General/Other - Erron Black What kind of changes would you like to see for erron in kp2?

[CaptainCM]

If they do consider buffs/changes for Erron, these would be perfect. When u say faster SOS1 do u mean he exits the stance faster?

Yep. I'd like transitions to SOS and out of it to be as seemless as possible. Aside from practicality, SOS1 animation doesn't even look cool right now. "Ok, I GUESS I'll stand normally, ugh "

 

[Sultani]

I wanna see him get badly burned in a fire while stryker watches and then come back with a mask and shoot gas balls all over and spin people around really fast and also swing hooks.

 

[dwz_mk9]

I’ve noticed a lot of people in this thread bringing up the fact that you can jump out of F1,3 ex sand grenade and B3,3 ex sand grenade. I have a semi solution for the time being. Instead of doing F1, 3 ex sand grenade, just do F1 ex sand grenade? You can’t jump out of it! Yes, you can still armor through it and I even tested myself if I could react to it every time. Sometimes I couldn’t and in the heat of the match it happens so fast that it would almost be impossible to react to. And if it lands, it still juggles into good damage! For the low, you can do B3, 2 ex sand grenade. You can’t jump or reversal out of it and same principle as before. If it lands, juggle into damage! This is probably already known but I thought I would just bring it up.

 

[Thanilla Ice]

I’ve noticed a lot of people in this thread bringing up the fact that you can jump out of F1,3 ex sand grenade and B3,3 ex sand grenade. I have a semi solution for the time being. Instead of doing F1, 3 ex sand grenade, just do F1 ex sand grenade? You can’t jump out of it! Yes, you can still armor through it and I even tested myself if I could react to it every time. Sometimes I couldn’t and in the heat of the match it happens so fast that it would almost be impossible to react to. And if it lands, it still juggles into good damage! For the low, you can do B3, 2 ex sand grenade. You can’t jump or reversal out of it and same principle as before. If it lands, juggle into damage! This is probably already known but I thought I would just bring it up.

pretty cool bro did not know that

 

[YoloRoll1stHit]

I saw someone said this and I agree:
"Give him a new string 2112212212112121212121221122112121, which he can tick throw at any point of that"

 

[21122]

I don't think Erron needs any buffs/nerfs, but oh well, might as well have some fun.


Gunslinger:
slightly faster SOS1
last bullet of SOS3 doesn't hit full screen
SOS2 damage scales as 1 hit in combos

Marksman:
+3 on 21122~GC (no changes to other GCs)
faster start up and backwalk on db1 (more evasive)
df1 damage 8% (down from 10%)
db2 -6 on block (same pushback)

Outlaw:
bugfix on f3 hitting two times
b211 better recovery & leaves opponent closer on hit (for use in some combos, considering db4 changes below)
14 frames startup on db4 (less prone to armor breaks and more consistent against jump-ins on wakeup)
less advantage on db4 on hit (max range dash b32u1 won't combo - run cancel needed)


General changes:
32 - faster startup on second hit
21122 - last hit -3 on block
f4 - less pushback
EX bf4 - +5 on hit
generic throw - 0 on hit

Spoiler: This is how I feel about these changes

21122 -3...why? I see no good reason at all for that to go from -1 to -3. Unless they make ex-sand more + on block no thx.

 

[CaptainCM]

21122 -3...why? I see no good reason at all for that to go from -1 to -3. Unless they make ex-sand more + on block no thx.

Then maybe Marksman will appeal to you? I mentioned 21122~GC being +3 for this exact reason.

 

[STRYKIE]

Then maybe Marksman will appeal to you? I mentioned 21122~GC being +3 for this exact reason.

That's not how you improve a variation.

 

[CaptainCM]

That's not how you improve a variation.

True, hence why I specifically called them "changes" instead of improvements/buffs. The general idea was to fresh things up, not to make EB better. I actually don't want NRS to change anything about him.

 

[The Farmer]

I really think he is perfect, please do not tempt NRS to fumble with our character. The last thing we need is them to go on a riff and tweak other shit.

