Why do so many suddenly dislike the level of chip damage?

[DarksydeDash]

Because people don't play unbreakable. B)

 

[Enexemander]

Because people don't play unbreakable. B)

Unbreakable, Blood God, or any variation of Predator (though he only gets reduced chip, I think?)

 

[exflyingbooty]

That's the whole point of chip. If the game rewards a majority defensive play style, then neither player is really obligated to attack, since defending is better. Obviously that would be really boring. The only thing you're guaranteed on most blockstrings is chip. The aggressor deserves that much for taking initiative.

So I'm sure some people complain that it doesn't reward defensive play, but that's a terrible argument because that would just be boring. Sort of like fighting Unbreakable on Very Hard AI.

I'm sorry, can you react to an 11 frame overhead or a 10 frame low? Can you constantly read a jump in punch into throw? Trust me, nobody should struggle with opening anyone up in this game especially with all the standing resets, stupidly long block strings from some characters(i'm not against chip damage, i'm against chip damage from safe mixups that can possibly lead into longer block strings)

Even if there was no chip damage at all trust me, this game would not be defensive simply due to how all the mechanics work.

 

[STK]

The damage of chip does not bother me as much as dying from chip. Since i got in the FGC i thought dying from chip even though im making the right reads by blocking low or high was foolish. One reason im kinda hype for SF5. Also a reason i play Tekken, if you want to kill me you have to open me up.

 

[Trauma_and_Pain]

I'm sorry, can you react to an 11 frame overhead or a 10 frame low? Can you constantly read a jump in punch into throw? Trust me, nobody should struggle with opening anyone up in this game especially with all the standing resets, stupidly long block strings from some characters(i'm not against chip damage, i'm against chip damage from safe mixups that can possibly lead into longer block strings)

Even if there was no chip damage at all trust me, this game would not be defensive simply due to how all the mechanics work.

You're rebutting an argument I never made. Chip is a contributing factor in encouraging aggression; not the only one.

 

[Hidan]

1) I play Jason
2) In my offline scene 5 ppl play KL, D'V, GM, SC(HF) and Goro

Against any of them I'm forced to spend a decent amount of time blocking while playing.

So, considering my opinion has some value on this blocking issue, CHIP IS FINE.

And don't bash MK9 on this matter.
It shows that you never got good in it. Also it's a 2011 game, this is like picking on your little brother, means you're still salty... therefore you still suck. MK9 noobs

 

[Genei Jin]

If they are not complaining about chip damage, they are complaining about:

50/50
Vortexes
Zoning (or the lack of)

 

[THTB]

Also, don't bash MK9 on this matter

I don't think anyone is really bashing MK9 on it, rather than stating that the chip is higher (from what I saw in the thread...I skimmed cuz laziness lolol).

Honestly, the amount of chip isn't bad. It's still considerably lower than MK9, where some characters literally did 7% chip off of 3 or 4-hit strings, no meter required. The main issue is how chip works in tandem with the gameplay design. Which isn't really an issue until low-life situations, so it's still not bad.

I would have liked to see a no-chip-death mechanic implemented, though. It would have fit as a small counteract to the offense in the game.

 

[PND_Ketchup]

Did someone say chip damage?

 

[GLoRToR]

One of the more common criticisms of MKX's engine tends to be that chip damage is 'too high'. I don't have a problem with anyone thinking this, for the record - I may not personally agree (IMO the chip damage in MKX is pretty much perfect), but if someone thinks that chip damage should be lower then I can at least understand where they're coming from.

What confuses me much more is that few people were particularly upset with the level of chip damage in MK9... even though it was in many scenarios stronger than chip damage in MKX. I'm thinking especially of the likes of MK9 Sonya here, where she could hit you with a blockstring that did 8-10% damage, completely meterless, and still not have any disadvantage on block or leaving any sort of gaps to exploit. How many characters in MKX can boast the same without resorting to meter? A handful of RC-centric characters can do similar, granted, but they at least have stamina to hinder them and prevent them from simply being able to do it again, and again, and again... (also they're much harder to perform)

It just seems odd that strong chip damage is considered a big problem now when it very rarely was for MK9.

I rather have even higher chip than stupidly high block advantage and 50/50 loops. MKX is full of bullshit, block damage is not one of them.

 

[OnlineSkunk]

I'm fine with cheap damage as long as all armored launcher/moves that leave you plus 9,000 on block becomes unsafe at least -15 and 50/50 are toned down. . . . .from more than a 50/50 to just regular 50/50 at least MK9 didn't have so many low and high and very few even have a command grab.

