Match-up Discussion Post-patch Match up List and Discussion

[Bug-man_419]

as with any of the teleports blocking is key. try baiting the teleport as this will give you the advantage. duck holding down, then poke (d1) into special. With MB Scorpion is safe the push back puts him out of range even though he is at -8 on block.

 

[Crimson Panther]

any thoughts on the Scorpion MU? im far from an expert on it but against decent scorp's it feels slightly uphill, he doesnt have to really respect b1, his j3 beats all of GLs jump ins, cant zone obviously so air rocket is useless, minigun is only useful for pressure, and lm has to be used properly or you eat death. he has wakeup flip kick or teleport so setups/vortex are risky. again i dont think its terrible but it does feel a little uphill imo just wondering what others thought

I don't have a valid opinion fo that match-up because I only play online. Depending on lag it could be anywhere from an even match-up to disadvantage for Lantern. I'm hoping someone with offline experience will give their opinion.

 

[Crimson Panther]

Reasonable list. I do not want to imagine what zat is like to fight with him. Gross.

It's his worst match-up in my opinion.

 

[Mr. Mileena]

It's his worst match-up in my opinion.

Can we talk about how zatanna just stomps on GL with her knee high stiletto boots.

 

[xQUANTUMx]

Joe I miss playing you

 

[Crimson Panther]

Can we talk about how zatanna just stomps on GL with her knee high stiletto boots.

Lol

Teleport and Rings.....GGs Lantern

 

[Crimson Panther]

But seriously though, she takes advantage of Lantern's bad mobility very well with her rings. Her teleport can punish Lantern's ORs if he tries to fire one after a blocked Puppet Master, and more importantly allows her to totally ignore Lantern's knock down set-ups. The ONLY set-up that still works on occasion is the ambiguous F3 cross up, and in all seriousness she can still get out of that with teleport.

So that knocks him down to taking alot of damage/chip damage getting in, hoping that she messes up for a combo punish, going for max damage landing her in or near a corner or as close to Lantern as possible.

Even in the corner she CAN teleport out. Especially timed right making Lantern whiff his strings cause him to eat a corner combo. Her set-ups are manageable, but difficult at times to deal with.

It seriously feels like sometimes she was designed specifically to body Lantern lol.

 

[Crimson Panther]

And can we PLEASE talk about her damn auto correcting dive kick???

 

[THTB]

Zatanna is GL's Kryptonite. Thank God she is a rare character to come across, though, especially solid ones.

Zod's starting to get a bit better for me, I feel. Still in his favor, but holy shit does the trait LM setup help a lot here.

 

[Orochi]

*Under review-*

-Ares - I still think it's even, just ares players have to play more lame
-Cyborg - Still haven't played MU at highest level but I can still see GL having problems here
-Flash - Even vs a patient Flash IMO. But actual results point to GLs favor
-Hawkgirl - Slight Advantage for GL (because of rocket power/lift threat it limits her air game which is very important to the character, minigun/oas rocket stuffs her wake ups)
-Killer Frost - Even
-Lex Luthor - Slight Advantage for GL (Might be big) ( because of armor breacking oa's grounded rocket, GL zoning is better so Lex has to go in, GL's pressure might be too much for Lex, easy to punish/armor through wake-up for huge damage, Lex needs momentum,)
-Lobo - Even
-Scorpion - Even
-Shazam - Slight Advantage for GL (Might be big) - (Minigun destroys his teleport/wake up teleport, easy to punish dive charge, outzones him bad, better pressure tools, Shazam has to take a lot of risks)

- Bane might be in GL's advantage, Still have not played a Bane smart enough to overcome minigun/zoning, wake-up lift limits bane's pressure to well timed armored specials that might be beat by miniguns wake up.

 

[thaDARKknite]

*Under review-*

-Ares - I still think it's even, just ares players have to play more lame
-Cyborg - Still haven't played MU at highest level but I can still see GL having problems here
-Flash - Even vs a patient Flash IMO. But actual results point to GLs favor
-Hawkgirl - Slight Advantage for GL (because of rocket power/lift threat it limits her air game which is very important to the character, minigun/oas rocket stuffs her wake ups)
-Killer Frost - Even
-Lex Luthor - Slight Advantage for GL (Might be big) ( because of armor breacking oa's grounded rocket, GL zoning is better so Lex has to go in, GL's pressure might be too much for Lex, easy to punish/armor through wake-up for huge damage, Lex needs momentum,)
-Lobo - Even
-Scorpion - Even
-Shazam - Slight Advantage for GL (Might be big) - (Minigun destroys his teleport/wake up teleport, easy to punish dive charge, outzones him bad, better pressure tools, Shazam has to take a lot of risks)

- Bane might be in GL's advantage, Still have not played a Bane smart enough to overcome minigun/zoning, wake-up lift limits bane's pressure to well timed armored specials that might be beat by miniguns wake up.

