Most Optimal Frost Kustom?

[Kindred]

I'm having much more success with b.auger/ice auger also. I want to use the headbomb setups but they don't work as well with this patch because of fewer getup frames. Everyone just JUMPS all the fucking time lol. I've been doing setups like yours but I'm leaving out the B1 before b.augers. I find that B1-b.augers leaves them too close sometimes. Burrowing augers are honestly really good. I underestimated them at first for sure.

Yea I noticed that if you're too close it whiffs so if Im understanding correctly, you've been forfeiting the B1 and its more consistent in terms of distant.
So are your BnBs looking like this: B12~Augers(amp) > Burr.Auger
Instead of : B12~Augers(amp) > B1~Burr.Auger
?

 

[Kindred]

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Im loving this burrowing auger!!!

 

[scarsunseen]

Yea I noticed that if you're too close it whiffs so if Im understanding correctly, you've been forfeiting the B1 and its more consistent in terms of distant.
So are your BnBs looking like this: B12~Augers(amp) > Burr.Auger
Instead of : B12~Augers(amp) > B1~Burr.Auger
?

Yup! I'm just skipping the B1 before the b.augers. If you read breakaway after ex-BF1 augers, hit them with B2-b.augers before they fall down. It puts them at the perfect range for the b.augers again. Then it's about 20-25% every time they get hit with a follow-up b.auger on oki. I don't think this variation really leads to big combos, but more-so easily-accessible resets and spacing tools. If I could rank Frost's different variation potential, this custom one would be high up on the list.

My B3 BnB is: B32D2, B1-BF1(amp), then right into b.auger setup. With this starter, ending with B1-BF1(amp) puts them at the perfect distance for BF1-KB or more b.augers. You'll be around +22 if I remember.

With this patch, b.augers are definitely way better than head-bomb, even though that's what I really want to play. Since NRS lessened the amount of get-up frames, head-bomb setups are a lot harder. It has a lot less active frames and block stun than the head-bomb. People just jump on head-bomb setups now. B.augers are really consistent.

 

[Law Hero]

Do you guys think that B.Augers are better than Icequake + Anything? I can't imagine life without Icequake. Pretty sure I get like 30% minimum from it every round.

 

[scarsunseen]

I'd find it it really hard giving up B.Augers at this point. What do you use along with Icequake? I like b.augers and regular augers because it covers spacing, neutral, footsies, damage, zoning, counter-zoning, setups anywhere from +20 to +30 or so, etc..... everything I need.

 

[Law Hero]

I'd find it it really hard giving up B.Augers at this point. What do you use along with Icequake? I like b.augers and regular augers because it covers spacing, neutral, footsies, damage, zoning, counter-zoning, setups anywhere from +20 to +30 or so, etc..... everything I need.

Been using Augers, Quake, and Microburst recently. I use Microburst for the b+1,2 and rare b+2,2 hit confirms which net around 30%. Augers for spacing and safe(ish) pressure typically with b+2. And for Icequake, I think it's an all-around amazing tool. It's (obviously) essentially a safe(ish) divekick. I don't think the utility of such a move can be understated. Getting rid of that air mobility, to me, is like not being able to dash.

Now, I also have a variation that uses the shield instead of Microburst. This is more for specific matchups, and I have it mostly for Rain right now. I use it to help me outzone guys with a single strong projectile. Don't know if I'll keep it around, but it has helped me counterpick recently, so we'll see.

 

[Kindred]

I have spent a lot of time pondering the necessity of icequake because, @Law Hero you're absolutely correct in saying that Icequake's mobility is incredible. The ability to get it on zoners is great and is really its main selling point. The other usage for it is that many people will try to take their turn back after a blocked string (ex: B121), so I will often jump back into ice quake to catch them attacking. However, this gimmick only works when playing against people who arent very patient. Most good players I fought shut down any overuse of the dive kick. Even if the low version is safe, you still forfeit your turn and against a good player, that can mean death.

I also want to add to @scarsunseen 's point, I find that the B.Auger+Auger variation struggles against proper full screen zoning. Both augers are slow and both dont reach full screen. However, the strength comes when you are in range and you trade with one of them. This guarantees that you can now control the flow of the zoning game because the opponent's recovery is so long. Ive been practicing wave dashing to get in more quickly. Anything to put the chips on my side.

Ultimately, the question is, does B.Auger make up for the loss of mobility and honestly, given Frost's range, F2, good dash speed, I find that it is worth it. Although, I must admit, a heavy zoner is a pain in the ass to deal with

Yup! I'm just skipping the B1 before the b.augers. If you read breakaway after ex-BF1 augers, hit them with B2-b.augers before they fall down. It puts them at the perfect range for the b.augers again. Then it's about 20-25% every time they get hit with a follow-up b.auger on oki. I don't think this variation really leads to big combos, but more-so easily-accessible resets and spacing tools. If I could rank Frost's different variation potential, this custom one would be high up on the list.

