Character Design/Depth Tier List

[Blakfellow]

I wanted to start a fun little discussion to see who you all think are the best designed characters when it comes to their playstyles/tools/depth. I believe it is sooo unoirtabt for characters not only to be strong but also have layers of complexity to them that can't be figured out quickly. Lately we have all been talking about how great it would be for nrs to buff characters but I think it is important to note that it has to be in a well thought out matter. You can have a character that only has 1 button which is a hard to block 10 frame mid launcher and have him be super strong but if the depth and layers aren't there, the game dies out faster. A great example of this is street fighter which has complex in game mechanics which add a built in layer of depth to all characters but also the fact that each character has 6-7 special moves with each having light medium and heavy versions creates very in depth character designs. On top of that add many level 2s that completely change the characters tool set as well as command normals, the characters in general have much more depth than the average mk1 character. It is important to note this has nothing to do with the visual aesthetics of the character and little to do with the actual strength of the character.

Below is my tier list:

S: Quan Chi, Kenshi, Shang Tsung
A: General Shao, Smoke, Geras, Nitara, Ashrah,
B: Rain, Li Mei, Havik, Sindel, Reiko, Johnny Cage, Peacemaker
C: Baraka, Kitana, Reptile, Raiden, Liu Kang, Mileena
F: Omni Man, Scorpion, Sub Zero, Tanya, Kunglao

I think the biggest indicator of whether a character is designed poorly is if you can jump into the lab with the character and figure them out quickly. The truly great character designs are like an onion that have many layers that have to be peeled back before you can truly see their potential.

 

[Kiss the Missile]

Geras is an EASY S tier. He's one of the only characters in the game with a true OTG

Combine that with the fact that his Recall isn't only an incredible defensive tool, but can also be used offensively, Geras' tech is near Endless

Yes I like to spam my videos as much as possible. I've been really busy lately, but I have some ideas on some anti Peacemaker tech that I'm eager to try out

 

[Blakfellow]

Geras is an EASY S tier. He's one of the only characters in the game with a true OTG

Combine that with the fact that his Recall isn't only an incredible defensive tool, but can also be used offensively, Geras' tech is near Endless

Yes I like to spam my videos as much as possible. I've been really busy lately, but I have some ideas on some anti Peacemaker tech that I'm eager to try out

Geras definitely has a decent bit of depth. Easily one of the better designed characters in the game. Those otgs are cool. Hadn’t seen them before

 

[SaltShaker]

Interesting thread idea. I don't have any major disputes with your list other than Geras being an absolute S-Tier and moving Li Mei one spot down to the C-Tier group. Looking at it like this it would be pretty awesome if all the characters were built like the top three tiers there lol.

 

[Fatality o]

Shao definitely one of the best designed characters this game. Once you figure out axeless pressure and realize all the options he has when he’s near the axe, then add kameos to the mix? He’s very rewarding to play and the most fun I’ve had yet tbh

 

[ImpostorOak]

unoirtabt

 

[chrisisnice]

I think the biggest indicator of whether a character is designed poorly is if you can jump into the lab with the character and figure them out quickly.

I don't think that is a fair statement. There are always simple characters in every game because it makes it accessable - that is why they have Sub/Scorp/Ryu/Mitsurugi etc in every game. It is important to have characters of all levels of complexity. If every character was overly complex, the bulk of people would not play it. It is just not that fun.

 

[Amplified$hotz]

I think only Geras, Reptile, and Omni man have any sort of depth to them. Everyone else is easy to pick up and be effective with. Especially if you already have experience with NRS games.

 

[Felipe_Gewehr]

I think only Geras, Reptile, and Omni man have any sort of depth to them. Everyone else is easy to pick up and be effective with. Especially if you already have experience with NRS games.

As a Reptile main, I disagree. His gameplay plan is pretty straight forward: try to open them up with the fast, far reaching low and end the combo into an invisibility setup (that is VERY easy to blow up). Toss some forceballs from midscreen for pressure, but not TOO MANY as they are easily reactable. Throw in the occasional overhead or overhead cancel into slide. That's it. There arent any intricate setups or whatever, he's a Smoke with no cancels and a delayed invisibility and a worse overhead. You may occasionaly catch people off guard with 24 into scorpion hellfire for a combo, or s3 into hellfire, but that's no game changer.

