My Black Manta Matchup Chart: Draft One

[Tweedy]

Could someone elaborate for me about the Black Adam MU? I play Adam but I'm not super familiar vs Manta, and I'm curious what Manta does to him that makes it 6-4?

He punishes black magic with reversal teleport, but besides that struggles vs Adam imo. I think it's probably even personally.

 

[Crusty]

Not that I doubt you but explain the Red Hood mu number.

 

[Cashual]

They're superb against Manta, Manta can't stuff them.

this just isn't correct.

And despite what tweedy said about different timings and all that, GL has a weak wakeup game compared to the majority of the cast. It's just the truth. Wall is the only viable one, it has a slow startup, doesn't advance GL out of trouble, is only safe on MB, and doesn't do much. Like what lantern that is good at all does lift on wakeup other than on the hardest of reads and like maybe once in a ten game set ? But you make mention of it like it's a game changer.

 

[Tweedy]

@Cashual I disagree. The thing about wake ups is that there's a way around all of them, since they're meterless. Whether it be jumping, or strict timing to stuff. I think a wake up that is difficult to jump with a small window to stuff is amazing on this game. Just gotta mix up the two timings. Making it safe with mb is icing on the cake.

Remember we're not playing MKX where you can spend bar for steroid ass wake ups.

 

[Chernyy Volk]

Only works well off 2 strings? Bummer :/ Guess I need to add those to my arsenal. This still doesn't change my opinion of the MU tho. Capt Cold still only needs that one touch to get lvl 2 and from there, the match is over due to Manta's limited answers for it. You have to be 100% rushdown and play perfect to prevent that from happening where Cold does not. That doesn't feel like the mentality of a 7-3 imo.

So just raw laser actually works? Lol finally a character I can do that to and not get blown up! xD

All you have to do after any ender of yours is take one step back, watch the wall whiff and and laser on it's ending frames to get your full damage. It's a legit punish, indicator and all.

 

[Chernyy Volk]

Could someone elaborate for me about the Black Adam MU? I play Adam but I'm not super familiar vs Manta, and I'm curious what Manta does to him that makes it 6-4?

So basically...

d2's long reach makes it good at whiff punishing or intercept punishing f1 in neutral

Black magic is teleport punishable like Tweedy said

Dive kick is easily beatlable with instant air shark attack

Adam doesn't have many answers to flight cancel pressure with shimmys involved, has to guess a lot

Gets mauled on knockdown because Manta's oki eats his wakeup

Just some things for my conclusion.

 

[x TeeJay o]

Exactly how does he beat canary? I don't see how. I've never had issues w him and it's not like he has stuff to throw out on the screen to lock her down and she can't vortex him, but that really doesn't matter since her damage is way better and he really doesn't opress her like most of the MUs she does lose in

 

[Chernyy Volk]

Exactly how does he beat canary? I don't see how. I've never had issues w him and it's not like he has stuff to throw out on the screen to lock her down and she can't vortex him, but that really doesn't matter since her damage is way better and he really doesn't opress her like most of the MUs she does lose in

We'll have to play since you seem like you're a super good Canary. His flight cancel pressure isn't a gimmick on her and he can make her hang herself really easily in the hard read game. She eats shit for attempting parries, and Manta can blow up wake up Cartwheel and Knee both with an option select. She struggles in the neutral IMO because laser completely locks her down. I know she 10-0's everybody once she gets going but in my experience it's brutally difficult for the Canary to get going.

 

[jcbowie]

What would you say stops the Fate matchup from being even?

 

[Pygmy_Potato]

So basically...
d2's long reach makes it good at whiff punishing or intercept punishing f1 in neutral
Black magic is teleport punishable like Tweedy said
Dive kick is easily beatlable with instant air shark attack
Adam doesn't have many answers to flight cancel pressure with shimmys involved, has to guess a lot
Gets mauled on knockdown because Manta's oki eats his wakeup
Just some things for my conclusion.

Thanks. That's interesting. Seems like Adam could easily do without black magic in neutral, but if Manta is also able to shut down his dick kick option with IA Shark Attacks and has a good counter for F1... then yeah, that does start to sound like a problem for him.

I would hope Adam's D2 would be great at swatting Manta out of float cancels but I admit I'm not entirely sure what high level Manta float cancel pressure looks like yet.

 

[Chernyy Volk]

What would you say stops the Fate matchup from being even?

The problem with Fate is his projectiles are too easy to get around, Manta can teleport ball on reaction, his wakeup is stuffable by Manta and it's too easy for Manta to bait for a whiff punish. Every Fate I've played just gets suffocated.

 

[Cashual]

@Cashual I disagree. The thing about wake ups is that there's a way around all of them, since they're meterless. Whether it be jumping, or strict timing to stuff. I think a wake up that is difficult to jump with a small window to stuff is amazing on this game. Just gotta mix up the two timings. Making it safe with mb is icing on the cake.

