Wigy
There it is...
Hahah chill. Acting like I just took a dump on your pillow @Marinjuana
I would like to hear how is her zoning underrated, what do you mean by that? A lot of characters can outzone her usually due to worse recovery/time of projectile impact, for example she has to get in on lui kang throwing low fireballs, projectile shield doesn't seem to help much here as well just because of the big recovery as well, the time it takes to make a shield and recover from it - allows them to fire another projectilePrefacing this by saying I'm talking about Ice Machine. If you play Frost-Byte I'm gonna assume you enjoy losing or at the very least enjoy struggling to an extent that even I dont want to get into.
To answer the OP, yes she's viable. She controls space very effectively from the midrange to even fullscreen in some MUs. Her zoning is highly underrated and you actually cant jump when trying to get in unless it's like point blank where she wouldnt be throwing projectiles anyway. DB2 eliminates jumping for the most part on the approach and BF3 does a good job of doing that too when you pace your projectile placements effectively.
Good damage, better than a decent chunk of characters in the game and good KBs in the corner (doing them midscreen is essentially pointless, this is a point I agree with but the level of damage she gets in the corner with them makes this point sort of moot to me) Her throw game is extremely good considering you can stagger plenty of goto strings and find areas to place those throws in addition to the fact that she has throw KBs on both back and forward throw makes for a pretty terrifying throw game for your opponent.
Her biggest weakness are whiffing issues and slow buttons but other than that, play a solid grounded game and she becomes pretty formidable.
She defs beats Jade in the zoning war lol.Made a list regarding frost zoning based on experience, didn't really lab it, any thoughts?
Loses or easily punished on reaction (no hard read needed):
Sonya
Geras
Subzero
Jade
Cetrion
Liu Kang
Skarlet
Scorpion (full combo punish tele)
Raiden (full combo punish tele)
Noob saibot (full combo punish tele)
Shang Tsung lol
Sorta even:
Cassie
Erron
Kabal
Kano
Kitana
Kollector
Kung Lao
Wins vs:
Baraka
Jacqui
Dvorah
Jax
Johnny Cage
Kotal Khan
Shao Khan
Just a thing on this:In addition to DB2 winning most of your trades, BF3/AMP BF3 makes them have to think about their approach even more. Do they attempt to jump the AMP part of BF3 and risk getting hit by DB2/Another BF3? Winning a zoning war doesnt boil down to "I'm killing you harder with my zoning than you are" it boils down to how can I counter your zoning and Frost has the ability to shut down a lot of shenanigans. Also we can utilize the projectiles being a high to our advantage because eventually you can start dashing in and doing B2 which will catch neutral ducking. Essentially your zoning is there to stop other characters from zoning and being making them want to come in. Once they have to come in, they have to deal with your extremely strong midrange spacing tools. You wont win completely with zoning in most zoning MUs because hopefully the opponent wises up and realizes they have to play around your zoning due to winning trades, projectile setting up said trades/can actually setup AVOIDING trades and guaranteeing your hit and BF3/BF3 AMP to make them question movement. BF3 AMP being plus on block from afar also works well in conjunction with DB2. DB2 Far is really only okay after knockdowns during your zoning you'll really be using mid range/close DB2 and also close DB2 is actually insane which is something a lot of zoners dont have, close range projectile options. It has basically 0 recovery on it and can institute the idea of being scared to move at that range and neutral ducking for a moment to close distance and if they neutral duck, B2 smacks them at that range for free.
TLDR: Utilizing your favorable trades against most of the zoning MUs in conjunction with DD1 to eliminate specific projectiles to set up your zoning and using B2/BF3/BF3 AMP to make the opponent question movement and HOPEFULLY get hit in the process if you made the right calls.
It depends on the character as far as BF3 and DB2 whiffing but F2 for sure whiffs on the whole cast I know thatJust a thing on this:
There is never a reason for them to neutral duck. Duck block avoids f2, bf3 and db2 so there’s no dash up b2 mixup.
Otherwise I largely agree with what you’ve said.