 

[Eji1700]

Sub does have quite a lot of tech based around ice clone, especially now that he's got metered clone. Some of that tech is about scamming stupid things like his clone cd timer, and some of it is about getting to do the clone late enough after a KD to make sure it's still useful after they get up, even if you take the time to check them.

I think it pulls him out of F, but only just, since those are his cool options but in a real match most of your time is spent following a pretty boring flow chart in the neutral. If you do have advantage, the corner, and meter, but no clone, you're still very limited on what your real options are to pressure.

 

[Blakfellow]

I don't think that is a fair statement. There are always simple characters in every game because it makes it accessable - that is why they have Sub/Scorp/Ryu/Mitsurugi etc in every game. It is important to have characters of all levels of complexity. If every character was overly complex, the bulk of people would not play it. It is just not that fun.

This is a fair point but I would argue that characters like Ryu on paper have a simple game plan and for someone new to fighting games can serve as a starting point. But with that being said, he still has light medium and heavy versions of all his specials which allow for much more depth than their nrs beginner friendly counterparts.
This allows the new players to get their feet wet and still have an easy effective game plan and once they get better it allows them to dive in more in the complexities of the character.

 

[rifraf]

A tier list I can be a part of

 

[Kiss the Missile]

A tier list I can be a part of

View attachment 21487

Why is Ashrah in the easy tier? I've never really used her, but I'd imagine having to manager her Dark/Light state, the dark debuffs on the opponent and her teleport/phase cancels she'd at least be B tier.

 

[rifraf]

Why is Ashrah in the easy tier? I've never really used her, but I'd imagine having to manager her Dark/Light state, the dark debuffs on the opponent and her teleport/phase cancels she'd at least be B tier.

Well, similarly to Raiden and JC before the nerfs, she doesn't really have to use her full kit to be successful. Her main setplay is simple and extremely effective.

 

[Kiss the Missile]

Well, similarly to Raiden and JC before the nerfs, she doesn't really have to use her full kit to be successful. Her main setplay is simple and extremely effective.

I don't think that should matter at all. Just because most people don't go deep doesn't mean she lacks depth

 

[rifraf]

I don't think that should matter at all. Just because most people don't go deep doesn't mean she lacks depth

Fair enough. If there was more fierce competition from the rest of the cast, then I believe Ashrah players could be pressed to use her a bit more in depth. Similar to JC star power which made no real sense to "invest" in it during a match. Now, I do see players starting using it a bit at least.

 

[Felipe_Gewehr]

I don't think that should matter at all. Just because most people don't go deep doesn't mean she lacks depth

It matters in the sense that you don't need to go deep for her to be successful at all. Baraka has air blade sparks and bleeding ex blade sparks, except you'll never see those being used because autoshimmiing b3 into safe kameo is enough to win with him - does it mean Baraka is not complex? Well... yes. Likewise, you can count on one hand the number of Johnny Cages that use his Star Power trait, something unique no other character has, because herp derp plus frames all day into un-antiairable jump kick is enough to win.

 

[Blakfellow]

Fair enough. If there was more fierce competition from the rest of the cast, then I believe Ashrah players could be pressed to use her a bit more in depth. Similar to JC star power which made no real sense to "invest" in it during a match. Now, I do see players starting using it a bit at least.

Although this can be debated, I would argue that in order for a character to have a great design, all if not most of their toolkit should be used in order to maximize their potential.

A good example of this is kenshi. You need to know how to use all of his toolkit or you will never play him to his max potential.

a bad example of this is Johnny cage. In theory he has quite a bit of depth because of his star power but unfortunately it’s not really used at a high level because of the risk reward is not worth it.

As for Ashrah, you definitely need to master her dark stance to unlock her full potential. This is especially true for certain matchups. Just look at players like young monster and dragon.

 

[Wigy]

Li Mei should be a tier higher IMO. Her kit is unconventional. Shes got a 7f punisher locked behind one of the hardest execution requirements. Mastering her neutral is different than a lot of the cast. She doesnt really have good options for common scenarios so you have to kind of piece together unusual parts of her kit to fill the gaps.

 

[rifraf]

Although this can be debated, I would argue that in order for a character to have a great design, all if not most of their toolkit should be used in order to maximize their potential.

