General/Other - Smoke XL Robo Smoke Discussion Thread

[MajinBerserker]

As CSZ punish how? Say if I do a F2 ender into IceBomb, I'll go for the mixup, but upon pushing a button he'll WU EX Phase behind me and I whiff. Feel like if I delay it he blocks anyway. How would I punish in this situation it I read he will WU EX Phase after F2~LowIce~B3?

Acidic it isn't a problem because I end in puddle, but when I play Konjurer I can't restand. I usually end in hard KD into free Hugger, but when I follow up I whiff because of EX Phase and then I'm in the corner. Same scenario, if I read he'll WU with it what can I do to punish it?

You can't oki. Test out some different options to counter where he re-appears after the EX Phase. He's invincible during it. It's also always a guess if he's going to Phase Away/Towards. Even in the corner. Or, if he's even going to EX Phase.

 

[SaltShaker]

You can't oki. Test out some different options to counter where he re-appears after the EX Phase. He's invincible during it. It's also always a guess if he's going to Phase Away/Towards. Even in the corner. Or, if he's even going to EX Phase.

Ah ok didn't know the actual EX Phase itself had Invincibility frames. Makes sense. Ima lab it and see the best options I can use on reads. Thanks.

 

[Harlequin969]

As CSZ punish how? Say if I do a F2 ender into IceBomb, I'll go for the mixup, but upon pushing a button he'll WU EX Phase behind me and I whiff. Feel like if I delay it he blocks anyway. How would I punish in this situation it I read he will WU EX Phase after F2~LowIce~B3?

Acidic it isn't a problem because I end in puddle, but when I play Konjurer I can't restand. I usually end in hard KD into free Hugger, but when I follow up I whiff because of EX Phase and then I'm in the corner. Same scenario, if I read he'll WU with it what can I do to punish it?

From someone I've played a few times you can screw up smoke if you hit a button during the phase. If done at the right time your button will auto correct and stuff smoke because he has to recover after smoking away.

 

[LEGI0N47]

Ah ok didn't know the actual EX Phase itself had Invincibility frames. Makes sense. Ima lab it and see the best options I can use on reads. Thanks.

Yes but people are bitching about getting beat out by certain attacks before they can do anything after spending the bar. Delayed or not but I don't know specifics, and of course mashing. I've also seen a few posters mention being able to be grabbed out of phase. I have not tested to see if throwing will work on regular or EX versions but apparently it's happened.

To be honest I feel it's kinda good to hear it's working a little because for the most part people around here seem more focused on his weak area's like no armor, meter hog, and a few other things such as phase being shit. Even though I like him a lot I do think he is not as stout as the other borgs unless we're all missing it. Oh and there are a few bills that are pretty good too!

 

[REYTHEGREAT]

call me crazy but using Phase in a combo increases Smoke's damage output. @just_2swift @Pan1cMode

try it.

 

[MrSunshine]

Figured I would ask you guys because I'm having an issue fighting Smoke.

The EX Phase, is it like an instant WU or something? Any time I get some corner pressure my friend just EX Phases on WU and now I'm in the corner. Feel like I'm missibg out on something or doing something wrong. Is there a counter measure to this if I predict he will EX Phase on WU, or will he just be safe on the other side?

I use CSZ and Alien if that matters.

Just grab him bro. Bait it out and grab :/

 

[MrSunshine]

call me crazy but using Phase in a combo increases Smoke's damage output. @just_2swift @Pan1cMode

try it.

Already a thread

 

[Harlequin969]

Yes but people are bitching about getting beat out by certain attacks before they can do anything after spending the bar. Delayed or not but I don't know specifics, and of course mashing. I've also seen a few posters mention being able to be grabbed out of phase. I have not tested to see if throwing will work on regular or EX versions but apparently it's happened.

To be honest I feel it's kinda good to hear it's working a little because for the most part people around here seem more focused on his weak area's like no armor, meter hog, and a few other things such as phase being shit. Even though I like him a lot I do think he is not as stout as the other borgs unless we're all missing it. Oh and there are a few bills that are pretty good too!

