a counter-poke situation; if she does not have a bar but she has stamina, she'll be able to do a back dash to avoid the counter-poke situation and she's backdash is one of the best in the game.

 

[MadeOfMetal]

She gets a counter-poke situation - flip on block into an armored attack.
no matter how you look at it its the opponents turn, and its not a counter poke situation, if they use a fast starter into a 50/50. in the end its up to the opponent, if they want to waist there opertunity and let alien blow meter for a shot, then thats there bad. but any character can really do this.



Mention those safe mixups.
Yep that was my point, against a comment someone made, acting like, only alien had the option to use safe mixups



The low is 21f and the flip is 18f, so, it's just 3 frames of difference, so maybe there's no way to fuzzy guard it.
It can most certainly be fuzzyblocked


It's a 50/50. It does not matter how good I am or what I'm thinking in the moment, it is a 50/50!
the way you said it, was they could do the move over and over almost telegraphing there moves before they did them, in a way i was joking. you got what i ment, what character doenst have a guessing game.


As I said, most characters in the game can't punish the regular flip, so, if she has one bar, she'll will have a counter-poke situation; if she does not have a bar but she has stamina, she'll be able to do a back dash to avoid the counter-poke situation and she's backdash is one of the best in the game.
well i don't think anyone can punish the regular tail flip, but they most certainly can do a mixup on her block to force them to guess a 50/50. seems fair to me, you know the standard back and forth game.

 

[Wigy]

ohh now im bitching about cage..lmao, i never did such a thing. i could have but never did. name one post in this thread where im bitching about him. if anyone is throwing out false statements its you sir.

Bitching is not the right word, just making moronic comparisons to a character you know nothing about clearly to try and swing the topic off your stupid ass character would be a more accurate.

 

[MadeOfMetal]

Bitching is not the right word, just making moronic comparisons to a character you know nothing about clearly to try and swing the topic off your stupid ass character would be a more accurate.

incorrect once again, im very familiar with Johnny Alist to be exact.

and nothing i said was Idiotic or Moronic. the only thing that you find moronic is someone does not share the same opinion as you, which i find quite disturbing. basically what i got from this conversation with you, mostly fact less assumptions on your end, with a little word twisting on your part to sound relevent to the point you try to make. As long as someone has a different view or opinion than yourself, they are Idiotic or Dumb/A Moron.

you must have a narrow minded circle of friends where you dwell from. you should seriously consider opening that pool of socialist to a larger list of ways of thinking. it could strengthen many of your views and understandings towards others.

Johnny A-List preferably is a very strong character that really does not even need Mixups, which he does have by the way, because of his overly Broken Cancel pressure, its fine that a character gets a little frame advantage for heavy execution say Plus 3 or so like Predator, which can't even jail btw. but lets bump that up to an obnoxious amount lets say 20 on any given SKRC and down to lets say plus 8 on his worst that should never even be used since he has obvious greater options to choose from, packed with a godlike F3, a decent NJP, great D4 gives him incredible Footsies, but wait, lets add the ability to jail knees into an overhead or lets say Grab, maybe mix it up into an unseable 113 (low) since the cancel from F3 knee allows him to use otherwise unsafe high's that in any other circumstance would be low profiled and make them completely safe to create a very much unreactible and un armorable RC Mixup Low Or OH, which he doesnt need BTW because he has a godlike D4 which can be used to condition opponent to block Low and making that oh so hard to land OH landable.
then you can also just abuse this Cancel advantage and reuse it over and over(kind of like some where saying about Aliens BF4 none EX), who is to know to guess between 1 hit 2 hits or 3 hits before the cancel is done is he gonna grab, OH or do the unsafe Low. just because a move is unsafe does not make it an unuseable or unviable option.


even though i knew all of this and have used him before and quite like Johnny besides his overly cheesy Comments on the clips and game vids. i do not think he is a character that needs a nerf, but compare him to alien with not even the capability to Vortex anymore without being armored.

Alien is not looking so good anymore now right?

aliens Vortex was removed last patch she had. there is a window to armor always now. and lets say Johnny can force a grab or oh, and his Low lets say can be armored. i am seeing many more dirty tools onJohnny than i am with alien. with alien you have to pay for the dirt with meter and positioning. Johnny gets all his with free stamina, that by the end of his Pseudo Vortexing restand nutpuches gives him another forced opertunity to put you right back there.

Like i said before, don't say things you don't know about me.


i am not against Johnny at all. and i 100% believe Johnny should NOT get a single Nerf. but don't stand there and downplay your character and act like alien is worlds above. remember Alien and Johnny share a top5 arguably top3.

just as Johnny does not deserve a Nerf Alien does not deserve one either. A top tier character that is strong in a couple fronts and decent in many others is not warrant for Nerfs. just means they are strong.

like i said before, noone has stated good reasons for a nerf to alien. besides Rekka might jail, and if thats true, Nerf that shit, im down.

but the bullshit about Make F134 a mid, or Tail Flip a mid, is garbage, and there was no argument for it. Just simple rantings of someone frustrated with the given matchup, or a general distaste for the character alone. (not your posts but others)

 

[Invincible Salads]

When timed correctly, you cannot backdash, armor, or poke out of delayed rekkas which in turn you are jailing them. Which makes then safe, and the low ender +2

so you can make it gapless but still +2 on the low ender? o.0 i thought you couldnt do that type of stuff no more.

 

[MadeOfMetal]

so you can make it gapless but still +2 on the low ender? o.0 i thought you couldnt do that type of stuff no more.

so
Rekka still jails?

@lookgirlitsteejay


and there is no gap?

if this is true Aliens Rekka needs adjustment, that is game breaking and is not fair to any matchup. thought NRS would patch it out right the first time, well goes to show, thats NRS, patch out the wrong thing, or hit the right thing, but not enough and cause many more problems that didn't need to be there. there they go wayving that magic Wand around instead of pin pointing the problem and fixing accordingly.

they did it to Tanya, Cyber Sub Zero, Sektor, Cyrax, Smoke, and now Alien. lets see round to, maybe all of us can round up and find it for them, and maybe this time they might listen to us.

 

[ghostwriteous]

Aliens tail should have a hitbox

 

[x TeeJay o]

so
Rekka still jails?

@lookgirlitsteejay


and there is no gap?

if this is true Aliens Rekka needs adjustment, that is game breaking and is not fair to any matchup. thought NRS would patch it out right the first time, well goes to show, thats NRS, patch out the wrong thing, or hit the right thing, but not enough and cause many more problems that didn't need to be there. there they go wayving that magic Wand around instead of pin pointing the problem and fixing accordingly.

they did it to Tanya, Cyber Sub Zero, Sektor, Cyrax, Smoke, and now Alien. lets see round to, maybe all of us can round up and find it for them, and maybe this time they might listen to us.

Yes and No. Rekkas can still jail, but you won't be positive. You will be -6 with gapless DELAYED rekkas. With MAX delay rekkas, your low ender is +2 but it has gaps everywhere

 

[x TeeJay o]

so you can make it gapless but still +2 on the low ender? o.0 i thought you couldnt do that type of stuff no more.

Yup. Still possible lol


EDIT: Actually, no i got this wrong. You can make them pistive but u have to max delay the rekkas. If u make them gapless perfectly, you are -6. Still dumb either way lol