Are you sure you can punish Shazam wake up teleport with mini-gun? I just went in the lab and he gets out every time with Advancing Teleport. And if they do that then they can punish mini-gun. Am I doing something wrong?

 

[Orochi]

Are you sure you can punish Shazam wake up teleport with mini-gun? I just went in the lab and he gets out every time with Advancing Teleport. And if they do that then they can punish mini-gun. Am I doing something wrong?

I thought you could, I haven't played in a while, it might depend on the timing it might not (I think wake up teleport got buffed too for more invincibility last patch) . I'm pretty sure MB minigun does punish it though and you can MB on reaction

 

[thaDARKknite]

I thought you could, I haven't played in a while, it might depend on the timing it might not (I think wake up teleport got buffed too for more invincibility last patch) . I'm pretty sure MB minigun does punish it though and you can MB on reaction

MB would only make it last longer. The issue is on wake up it has invincibility, so if he does Advancing Teleport he ends up behind you and can punish minigun. Down here in Miami, I play (what I think is) the best Shazam I've ever seen and its the biggest issue I have with him. I honestly think the match is quite even (If not, a bit in his favor) all do to his teleport. It gets him out of all mix ups and if you try to zone him out, the teleport can be used to avoid all your projectiles while building him meter. I'd really like to know if I'm doing anything wrong in the MU

 

[Orochi]

MB would only make it last longer. The issue is on wake up it has invincibility, so if he does Advancing Teleport he ends up behind you and can punish minigun. Down here in Miami, I play (what I think is) the best Shazam I've ever seen and its the biggest issue I have with him. I honestly think the match is quite even (If not, a bit in his favor) all do to his teleport. It gets him out of all mix ups and if you try to zone him out, the teleport can be used to avoid all your projectiles while building him meter. I'd really like to know if I'm doing anything wrong in the MU

Yes if he's close enough he'll go behind you I would not use it in that scenario. I would wait for it and do a standing 12 into mb rocket for 40% damage, or do a neutral jump 1/3 or just jump back for further zoning.

His teleport is okay but not as good as Zattanas or Martians, he's very vulnerable coming out of it. Use more minigun in zoning to make him respect it then your options will expand.

Who's the Shazam you play does he play online? I still think it's in GL's favor but I have not played the Shazam in Miami either.

Also do you have any videos of you playing him?

 

[thaDARKknite]

He's a friend of mine from my play group. Machinegun Panda. We just recently started coming out to tourney so we aren't known. He plays mainly on PC and XBL. I'm gonna see if I can post some vids of our next play session. Maybe you can check it out

 

[Orochi]

He's a friend of mine from my play group. Machinegun Panda. We just recently started coming out to tourney so we aren't known. He plays mainly on PC and XBL. I'm gonna see if I can post some vids of our next play session. Maybe you can check it out

Yes looking forward to it, tbh though I think this MU will get better for you as time goes on.

 

[THTB]

*Under review-*

-Ares - I still think it's even, just ares players have to play more lame
-Cyborg - Still haven't played MU at highest level but I can still see GL having problems here
-Flash - Even vs a patient Flash IMO. But actual results point to GLs favor
-Hawkgirl - Slight Advantage for GL (because of rocket power/lift threat it limits her air game which is very important to the character, minigun/oas rocket stuffs her wake ups)
-Killer Frost - Even
-Lex Luthor - Slight Advantage for GL (Might be big) ( because of armor breacking oa's grounded rocket, GL zoning is better so Lex has to go in, GL's pressure might be too much for Lex, easy to punish/armor through wake-up for huge damage, Lex needs momentum,)
-Lobo - Even
-Scorpion - Even
-Shazam - Slight Advantage for GL (Might be big) - (Minigun destroys his teleport/wake up teleport, easy to punish dive charge, outzones him bad, better pressure tools, Shazam has to take a lot of risks)

- Bane might be in GL's advantage, Still have not played a Bane smart enough to overcome minigun/zoning, wake-up lift limits bane's pressure to well timed armored specials that might be beat by miniguns wake up.

Ares is definitely even. He has to zone GL out, but it's not impossible for GL to navigate through this, and GL outfootsies him to a pretty solid extent. I'm not sure how big of a factor Ares's teleports come into play on wakeup, but I'd imagine they make GL's wakeup useless.

Cyborg is definitely against GL.

Flash is even, despite results. Most players of characters with no projectile are insanely impatient, but Flash can really punish bad decisions on zoning, and once he's in, it's hard to get away without losing a ton of life. Bane falls into the same category. That matchup is even as well, and wakeup lift is terrible vs Bane, actually.