Honest to god if b1 smokeball connected outside of the corner that would help so much

 

[LEGI0N47]

I have to ask why the search for the safe EX invis set ups after a spear vortex set up? If you understand how the frames work it doesn't matter if you're visable or not. NO human can react to the 50/50 when performed properly, it's a flat out guess...period. Plus your down a bar for a char that badly needs that bar to stay safe or get meaningful damage in this game. The real tech would be finding a set up to get it safely in neutral, on block, or after a damage combo so that you can truly have mind games. The only mind game any of you have created is your invisible and it's still just a 50/50 guess for the opponent, nothing has been gained except a bar of meter is gone and it looks cool. Hopefully I eat my words down the road but I don't think I will.

 

[LEGI0N47]

Honest to god if b1 smokeball connected outside of the corner that would help so much

Oh I agree completely.

 

[MajinBerserker]

I have to ask why the search for the safe EX invis set ups after a spear vortex set up? If you understand how the frames work it doesn't matter if you're visable or not. NO human can react to the 50/50 when performed properly, it's a flat out guess...period. Plus your down a bar for a char that badly needs that bar to stay safe or get meaningful damage in this game. The real tech would be finding a set up to get it safely in neutral, on block, or after a damage combo so that you can truly have mind games. The only mind game any of you have created is your invisible and it's still just a 50/50 guess for the opponent, nothing has been gained except a bar of meter is gone and it looks cool. Hopefully I eat my words down the road but I don't think I will.

Ssshhhh. Few pages back you can see some argument about this.

I'm all for saving the bar. Lol.

 

[Smarrgasm]

@SaltShaker Your best option if you want to mix him up at the same time is probably a late NJP.

This will make it where if he wakes up you NJP him on the other side and if he doesnt you still get the low overhead type mixup you are going for. Just practice the timing so that the NJP will connect on both sides. Phase has a decent amount of recovery once he reappears so if you read it the punish is not too difficult. NJP and Throw are your best friends to universally beat the move.

 

[MajinBerserker]

Ya, I got NJP'd a lot of out EX Phase, day 1.
Beans have been spilled, hehe.

 

[Reauxbot]

Every MKX character has frames traps.
First thing that comes to me is his 1112 string.
Your opponent will never know when you'll end the string, which means you can do: 1, 11, 111, 1112 and add a smoke bomb after each 1... Do a throw after you stop... Poke, do another 1, or a low/overhead mixup...
b21 is that weird side switching string that can be ducked or armored out... You can just do the b2 into nothing if you want to mess up their inputs if they try to armor... Or do b2 spear... b2 EX spear... b2 EX smoke bomb... That's an idea of MKX frames traps... Basically, strings you stop to bait the opponent or to take another advantage...
Another example... You'll end in a restand, but you're sure your opponent will jump the smoke bomb if he blocks the overhead or low mix up, you can do b1 (or b3) and not do the smoke bomb afterwise and NJP to catch their jump out... (That's maybe too deep of a Yomi and I don't know if it's realistic and what will happen if they get hit by the mix up... And that defies the purpose of the restand... But well that came in my mind and I needed to get it out...)

I am sure people will explain this better than me...

You gave me a good idea of it. Ive just never played a fighter where the whole cast has frametraps. It's just wierd in this game cause everyone mashes cr.p or k and ruins everything. Where in SF you press a button between their frametraps you get hit instead of the other way around.
Some mentioned Smoke had frametraps as if they were unique to him.
It sounds more like a guessing game in MKX actually

 

[LEGI0N47]

Ssshhhh. Few pages back you can see some argument about this.

I'm all for saving the bar. Lol.

Oh I'm fully aware and there are still people showing up posting set ups or talking about it. I just couldn't help myself because even someone of my low level understands that it's literally nothing but smoke and mirrors. Pun intended, but kind of not at the same time if that makes sense.

 

[nugava]

You gave me a good idea of it. Ive just never played a fighter where the whole cast has frametraps. It's just wierd in this game cause everyone mashes cr.p or k and ruins everything. Where in SF you press a button between their frametraps you get hit instead of the other way around.
Some mentioned Smoke had frametraps as if they were unique to him.
It sounds more like a guessing game in MKX actually

If you find your opponent is mashing too much low pokes after your block strings, you can beat that with armor moves... jump over... etc...