My B3 BnB is: B32D2, B1-BF1(amp), then right into b.auger setup. With this starter, ending with B1-BF1(amp) puts them at the perfect distance for BF1-KB or more b.augers. You'll be around +22 if I remember.

Yea its combo potential is essentially AA damage. It shines with setups like you mentioned.
I noticed a lot of people delay wakeup after a breakaway (probably because thy just lost all their defensive meter lol), and unless they are constantly pressing buttons, the KB might miss. Im tempted to try B2>B.Auger if I read a breakaway. Theoretically, the B.Auger would get there roughly at the same time as they have to get up and if they press a button, they eat another combo and if they block, then they can get grabbed or more pressure.

My B3 BnB is very similar to yours but I do B32D1 > B12~BF1(amp), then setup.

 

[Law Hero]

Looking forward to seeing more footage from @scarsunseen and @Kindred, because I'm still a filthy nonbeliever when it comes to B.Augers.

That being said, I'm not a setups guy, so I need a lot of teaching before getting a handle on moves like that. I like to stay at the midrange, and focus on whiff punishing and trying to deal guaranteed big damage. That being said, I would like to have my mind changed on those B.Augers.

 

[haketh]

A lot of my time is getting ate up with learning Fire Stance Sheeva but I’m loving what I’m seeing people come up with for Frost

 

[Kindred]

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Overall, Im noticing my meta switch towards prefering to end combos with a setup instead of a hard knockdown or going for damage with the spin since the last thing I want is for them to be full screen.

Notable uses of B.Auger:

Using B2~B.Auger as a pressure tool, forcing opponent to keep blocking > 8:50 to 9:20

SZ zoning w/ ice balls, very risky to trade or try to out zone, forced to chase. Until he fucks up and slides, then B.Auger shenanigans begin > 14:15 - 14:32

Using B.Auger to condition the opponent to block for easy grab > 17:52 - end of round

Using B2~B.Auger as a pressure tool & the opponent makes the unfortunate decision to press a button. Letting go of block at the next setup thinking im going to grab but instead getting greeted with a B1 to the face > 19:23 - 19:33

That comeback on both round 1 and 2 though > 21:28 - 23:23

 

[scarsunseen]

Opponent can't breakaway right after amp augers. You can squeeze in a B2 or auger lunge before they are able to breakaway. My AI dummy is set to Fast Breakaway. Does anyone know if Frost has anything like this where they can't breakaway immediately?

No breakaway allowed between BF1-KB and auger lunge.

 

[Kindred]

Opponent can't breakaway right after amp augers. You can squeeze in a B2 or auger lunge before they are able to breakaway. My AI dummy is set to Fast Breakaway. Does anyone know if Frost has anything like this where they can't breakaway immediately?

I dont but this is really good to know and damn that damage is hawt

 

[scarsunseen]

My anti-zoning/high damage custom is auger, auger lunge, and air dive ("ice quake"). The KB potential with auger and auger lunge leads to really easy 40-50% combos, especially with armor breaks. I probably won't be using Microburst tbh.

 

[Kindred]

The more I've been playing, the more i realize that there is no such thing as an "optimal" Frost variation. Given the breadth of variations now in play, having ONE optimal Frost to deal with all of them, even most of them, is unrealistic. One approach I was thinking of exploring is to create Frost variations based around the different MUs.

Im going to assume that ppl who main a specific character are having similar convos, like us, in terms of finding the best variations possible and they hover around 3 total. With that in mind, I have 26 characters (missing most DLCs), 3 variations a piece. That's around 78 variations to which we need to find the best variation of Frost to counter. That's a bit much so what if we went by character and their overall gameplan? For example

• Jacqui Briggs
  • General Description of play style: Her optimal distance is in your face and her zoning capabilities are basically nonexistent
  • Answer: Frost (B.Auger+Auger)
    • Why: You can control the spacing with both augers. Setups with B.Auger leave her at your optimal distance (basically your B2 range)
• Cetrion
  • General Description of play style: Her optimal distance is midscreen or more (deadly zoning). She can cancel into a special with a lot of push back
  • Answer: Frost (Icequake + Auger + Shield)
    • Why: You can get in with Icequake & have some air control. Augers have midscreen range and are faster than B.auger. Shield can give you the opportunity to use grenades that shut down her slow, but powerful zoning tools.

Etc....for the rest of the characters.

 

[Pan1cMode]

The more I've been playing, the more i realize that there is no such thing as an "optimal" Frost variation. Given the breadth of variations now in play, having ONE optimal Frost to deal with all of them, even most of them, is unrealistic. One approach I was thinking of exploring is to create Frost variations based around the different MUs.