Shazam loses to GL slightly, I think. I haven't gotten a chance to play vs a good Shazam, but last I recall, minigun zoning is good to an extent. And obviously, Shazam ignores GL's wakeup offense.

 

[Orochi]

Ares is definitely even. He has to zone GL out, but it's not impossible for GL to navigate through this, and GL outfootsies him to a pretty solid extent. I'm not sure how big of a factor Ares's teleports come into play on wakeup, but I'd imagine they make GL's wakeup useless.

Cyborg is definitely against GL.

Flash is even, despite results. Most players of characters with no projectile are insanely impatient, but Flash can really punish bad decisions on zoning, and once he's in, it's hard to get away without losing a ton of life. Bane falls into the same category. That matchup is even as well, and wakeup lift is terrible vs Bane, actually.

Shazam loses to GL slightly, I think. I haven't gotten a chance to play vs a good Shazam, but last I recall, minigun zoning is good to an extent. And obviously, Shazam ignores GL's wakeup offense.

Good stuff.

 

[THTB]

Also, Flash easily blows up wakeups like no tomorrow if he has meter with MBb3. You can't even MBf3/MBb3 back.

 

[Orochi]

Also, Flash easily blows up wakeups like no tomorrow if he has meter with MBb3. You can't even MBf3/MBb3 back.

Yea it's a big risk waking up vs flash gotta do it when they least expect it though, if you never wake up you'll eat mix-ups all day. He's scary up close.

 

[THTB]

Okay, biggest things I took away from this trip to Chicago:

-Bane is not even. No way. It's his favor, as I thought from when I fought Mustard so long ago. Just...if you think minigun is the answer, just...you have to play @GGA Max to understand it. It opens up things, but you seriously can't fuck up anything in the neutral lol. And when he gets started, you are reduced to waiting it out and hoping there's room to jump or backdash out. And actually catching Bane on debuff can be hard because his backdash is still super far and oftentimes by the time he gets to debuff, he's doing something to toss you away so you have to chase. It's just dumb lol.

-Catwoman, I'm not even sure on...I mean obviously you all saw @GGA 16 Bit blow me up, and afterwards I learned a few things I should be doing, so I'll chalk it up to my matchup experience lacking here. It comes down to footsies, though, but one knockdown and it can be rough. I want to say advantage GL still, but in all honesty, I'm still not entirely sure because obviously I don't know. I know @GGA Wafflez beats on 16 Bit, but I more wanna chalk that up to Wafflez being really good at some points lol.

 

[Crimson Panther]

Okay, biggest things I took away from this trip to Chicago:

-Bane is not even. No way. It's his favor, as I thought from when I fought Mustard so long ago. Just...if you think minigun is the answer, just...you have to play @GGA Max to understand it. It opens up things, but you seriously can't fuck up anything in the neutral lol. And when he gets started, you are reduced to waiting it out and hoping there's room to jump or backdash out. And actually catching Bane on debuff can be hard because his backdash is still super far and oftentimes by the time he gets to debuff, he's doing something to toss you away so you have to chase. It's just dumb lol.

-Catwoman, I'm not even sure on...I mean obviously you all saw @GGA 16 Bit blow me up, and afterwards I learned a few things I should be doing, so I'll chalk it up to my matchup experience lacking here. It comes down to footsies, though, but one knockdown and it can be rough. I want to say advantage GL still, but in all honesty, I'm still not entirely sure because obviously I don't know. I know @GGA Wafflez beats on 16 Bit, but I more wanna chalk that up to Wafflez being really good at some points lol.

I need to re-edit most of this. Catwoman isn't in GL's favor I don't believe. I think it's even.

Bane...I just don't know. I haven't played Max obviously so I'm sure it's rough. I don't personally rely on minigun. I just wait and punish, but as I said it's not Max's Bane so I'm unsure.

 

[16 Bit]

There is absolutely no chance Catwoman vs Green Lantern is an even matchup. GL oki on her is worse than what she gets on him.

 

[Crimson Panther]

There is absolutely no chance Catwoman vs Green Lantern is an even matchup. GL oki on her is worse than what she gets on him.

But...wake up Trait....

Seriously though it seems hers are better.

 

[16 Bit]

But...wake up Trait....

Seriously though it seems hers are better.

If she doesn't have trait she has no fully invincible wakeup attack. She also has to use scratches to do damage. If she's saving trait for wakeup she's not doing evade punish on b+1,3 and you're free to go hog wild with that. Even when she has it half of GL's setups beat it anyway. This is vs lift that she is always forced to respect and leads to huge reward.

The footsies game is ridiculously in his favor. GL walks back...you guys tell me how CW opens him up without putting her entire bar on the line. Jump or low whip lol?