This one is insane. Her ex version is safe on block. Maybe make it so the ex version has the same frame data on regular and flawless block?instant airdb4 safe on block
Did you want it to have a faster startup? Or just have more active frames? Can I ask how this change would help her? As in, what is the desired outcome of this change; to make her combos more consistent? allow easier punishes? Help with anti-airs? What is the purpose of this?active frames on db3 start sooner and last longer
I feel like a plus on block, full screen, launching projectile should not be mid. While it would be super helpful to prevent people poking through gaps in strings, I feel this would be incredibly good.EXbf1 is now mid
Agreed, this is frustrating. Would also add to increase cancel advantage of 124, so that if the 1 is blocked/whiffs but the 24 hits, ex bf1 will still hit.12 no longer whiffs on 2 sometimes
Doesnt it already? Or do you mean like restands? Or like Ashrah’s 21? This would stuff up some of her more interesting combo routes.b2 staggers the opponent
Sure, her fatal blow can be annoying to combo into.active frames on Fatal Blow start sooner
As in besides b34?an extra move after b3 is added
Hahahahaha.She needs them.
fuckin lolShe needs them.
this would be straight bonkers. NRS pleaseIf Li Mei hits her own lantern with bf1, it hits mid (currently hits high)
I really want this move to be good because it feels sick to land a good low one but I'm struggling to find any applications where grounded bf1 isn't just better. I generally don't pop lanterns because I just want them on the screen all the time and the recovery of iafb is just so long along with it being kinda annoying to execute well (pad player problems) and pretty punishing if you mess it up makes me wanna say it's not worth it. It can dodge random stuff like low fireballs or KL low hat but you don't really gain anything for taking a moderate risk. You can alter your jump arc I guess? But that's pretty bad at most ranges and air db4 already does that better anyway. I think I got a okie doke headshot to close a round exactly once and that's the best thing it's ever done. Idk in practice it just feels so bad when grounded bf1 is just so good. Maybe I just need to practice my execution and it'll make the move cheap.Reduce the recovery frames of iabf1 to make it slightly faster than grounded bf1 (maybe similar to sindel’s hairball?)
I don't think it's insane at all tbh. I think this move absolutely needs to be safe on block and I'm honestly baffled why it's not already. As for for her EX version, sure why not. Characters in this game have actually insane moves. What does Li Mei have? +frames? kameo Scorpion? PLZThis one is insane. Her ex version is safe on block. Maybe make it so the ex version has the same frame data on regular and flawless block?
There is hardly an execution barrier for this move for anyone who plays these games, and that has nothing to do with balance anyway. Who else even has an 11f overhead covering that much space (and with two hits!)?? The rest are all high 20s frames. Li Mei has solid zoning, great damage, great damage off an armored move that zooms across half the screen, plus frames, staggers for strike/throw.. She doesn't need safe 50/50s as well. If this move was safe you would literally just back up and do it again until they chipped to death, I can't think of another move with that much range for that speed, besides death on block type charges. Li Mei is a space control character. You shut down the air with 1 move and any time the opponent moves is a risk because you could charge them for 400+ at any time. You get to get off your other safe moves because they respect your options, the fact that you can back up and charge any whiff in neutral, and when they don't you blow them up and teach them a lesson. Everything is not supposed to be safe for free, but if you really want to make it safe you can use a kameo for that... One single character is not supposed to have everything.I don't think it's insane at all tbh. I think this move absolutely needs to be safe on block and I'm honestly baffled why it's not already. As for for her EX version, sure why not. Characters in this game have actually insane moves. What does Li Mei have? +frames? kameo Scorpion? PLZ
- It's a move that it's impossible to get any combo off of it
- It has a relatively high execution barrier to pull of consistently and accurately
- It's arguably one of her main signature moves that uses a lot for punishing
- It's very punishable on higher lvls of play
I stopped reading after that. You are entitled to your opinion though.There is hardly an execution barrier for this move for anyone who plays these games, and that has nothing to do with balance anyway.
In the world of MK, this is relatively high execution. Also, execution complexity is most definitely an integral part of balance.It's five button / two slidey motions and a button.
I adressed the move further but you stopped reading..In the world of MK, this is relatively high execution. Also, execution complexity is most definitely an integral part of balance.
Anyway, that's only one point I included in my argument. Just a reminder, Kenshi has 15 seconds of sento. Geras has 1 bar breaker that also negates dmg. I could go on but think about that every time you want to make an argument against buffing Li Mei.
Her armoured move only launches in the corner with scorpion, and the damage is not the same as say Kung Lao.great damage off an armored move that zooms across half the screen
I think it’s a combination of it’s range, speed, and overall utility.I don't think it's insane at all tbh. I think this move absolutely needs to be safe on block and I'm honestly baffled why it's not already. As for for her EX version, sure why not. Characters in this game have actually insane moves. What does Li Mei have? +frames? kameo Scorpion? PLZ
- It's a move that it's impossible to get any combo off of it
- It has a relatively high execution barrier to pull of consistently and accurately
- It's arguably one of her main signature moves that uses a lot for punishing
- It's very punishable on higher lvls of play
Yeah, it's a punishing move. And it can be a really great punishing move if it was safe on block by the majority of the cast, maybe -7. When you play with a competent player, this move is garbage. There's no way you'll just throw that out and you're not getting 40-50% full comboed. It's -12 at best on block with no pushback.I think it’s a combination of it’s range, speed, and overall utility.