A good example of this is kenshi. You need to know how to use all of his toolkit or you will never play him to his max potential.

a bad example of this is Johnny cage. In theory he has quite a bit of depth because of his star power but unfortunately it’s not really used at a high level because of the risk reward is not worth it.

As for Ashrah, you definitely need to master her dark stance to unlock her full potential. This is especially true for certain matchups. Just look at players like young monster and dragon.

I do agree both Ashrah and JC have depth, and even Raiden for that matter. They're not shallow like Omni-Man and Baraka for example. It's just that their kits' distribution of power is probably a bit uneven, resulting in less gameplay variety while focusing more on specific, relatively easy OP setplays.

 

[NHDR]

Geras and Kenshi are my favorites in terms of depth and design.

 

[rifraf]

One of the lamest things in MK1 right now is watching tournaments and seeing Ashrah and Raiden matches. No matter the player or the opponent, their setplay is exactly the same, every.... single.... time

Don't get me wrong, easy, super efficient setplays are completely fine. But when they are attached to the most powerful characters in the game, it just dumbs it all down and it's super boring to watch.

In comparison, back in MK9 you'd see Kabal being played relatively similar across many top players, but good luck pulling Kabal's optimal setplay consistently. It was hype seeing it happen. There's nothing hype doing d1 to stormcell over and over again. A monkey can do that

 

[TarkatanPeriodontik]

It matters in the sense that you don't need to go deep for her to be successful at all. Baraka has air blade sparks and bleeding ex blade sparks, except you'll never see those being used because autoshimmiing b3 into safe kameo is enough to win with him - does it mean Baraka is not complex? Well... yes. Likewise, you can count on one hand the number of Johnny Cages that use his Star Power trait, something unique no other character has, because herp derp plus frames all day into un-antiairable jump kick is enough to win.

This I agree with. Characters should have distinct win conditions. That’s what adds to their depth is they have individuated game plans. Kameos help unlock them for characters like Lao hat can be held after getting a hard knock down on your opponent to continue cheeky low high okizeme. Some characters have beeen blessed with the tools to have a game plan. Most need a Kameo to complete them.

 

[BarakaTile]

Cool thread, I'll post my thoughts on it later.

It matters in the sense that you don't need to go deep for her to be successful at all. Baraka has air blade sparks and bleeding ex blade sparks, except you'll never see those being used because autoshimmiing b3 into safe kameo is enough to win with him - does it mean Baraka is not complex? Well... yes. Likewise, you can count on one hand the number of Johnny Cages that use his Star Power trait, something unique no other character has, because herp derp plus frames all day into un-antiairable jump kick is enough to win.

I definitely agree Baraka is shallow and incredibly reliant on his Kameo but I want to add that You'll never see (Air) EX Blade Sparks being used because it's not a great move. It's not bad but it doesn't give him anything incredible. Doesn't give him higher damage and it's not as useful a tool as b3.

You can use it with Khameleon's Fan Lift but you're better off doing something else.

You'll also never see Bleeding EX Sparks as often because Baraka is tightly clutching onto his meter for better damage/bleed opportunities with Stab Stab or for the Combo Breaker. Not to mention there are so many ways to discourage projectiles and EX Bleeding Blade is not the type of projectile that eats other projectiles like Liu Kang, Sindel and Sub-Zero.

If Johnny is shallow because he has all this good stuff in his kit he doesn't need, Baraka is shallow because he's using the 2 or 3 good things in his otherwise small mediocre kit.

 

[YagamiFire]

Geras is an EASY S tier.

Objectively correct statement right here. Geras actually has interesting design that feeds into his concept as a character.

I will say, I look at 'design' of a character less restrictively than OP. Someone can be simple but well designed if that design matches their concept and lets them fulfill it. Complexity doesn't necessarily mean quality.

For example, bottom of the barrel is probably someone like Scorpion. WTF even is his concept? He doesn't particularly feel like Scorpion. He is just...weird and clunky af.

Johnny is also badly designed by the fact that his entire gimmick of Superstar mode is pretty much not utilized.

At first I liked Reiko's design but as I played him more and more he just seemed increasingly incoherent and thrown together. He's a weird mish-mash of stuff and has no identity.

I'd say identity is a big problem in the game in general. NRS seems to have struggled worse with archetypes than ever before in MK1.