Sorry but can you be a little more elaborate? Since you spent hours researching her zoning options against certain MU's it's underwhelming to hear you say "she beats skarlet in zoning, she beats jade in zoning, dd1 allows to keep up with liu in addition to other stuff" can you please be more specific? For example mentioning situations and trades you get off them and your plan in regards to that? You're being very broad with all these statements, i would like to hear actual good suggestions besides just "place your projectiles well'.You win the trade of DB2 and basically any projectile, if you think this character has heavy recovery on projectiles I'm just going to assume you dont use DB2 correctly lol. You're beating Skarlet in zoning because of DB2, you're beating Jade in zoning because of DB2. Usage of DD1 allows you to keep up with Liu Kang's zoning in addition to other stuff. She's not this run of the mill projectile character, you need to specifically place your projectiles in the correct spots to force zoning characters in on you. Utilizing DD1, DB2, and BF3 in the spaces where necessary will allow you to outzone a ton of characters in this game. I've spent hours and hours labbing the zoning of basically every MU that matters as far as countering the zoning of other characters.
Against which characters does db2 hit stance held whiffing opponents?It depends on the character as far as BF3 and DB2 whiffing but F2 for sure whiffs on the whole cast I know that
For Jade specifically, her db2 hits through glow and controls the air. She is forced to play a more grounded game with less air glaive which severally limits her options. Our d4 outranges her d4 which means Jade isn’t comfortable in the range she would normally like. The use of shield and the quick recovery of db2 allows you to force your space more proactively than the Jade player can, since all her projectiles are absorbed by your shield while your bombs are not.Sorry but can you be a little more elaborate? Since you spent hours researching her zoning options against certain MU's it's underwhelming to hear you say "she beats skarlet in zoning, she beats jade in zoning, dd1 allows to keep up with liu in addition to other stuff" can you please be more specific? For example mentioning situations and trades you get off them and your plan in regards to that? You're being very broad with all these statements, i would like to hear actual good suggestions besides just "place your projectiles well'.
I don't mean to be rude, sorry if it comes off that way, i'm just curious as to how exactly her zoning could be good in MU's where i'm forced to go in in my opinion (like Cassie or Lui)
She is a solid design for a character that only really needs a few minor tweaks. She is also the type of character that would need to be adjusted carefully.
Every single one of her db2's is fucked. In Ice Machine only use db2,b and only do it point blank on literally sleeping opponents.Her db2 whiffing on crouch blockers is really annoying specially because it can feel random at times
The head as an AA is shit IMO. Its too slow to do it on reaction. You have to read the jump in to use the head and at that point, you might as well uppercut for more dmg. S2 is too slow (13f) I find to do it on reaction. When I play Liu, I use his S1 on reaction because it has good range and is 7f.IMHO committing to zoning is suicide, one mistake and that's it, no more pressure no more zoning, just pray for an interactible escape or a huge punish. I stay in the mid range where head is relevant anti air, short hop comes in to play, and bf3 can't be punished on reaction.
Every single one of her db2's is fucked. In Ice Machine only use db2,b and only do it point blank on literally sleeping opponents.
If they're full screen, do b,f+3 or set up a dd2 shield and try to walk into pressurrre range.
if they're mid in the air, use the head, anti air with 2[,2 xx whatever], b1,2 xx df2 or bf3, etc.
if you're close, again, there's a couple scenarios where it works against a couple characters or in combos, but none of them are better than
b2 (which whiffs, but is more reliable)
f2 (super high, but way better oki)
b3 (low, combos galore)
b1 (weaker combos, but better button)
or if you're smart you just back away cause eventually they're going to realize your fastest button is like 14 frames and it never hits.
You don't argue or discuss in good faith so there was no pointHahah chill. Acting like I just took a dump on your pillow @Marinjuana
I made a whole bunch of actual points as well. Feel free to gloss over that with that wishy washy option select. You got butthurt I said you were upplaying. Chill.You don't argue or discuss in good faith so there was no point