If you're using a move as a true punish it won't be able to be blocked because the opponent is still in recovery frames. You are probably missing opportunities for stagger pressure / throws and/or full combo punishes from her 1, 2, or 4 starters, if you are throwing out air db4 as a response to blockstrings and it is being blocked. This may be what's causing you to think Li Mei needs help, you're essentially missing out on 30%+ combo opportunities for a 10% OH which is being blown up half the time. You need to learn what your opponents moves are on block to have the appropriate punish or response planned. I think db4 is better used as a neutral tool to encourage the opponent not to hold down block all game, subsequently increasing the chance your F4 starter hits. And also as a great move for the range/speed in general.Yeah, it's a punishing move. And it can be a really great punishing move if it was safe on block by the majority of the cast, maybe -7. When you play with a competent player, this move is garbage. There's no way you'll just throw that out and you're not getting 40-50% full comboed. It's -12 at best on block with no pushback.
#She needs it.
True, didn't realize only the non ex version launched midscreen. Thanks for correcting meHer armoured move only launches in the corner with scorpion, and the damage is not the same as say Kung Lao.
With Khameleon and Goro you can get a slight launch midscreen but again damage is not “great”.
What causing me to think Li Mei deserves buffs (like many others in the game) is the fact characters like Raiden, JC and Kenshi exist in the game.This may be what's causing you to think Li Mei needs help
Im not against it but she doesn't exactly feel among the weakest characters in the game either. Balance should always have discussion for both sides, to keep it.. balanced. Air db4 safe on block seems like a bit crazy of a buff imo, and its a pretty big buff list in general for 'she needs it'. I would agree with fixing any whiffing consistency issues on 12 though, I don't play her myself so I didn't know about that.What causing me to think Li Mei deserves buffs (like many others in the game) is the fact characters like Raiden, JC and Kenshi exist in the game.
I don't understand why anyone would be against buffing Li Mei. Unless you are one of those people that prefer nerfing everything down instead of buffing things up. That would make sense.
Fair enough. We should be open to criticism, I agree.Balance should always have discussion for both sides, to keep it.. balanced.
I miss that approach to mix-ups. That U3 is really perfectly designed imoAnother thing they could add is Sektor's up3 cancel from MK9. I think it fits the character really well actually. For anyone that doesn't know or remember the move, upon pressing up3, Sektor would raise his knee with the ability to cancel into a dash, a low or an overhead. The overhead would hard knockdown the opponent, and that's the version I suggest for Li Mei. So, by pressing up3 Li Mei would enter into a state were she can cancel into a dash, an overhead that knockdowns or b34. It will not give her true mix, but hopefully more ways to have your opponent guessing.
Thoughts?
Oh right! I actually forgot you could link a teleport after the overhead if you committed to it. It's been a while But yeah, I totally agree with you. The super reactable overheads with huge reward in MK1 is probably my least favorite mechanic. It's not a bad design since it's fair but it's not great either.I miss that approach to mix-ups. That U3 is really perfectly designed imo
Requires setup. Safe low option. Unreactable Overhead with low meterless reward unless to take a huge risk in linking it with Teleport, or you can spend meter for good reward and safety.
Really not a fan of the reactable overheads with huge reward that are everywhere in MK1. I don't get the purpose. Almost like they designed them to be annoying online on purpose.
How does the move work and how would it apply to Li Mei?If we could have anything, I’d love a special similar to high tech Jacqui’s df2
Yeah, I don't see her being touched in a patch. But, I do expect something kool for her when the inevitable expansion releases.I don’t think they’re gonna touch Li Mei much though. She functions ok enough to have a solid game plan
It was a standard special that hit mid and was like -1/-2 on block. On hit it put you at like +15, and if it hit you while you were airborne, it knocked away. It could be cancelled out of (with dash/run) which left her plus (when run cancelled). Could also be held which kinda “charged” it up before it released. If held it for like 1 second it was +12 on block and for 2 seconds would release and be +24 with quite a bit of pushback. Also gave her some interesting combo routes. The ex-version had two hits which jailed, could not be cancelled and was like +3 on block with quite a bit of chip.How does the move work and how would it apply to Li Mei?
That sounds so interesting though and it fits the character. Considering both Rain and Reptile both got cancel moves, there's a chance NRS is looking into expanding this mechanic to more characters, and personally I'm all for it.If Li Mei were to get something like this it would probably use a similar animation to the second hit of b21, would be -6 on block, dash cancels probably +1 to -4 on block depending on the string. Ex version +2 on block with much faster cancel (maybe +2-+7 depending on strings).
Yeah, but it’d be pretty broke hahaThat sounds so interesting though and it fits the character. Considering both Rain and Reptile both got cancel moves, there's a chance NRS is looking into expanding this mechanic to more characters, and personally I'm all for it.
The way you described the ex version, yeah it sounds it would be broken in MK1. But I could see the regular being fine. No? Besides, not every move needs an ex version.Yeah, but it’d be pretty broke haha
Aside from that specific cancel, she does feel similar in strings and special cancels to High Tech Jacqui. Whom was one of my favorite characters (and you one of my favorite players) up until one of the final patches more or less killed her off. So much fun to play with. I think the reason I keep the audio cues on for the hit type is because I miss the 'tink tink tink' from high tech Jacqui.If we could have anything, I’d love a special similar to high tech Jacqui’s df2, the burst that could be cancelled, but was plus when held. That’d probably be broken in MK1 though.
I had the most fun playing high tech Jacqui and the execution barrier made her really rewarding when done correctly.
I don’t think they’re gonna touch Li Mei much though. She functions ok enough to have a solid game plan, and she gets quite a lot out of the kameo system.
I still chuck on MKX and give her a run whenever I can haha.Aside from that specific cancel, she does feel similar in strings and special cancels to High Tech Jacqui. Whom was one of my favorite characters (and you one of my favorite players) up until one of the final patches more or less killed her off. So much fun to play with. I think the reason I keep the audio cues on for the hit type is because I miss the 'tink tink tink' from high tech Jacqui.