 

[DreadKnight1]

I don't like the chip damage of other characters like a list cage,he has 3 strings that SRC into each other and are guaranteed on block because of the block adv. the total number of hits is 9 (333SRC 114SRC 214) which does way more chip and any of raidens Sparks strings, is 0 on block and builds more meter YET raidens strings were nerfed to shit. It's more the fact that some characters were allowed to have ridiculous chip and pressure and others weren't-the mains of characters who don't ie not cage,Tanya and Lao players don't like fighting characters who do a tonne of chip.

 

[Lumpymoomilk]

Liu Kang and Dvorah make me need to jump around like an idiot so I don't die from chip alone.

 

[xInfra Deadx]

I don't think anyone is really bashing MK9 on it, rather than stating that the chip is higher (from what I saw in the thread...I skimmed cuz laziness lolol).

Honestly, the amount of chip isn't bad. It's still considerably lower than MK9, where some characters literally did 7% chip off of 3 or 4-hit strings, no meter required. The main issue is how chip works in tandem with the gameplay design. Which isn't really an issue until low-life situations, so it's still not bad.

I would have liked to see a no-chip-death mechanic implemented, though. It would have fit as a small counteract to the offense in the game.

Shinnok says hi.

 

[THTB]

Shinnok says hi.

What, his chip?

 

[GAV]

There are a lot more people on opposite ends than I ever would have thought.

I like to rush-down, but I really do try to see things from the other side of the spectrum.

This awareness of difference in perspectives came when players wanted breakers to cost less. Players that want it to cost less don't play combo dependent styles. Players with combo-heavy styles probably hate that they're even in there. Those that can see both sides see its designed the best way it could be.

Turtling style players hate chip damage because they feel they should be rewarded for defending skillfully. Rush-down players love it because they feel that the risks they take by attacking should be rewarded. So, where is the happy medium where most players will be OK with it? I think MKX's patches serve as a showcase for NRS's best attempts.

I have concluded that making extremists happy on either side of the spectrum is a lost cause.

 

[JerzeyReign]

I think chip should only happen on special or enhanced (LK's flame first for example) type of blocked hits. Regular strings shouldn't have any chip. Opponent blocking? Throw his ass. Isn't that the reason for throws?

Getting punished for being a good defensive player is a disservice and really only promotes downhill play.

This game would be even better if it was balanced between offense and defense.

 

[Wetdoba]

Because its kind of bullshit winning without actually opening your opponent up. MKX doesn't reward blocking at all, if you correctly block your opponents retarded ass pressure then congrats, you just gave them a free bar or 2 of special meter for armor they can use the second you stop blocking. So against characters like Tanya you take 40% chip while she builds multiple bars of meter, then she just does EX rekkas the second you can press somethiing because she has full bars and you dont have shit, then its back to blocking for the next 10 seconds while she builds more meter and does a combos worth of damage on you even though you just blocked everything. It wouldn't be as bad if you at the very least couldn't die from chip, but you can. You just do your offense without it mattering if they block or not because your doing damage either way, hell, since meter is the best thing you can have in theis game its probably better if your opponent blocks because if they dont then they get meter LOL. Its as easy as it gets.

Thank god for SFV, no more scrub ass tactics

 

[Rude]

Because its kind of bullshit winning without actually opening your opponent up. MKX doesn't reward blocking at all, if you correctly block your opponents retarded ass pressure then congrats, you just gave them a free bar or 2 of special meter for armor they can use the second you stop blocking. So against characters like Tanya you take 40% chip while she builds multiple bars of meter, then she just does EX rekkas the second you can press somethiing because she has full bars and you dont have shit, then its back to blocking for the next 10 seconds while she builds more meter and does a combos worth of damage on you even though you just blocked everything. It wouldn't be as bad if you at the very least couldn't die from chip, but you can. You just do your offense without it mattering if they block or not because your doing damage either way, hell, since meter is the best thing you can have in theis game its probably better if your opponent blocks because if they dont then they get meter LOL. Its as easy as it gets.

Thank god for SFV, no more scrub ass tactics

This is a shitty post. Fitting for a terrible thread.

First we complain about 50/50s
(As if they never existed in fighting games)

Then we complain about vortexes
(Because vortex characters haven't existed basically forever)

Now chip damage. Wow. I'll keep it simple: MK X is a fast paced game. Offense is rewarded. That said, most characters with looping pressure have some kind of window to armor or backdash on a read. Pay attention to that last part: on a read.

So either get better at the game...or stop playing it. Chip damage is fine in this game.

 

[Wetdoba]

This is a shitty post. Fitting for a terrible thread.

First we complain about 50/50s
(As if they never existed in fighting games)

Then we complain about vortexes
(Because vortex characters haven't existed basically forever)

Now chip damage. Wow. I'll keep it simple: MK X is a fast paced game. Offense is rewarded. That said, most characters with looping pressure have some kind of window to armor or backdash on a read. Pay attention to that last part: on a read.

So either get better at the game...or stop playing it. Chip damage is fine in this game.