Remember we're not playing MKX where you can spend bar for steroid ass wake ups.

Fair enough I guess. You input the wakeups differently to do the two different wakeup timing?

 

[KingHippo]

The wakeup timing thing is totally true, I'm surprised most haven't seemed to grasp it yet. Observe.

 

[Tweedy]

Fair enough I guess. You input the wakeups differently to do the two different wakeup timing?

Yeah you can do it early or late. Test it out. Set whoever to do a meaty that will beat your wake up normally, then try to do it slightly late.

 

[x TeeJay o]

We'll have to play since you seem like you're a super good Canary. His flight cancel pressure isn't a gimmick on her and he can make her hang herself really easily in the hard read game. She eats shit for attempting parries, and Manta can blow up wake up Cartwheel and Knee both with an option select. She struggles in the neutral IMO because laser completely locks her down. I know she 10-0's everybody once she gets going but in my experience it's brutally difficult for the Canary to get going.

For sure Idk if the manta I played knew all the tech or knew the canary mu anyway so it will be good for me. He was pretty good though it wasn't like he was sum ranked candy wrapper lol but hopefully we can play today

 

[Kooron Nation]

Manta beats Brainiac, 'zoning' with rockets in neutral makes it impossible for Brainiac to do any of his air shit, and teleport can hit him out of it too.

He also beats cold, cold's traps and trait are easily avoidable with shark attack, rockets, mb laser.

Superman is tough with the lack of fast moves to challenge breath.

 

[Kooron Nation]

You also didn't put CatWoman on here? He beats her purely with laser pressure and rockets in neutral to negate her jump 2

 

[Tundra81]

The wakeup timing thing is totally true, I'm surprised most haven't seemed to grasp it yet. Observe.

Interesting. This is most likely a noob question but I noticed when Manta was stuffing the wake ups the right side of the screen would say "wake up" but when the wake up hit it said "wake up counter" is this because the wake up hit?

 

[Kooron Nation]

Interesting. This is most likely a noob question but I noticed when Manta was stuffing the wake ups the right side of the screen would say "wake up" but when the wake up hit it said "wake up counter" is this because the wake up hit?

Yes, because you are 'countering' their meaty with a wake up

 

[Tundra81]

Yes, because you are 'countering' their meaty with a wake up

Thanks, feel pretty dumb asking and it seemed pretty self explanatory, just checking though.

 

[Cashual]

Yeah you can do it early or late. Test it out. Set whoever to do a meaty that will beat your wake up normally, then try to do it slightly late.

I'll practice that thanks. Think I've done it before and assumed it was a consequence of a particular move that hit me. Like a splat or pseudo hkd or something.

 

[Rex24]

You also didn't put CatWoman on here? He beats her purely with laser pressure and rockets in neutral to negate her jump 2

He doesn’t beat her, it’s 5-5, just in my opinion though. It’s a hard matchup for catwoman for sure , CW player needs to stop jumping and use her other footsie tools more . I just think manta makes abusive catwoman players play more patiently

 

[Hellz HitmaN]

Swamp Thing 7-3? i like this matchup with swamp. It's a little rough with laser pressure, but I can catch Manta's backdash with normals, stuff his wakeup, bully him in the corner. Air vine grab is even an option

I play both Crow and Swamp and i prefer Swamp here

 

[jcbowie]

The problem with Fate is his projectiles are too easy to get around, Manta can teleport ball on reaction, his wakeup is stuffable by Manta and it's too easy for Manta to bait for a whiff punish. Every Fate I've played just gets suffocated.

But once he gets the mb orb out doesn't that kinda shut down virtually all of manta's stronger neutral options? I feel like Manta definitely has some kind of an advantage with his air control, but Fate's regular fireball and his ankh zoning seem hard to contest once he gets started, especially because Manta going into the air lets Fate set up his mb orb more safely if you try to use that to get around zoning.

 

[jcbowie]

Manta beats Brainiac, 'zoning' with rockets in neutral makes it impossible for Brainiac to do any of his air shit, and teleport can hit him out of it too.

He also beats cold, cold's traps and trait are easily avoidable with shark attack, rockets, mb laser.

Superman is tough with the lack of fast moves to challenge breath.

How do you figure Manta beats Cold? Cold's zoning vs Manta is pretty safe, and his crazy d2 helps a lot in getting around Manta's aerial presence and teleport unless he's using a perfectly spaced j3. I feel like Cold has ample opportunity to build resources and set up level 2.

How do you think Manta deals with trait easily though? Like I guess he can avoid getting caught in it because his mobility is okay, but it seems like nothing Manta has can really stop Cold from getting going and then looping the snow globe and building bar unless Cold makes a big mistake.