 

[MajinBerserker]

Oh I'm fully aware and there are still people showing up posting set ups or talking about it. I just couldn't help myself because even someone of my low level understands that it's literally nothing but smoke and mirrors. Pun intended, but kind of not at the same time if that makes sense.

Haha, I understand completely.

This weird thing happened to my training partner last night, he got hit by my 18f OH while I was visible. But he blocked my 11f Low the vortex repition before. Hmmm.

 

[Redux]

Figured I would ask you guys because I'm having an issue fighting Smoke.

The EX Phase, is it like an instant WU or something? Any time I get some corner pressure my friend just EX Phases on WU and now I'm in the corner. Feel like I'm missibg out on something or doing something wrong. Is there a counter measure to this if I predict he will EX Phase on WU, or will he just be safe on the other side?

I use CSZ and Alien if that matters.

have you tried grabbing as smoke comes out of fade

 

[SaltShaker]

Yall guys have been a ton of help! I can definitely get it on a read now, which is the most important thing to me. Thanks again!

 

[jokey77]

Guys, I would be interested in your experience!

How does f4 trade with pokes? I have had more success than I propably should.

After frametraps (1112, 113, 21, f43) I started doing f4.

Now f4 has a start-up of 10f. Subtract 2f because of the frametrap. Now the fastest pokes come out after 6f, so there should be a 2f window. It might take 1-2 f to release block before poking. Thus f4 beating pokes after a +2-frametrap seems to make sense. Yet I think that the traveltime of f4 must be taken into account too, as all the frametrap strings have pushback. I really dont know if f4 beats pokes. It might very well be a matter of hit- & hurtboxes.

F4 versus pokes... Whats your experience?

 

[Smarrgasm]

Something ive been working on using now is more 21 if i ever have someone knocked down.

This string is fast enough to stuff a lot of armor and if they simply dont wake up you are at +2 which with some conditioning should open up your mixups.

The only real knockdowns though i get come from throw or something like F213 so this might not come in handy often but its there.

 

[Scott The Scot]

Guys, I would be interested in your experience!

How does f4 trade with pokes? I have had more success than I propably should.

After frametraps (1112, 113, 21, f43) I started doing f4.

Now f4 has a start-up of 10f. Subtract 2f because of the frametrap. Now the fastest pokes come out after 6f, so there should be a 2f window. It might take 1-2 f to release block before poking. Thus f4 beating pokes after a +2-frametrap seems to make sense. Yet I think that the traveltime of f4 must be taken into account too, as all the frametrap strings have pushback. I really dont know if f4 beats pokes. It might very well be a matter of hit- & hurtboxes.

F4 versus pokes... Whats your experience?

I don't use F4 really after being +2 unless I think the person will do a normal at 9 frames or more. If I think they are going to poke after me being +2 I typically stuff it on a read with D1 or if I need to mix up the meta a little I wait for the poke then use F4D1 and hitconfirm if they're mashing or not respecting my advantage.

 

[Scott The Scot]

Something ive been working on using now is more 21 if i ever have someone knocked down.

This string is fast enough to stuff a lot of armor and if they simply dont wake up you are at +2 which with some conditioning should open up your mixups.

The only real knockdowns though i get come from throw or something like F213 so this might not come in handy often but its there.

I'm going to try and implement this in my game, this seems pretty useful actually.

 

[MajinBerserker]

I use F213 a lot, as well, if I go for a knock down, due to its high hit advantage. Thus far, I've just gone for the 50/50 (if I see they have no meter for armor) or a throw. 21- I'm listening.

@jokey77 I've gone with F4 after EX Smoke Bomb, on block. So far, I've really only used d1/d3 after some of those strings you've listed. This early on, I don't expect opponents to respect the F4, so I just go Smoke's quickest poke route.
I use F4 moreso in neutral, at this time.

 

[Red Hood MKX]

Umm... There's more ppl here talking about the usefulness of invis than not , ur clearly mistaken , ur only posting here to troll and u give nothing that helps the smoke forum

Speaking of invisibility vortex i need some help with it bro you seem to know how to do it consistently.

I cant seem to jail them after i do ji2 ex invisibility they poke me out before i can do the f13 string. Sometimes it does jail but i would like to work consistently everytime any advice would help