So the looping pressure character has full advantage the entire time building meter and doing chip while the person on defense has to work harder blocking it all, then to get out you have to spend resources (meter or stamina) on a read, when your opponent can easily make that read to and put you right back in. So looping pressure is at full advantage until both players go to even grounds when they both can make a read. So being even on that one moment makes it even the overall?

And btw, a game can still be fast paced and reward multiple playstyles including defensive play, MKX just isn't that game

 

[Ashenar]

One of the more common criticisms of MKX's engine tends to be that chip damage is 'too high'. I don't have a problem with anyone thinking this, for the record - I may not personally agree (IMO the chip damage in MKX is pretty much perfect), but if someone thinks that chip damage should be lower then I can at least understand where they're coming from.

What confuses me much more is that few people were particularly upset with the level of chip damage in MK9... even though it was in many scenarios stronger than chip damage in MKX. I'm thinking especially of the likes of MK9 Sonya here, where she could hit you with a blockstring that did 8-10% damage, completely meterless, and still not have any disadvantage on block or leaving any sort of gaps to exploit. How many characters in MKX can boast the same without resorting to meter? A handful of RC-centric characters can do similar, granted, but they at least have stamina to hinder them and prevent them from simply being able to do it again, and again, and again... (also they're much harder to perform)

It just seems odd that strong chip damage is considered a big problem now when it very rarely was for MK9.

because defensive play gets negated the whole time by chip into plus frames.

 

[GAV]

Thank god for SFV, no more scrub ass tactics

I'll just let this quote sit here - all alone - by itself...

...for everyone to judge.

 

[Wetdoba]

I'll just let this quote sit here - all alone - by itself...

...for everyone to judge.

No crouch teching, no chip out deaths so it rewards good defense, teching grabs isnt a 50-50, universal anti airs that can be done on reaction, no more unblockables with armor now that focus attacks are out, and blocking an invincible DP gives a free crush counter on the next hit so people wont just mash DPs all day, and no more insanely long knockdowns to prevent vortexing. They took everything scrubby about SF4 and took it out in favor of promoting a strong footsie based neutral game that will reward the better player every time, and everyone that has played t so far has said this too. So I'm not sure what you are trying to get at and if you have evidence that says otherwaise I'd love to hear it. I can't wait for that game. I was hoping before MKX that NRS would learn from the few scrubby things in Injustice that made it insane, the big three being vortexing, 50-50s, and jumping, but all three of those are still present in MKX and turned up to 11. I have lots of fun playing MKX, really only because of Ferra Torr at this point, but SFV is going to be the biggest breath of fresh air in the FGC

 

[GAV]

No crouch teching, no chip out deaths so it rewards good defense, teching grabs isnt a 50-50, universal anti airs that can be done on reaction, no more unblockables with armor now that focus attacks are out, and blocking an invincible DP gives a free crush counter on the next hit so people wont just mash DPs all day, and no more insanely long knockdowns to prevent vortexing. They took everything scrubby about SF4 and took it out in favor of promoting a strong footsie based neutral game that will reward the better player every time, and everyone that has played t so far has said this too. So I'm not sure what you are trying to get at and if you have evidence that says otherwaise I'd love to hear it. I can't wait for that game. I was hoping before MKX that NRS would learn from the few scrubby things in Injustice that made it insane, the big three being vortexing, 50-50s, and jumping, but all three of those are still present in MKX and turned up to 11. I have lots of fun playing MKX, really only because of Ferra Torr at this point, but SFV is going to be the biggest breath of fresh air in the FGC

It has nothing to do with SFV. Its an indictment on how you view MKX. NRS could never please the extremists on either end of the spectrum and your post illustrates the attitude of an extremist.

This thread is very good because those that aren't extremists or up/down-players have a medium to see the blind spots of others.

Just to add, one unbalanced post doesn't make you a bad poster - but I think you do have a blind spot.

 

[Kingshootahz]

I don't like the chip damage of other characters like a list cage,he has 3 strings that SRC into each other and are guaranteed on block because of the block adv. the total number of hits is 9 (333SRC 114SRC 214) which does way more chip and any of raidens Sparks strings, is 0 on block and builds more meter YET raidens strings were nerfed to shit. It's more the fact that some characters were allowed to have ridiculous chip and pressure and others weren't-the mains of characters who don't ie not cage,Tanya and Lao players don't like fighting characters who do a tonne of chip.

I would say johnny needs it.

And this game does reward defensive players,but being a defensive player doesn't mean blocking endlessly or running away it means being patient knowing the opponent blowing up their plus heavy pressure by knowing the gaps and what to do with them, basically you can't be a defensive player by just blocking or doing a high low motion with it to hope you block an incoming mixup, you gotta adapt quick and be on your toes to punish the overly aggressive players.