Im going to assume that ppl who main a specific character are having similar convos, like us, in terms of finding the best variations possible and they hover around 3 total. With that in mind, I have 26 characters (missing most DLCs), 3 variations a piece. That's around 78 variations to which we need to find the best variation of Frost to counter. That's a bit much so what if we went by character and their overall gameplan? For example

• Jacqui Briggs
  • General Description of play style: Her optimal distance is in your face and her zoning capabilities are basically nonexistent
  • Answer: Frost (B.Auger+Auger)
    • Why: You can control the spacing with both augers. Setups with B.Auger leave her at your optimal distance (basically your B2 range)
• Cetrion
  • General Description of play style: Her optimal distance is midscreen or more (deadly zoning). She can cancel into a special with a lot of push back
  • Answer: Frost (Icequake + Auger + Shield)
    • Why: You can get in with Icequake & have some air control. Augers have midscreen range and are faster than B.auger. Shield can give you the opportunity to use grenades that shut down her slow, but powerful zoning tools.

Etc....for the rest of the characters.

Quite a few jacqui’s are running grenades now; so her zoning/range is very different. Either upgraded + grenades or clinch+grenades and cancels/hyper knee/enhanced air blast.

I find ice quake + auger + microburst/auger lunge to be my go to against jacqui with grenades equipped.

 

[Kindred]

Quite a few jacqui’s are running grenades now; so her zoning/range is very different. Either upgraded + grenades or clinch+grenades and cancels/hyper knee/enhanced air blast.

I find ice quake + auger + microburst/auger lunge to be my go to against jacqui with grenades equipped.

Well shit lol This just adds so much variability and complexity to the game its incredible.
Funny I was thinking of icequake + Auger + Auger Lunge. I feel auger lunge might be better than microburst for a few reasons. First, the microburst combined with augers in the same combo scales a lot and I end up just doing regular Auger combos. So replacing it with auger lunge gives a fast mid that can catch zoners off guard and has great corner carry and a potential KB. I feel i get a bigger bang for my buck by using that extra slot for auger lunge than microburst

 

[Kindred]

Yet another reason why I love Burrowing auger....
We usually set up the B.Auger with Starter~Augers(Amp) > B1~B.Augers OR Starter~Augers(Amp) > B.Augers
The opponent can either wake up U3 or roll away, otherwise they have to block.

By following up the amplified augers with B2~B.Augers, you essentially remove the U3 option entirely. Reducing their many wake up options to either rolling away or just blocking. So you can continue your pressure without skipping a beat

You can punish the U3 if you are far enough regardless but on characters with a far reaching U3 (thinking of Shao Kahn), B2~B.Augers keeps you at a safe distance in case the setup misses

 

[Pan1cMode]

Yet another reason why I love Burrowing auger....
We usually set up the B.Auger with Starter~Augers(Amp) > B1~B.Augers OR Starter~Augers(Amp) > B.Augers
The opponent can either wake up U3 or roll away, otherwise they have to block.

By following up the amplified augers with B2~B.Augers, you essentially remove the U3 option entirely. Reducing their many wake up options to either rolling away or just blocking. So you can continue your pressure without skipping a beat

You can punish the U3 if you are far enough regardless but on characters with a far reaching U3 (thinking of Shao Kahn), B2~B.Augers keeps you at a safe distance in case the setup misses

If you do b2~b.auger they can jump out

 

[Kindred]

If you do b2~b.auger they can jump out

Consistently?
Because they can sometimes jump out of B1~B.Auger as well but its not consistent. As I think about it, that slight delay that waits for the armor to be gone is long enough for the jump to save them....

 

[Pan1cMode]

Consistently?
Because they can sometimes jump out of B1~B.Auger as well but its not consistent. As I think about it, that slight delay that waits for the armor to be gone is long enough for the jump to save them....

Yup; b1~auger still allows them to jump out too.

Only thing that hits truly meaty and forces them to either roll, block or wakeup u3 is b auger straight after regular auger.

 

[Kindred]

Yup; b1~auger still allows them to jump out too.

Only thing that hits truly meaty and forces them to either roll, block or wakeup u3 is b auger straight after regular auger.

So I just tested it and indeed the jump out is not only consistent, but fucking easy lol

I have a lot of success with B1~B.Auger though against jumps. Sometimes they do manage to jump out though so to be optimal, Im gonna start going straight into B.Auger. Im currently testing it out and it seems that poke D1 into B.Auger still works against wake up jumps.

 

[Malec]

Dont you give up to much damage going straight into B.Auger after Auger hits to get a meaty? I mean they dont even have to guess, seeing you going into B.Auger, they just dont jump.

 

[Kindred]

Dont you give up to much damage going straight into B.Auger after Auger hits to get a meaty? I mean they dont even have to guess, seeing you going into B.Auger, they just dont jump.

You dont lose a significant amount of damage honestly. I mean its low either way, a B1 or B2 doesnt make a huge difference.
I noticed that if you od hit the B1 while they are at a certain height, then they cant jump

 

[NappyNuisance]

Been using b. Augers and I have been sleep but now I waketh. Definitely have to have multiple Frost variations setup she's one of few characters that may have tools for pretty much all her weaknesses. Just not in 1 package

 

[Wigy]

B22 bf1mb b2db1 db2 covers everything but f roll.

B auger does seem kinda meh though.