G4S KT
Gaming4Satan Founder
Hi all, I'm starting this thread to really get a heavy discussion about Smoke's offense going and try to open up more possibilities. I feel his biggest weakness is how one dimensional his offense is, and it's very easy to get stuck in a rut, so to speak.
Personally, I find myself fishing with max range d4 to start pressure from neutral positioning a lot, probably more than I should. But, I can't really find any other good way besides spacing. It's pretty easy to jump over a d4 and I haven't been able to AA standing 2 after a whiffed d4 and then I'm in pressure.
The only other ways I can think to initiate offense is if the enemy has weak AA to jump kick/air throw > teleport into oki pressure, or go for a b2 as they're chasing me.
I also did some thinking and I realized that due to the nature of Smoke's normals, if you're block stringing someone it's very unlikely that they'll get opened up for a full combo, and very easy to reverse the pressure. This is especially true if you get too happy with Poke 'n Smoke (trademark ). To that end, I now believe it's better to quickly finish out your block string pressure with a throw.
Take for example this situation:
you get a smart cross up into block strings and you do:
3d12 > d1 > d1 > d1 xx smoke bomb
you've done 6% chip, built maybe just under 3/4 of a bar and now the pressure is reversed.
What if you do this instead:
3d1 > 3d1 > throw
now you've done 20% damage, built maybe half a bar of meter and given yourself advantage, especially if they don't tech roll after the throw. If they do tech roll, you can still get a free invis or drift after them if you so choose.
To me, the second scenario is a MUCH better choice. But, 3d12 and 112 are the only strings that can fake someone into eating a throw. All the rest of his strings are about 0 when staggered, but with 21 and b2 and b1 the opening is so obvious that you can't follow up with another block string and are forced to poke.
But, I think that's the path that needs to be gone down. Using these obvious openings, poking, and then continuing with non poke pressure. d1 xx smoke bomb as pressure has become the enemy for me. Which brings me to some (what I think is, anyway) new tech…
At point blank range, on hit, d3 gives enough advantage to cross up your opponent and clear all of their grounded normals. This was tested with Sektor and his 6 frame d1, 6 frame standing 1, and 7 frame big-arm uppercut all failed to knock Smoke out of the air on the way up. They can, however, jump themselves and go for an aerial AA (which you can beat in a frame war), or use fast advancing AA specials (like Kano ball, flip kick, hat spin, etc.) which will beat you or at least escape if they see it coming. But, besides that I think this is a pretty big deal.
This can open up possibilities like this for block strings:
d4(hit) > b2 > d3(hit) > CUP > 3d12 > d3(hit) > CUP etc.
There are also ways to incorporate invis into block string pressure which I can go into if people are curious; if you've been watching the VSM stream you've probably seen me do it already.
So… how do you approach offense with Smoke?
Personally, I find myself fishing with max range d4 to start pressure from neutral positioning a lot, probably more than I should. But, I can't really find any other good way besides spacing. It's pretty easy to jump over a d4 and I haven't been able to AA standing 2 after a whiffed d4 and then I'm in pressure.
The only other ways I can think to initiate offense is if the enemy has weak AA to jump kick/air throw > teleport into oki pressure, or go for a b2 as they're chasing me.
I also did some thinking and I realized that due to the nature of Smoke's normals, if you're block stringing someone it's very unlikely that they'll get opened up for a full combo, and very easy to reverse the pressure. This is especially true if you get too happy with Poke 'n Smoke (trademark ). To that end, I now believe it's better to quickly finish out your block string pressure with a throw.
Take for example this situation:
you get a smart cross up into block strings and you do:
3d12 > d1 > d1 > d1 xx smoke bomb
you've done 6% chip, built maybe just under 3/4 of a bar and now the pressure is reversed.
What if you do this instead:
3d1 > 3d1 > throw
now you've done 20% damage, built maybe half a bar of meter and given yourself advantage, especially if they don't tech roll after the throw. If they do tech roll, you can still get a free invis or drift after them if you so choose.
To me, the second scenario is a MUCH better choice. But, 3d12 and 112 are the only strings that can fake someone into eating a throw. All the rest of his strings are about 0 when staggered, but with 21 and b2 and b1 the opening is so obvious that you can't follow up with another block string and are forced to poke.
But, I think that's the path that needs to be gone down. Using these obvious openings, poking, and then continuing with non poke pressure. d1 xx smoke bomb as pressure has become the enemy for me. Which brings me to some (what I think is, anyway) new tech…
At point blank range, on hit, d3 gives enough advantage to cross up your opponent and clear all of their grounded normals. This was tested with Sektor and his 6 frame d1, 6 frame standing 1, and 7 frame big-arm uppercut all failed to knock Smoke out of the air on the way up. They can, however, jump themselves and go for an aerial AA (which you can beat in a frame war), or use fast advancing AA specials (like Kano ball, flip kick, hat spin, etc.) which will beat you or at least escape if they see it coming. But, besides that I think this is a pretty big deal.
This can open up possibilities like this for block strings:
d4(hit) > b2 > d3(hit) > CUP > 3d12 > d3(hit) > CUP etc.
There are also ways to incorporate invis into block string pressure which I can go into if people are curious; if you've been watching the VSM stream you've probably seen me do it already.
So… how do you approach offense with Smoke?