 

[Azmodeus]

True, hence why I specifically called them "changes" instead of improvements/buffs. The general idea was to fresh things up, not to make EB better. I actually don't want NRS to change anything about him.

So lemme get this straight. You want a perfectly good character whom you acknowledged didn't need buffs to get changed to get "freshened up" by receiving changes? The whole "freshened up" thing just doesn't make any sense.

 

[UsedForGlue]

Decent mid.

But besides that:

GENERAL:
Opponents can't currently run through the Caltrops but they can run while standing on the Caltrops, the opponent shouldn't able to run off the caltrops either.

Throw should have at least slightly advantage.

OUTLAW:
Faster start up on MB Sand Toss, as this is his only version to go to when you need an armoured option, and even when you do use it, more often than not, it can be armour broken by regular block strings.

F3 2+4 should be -5 or -6.

MARKSMAN:
Both DB1 and DF1 Gun shots should be mid hitting.
Both DB1 and DF1 Gun shot should start up and recover slightly quicker.

 

[Barrogh]

Opponents can't currently run through the Caltrops but they can run while standing on the Caltrops, the opponent shouldn't able to run off the caltrops either.

I'd say that it should be a bit more complicated than that. My take:
Opponent that stands on the ground and is being affected by caltrops (aka standing on them) should only be able to run away from middle of the pile, not towards it. This is to prevent them from becoming sticky trap of doom while still reliably preventing opponent from running through them towards you.

Due to screwed up run mechanics of MKX this means that either caltrops must disable front dashing while standing where they are supposed to affect you, or the "middle" of a trap should include more than just a single point in the middle of it. Alternatively, dashes that are done from behind "middle point" are not cancellable into run.

This is to avoid situation when you stand at the far edge of the trap, dash forward, cover most of the trap with your dash startup animation and then cancel into run, negating proposed change.

 

[Crathen]

Decent mid.

But besides that:

GENERAL:
Opponents can't currently run through the Caltrops but they can run while standing on the Caltrops, the opponent shouldn't able to run off the caltrops either.

Throw should have at least slightly advantage.

OUTLAW:
Faster start up on MB Sand Toss, as this is his only version to go to when you need an armoured option, and even when you do use it, more often than not, it can be armour broken by regular block strings.

F3 2+4 should be -5 or -6.

MARKSMAN:
Both DB1 and DF1 Gun shots should be mid hitting.
Both DB1 and DF1 Gun shot should start up and recover slightly quicker.

Caltrops could just get a buff and whenever opponent goes on them they lose 1 bar of stamina , but that could be overkill in the corner setups. I think they're fine as they are now

The decent mid is pretty much fundamental , he deserves f24 to be 9 or 10 frames or make b1 a mid w good hitbox.

Throw being advantage being a quality of life buff makes sense.

As for the faster EX sand toss , he doesn't NEED it but even making it faster in the current meta you'd need something around 7-8 frames on startup wich seems dumb imo , if it restanded i'd be fine.

f3 1+3 to be safe is just another quality of life change , f24 is equally fast in startup and has better reward , not needed.

Marksman db1 hitting mid would be pretty dumb , better give the variation better rifle cancels and a bit faster startup + less recovery on db1 just to fresh him up , maybe df1 to have less recovery frames if not cancelled.

I said my opinions in a previous post on what i feel he needs to be a top competition character , pretty much a better base version of the character w variations adding a little more flavour than now.

 

[The_SNKE]

No wonder the EB community is considered a bunch of downplayers. Some of you guys are truly stupid

Ex Slide is NOT -3 on hit you goddamn morons.

Set your practice dummy to jump, do ex slide and hold up. You see how Erron jumps first? That means he's advantage. Even if you have them wakeup, you can clearly move before the wakeup comes out.

This is mainly towards the extremely uninformed OP and the ones that agreed. Some of you guys were alright so I won't be unfair.

I wouldn't normally be upset but it's people like this that spread BS "knowledge" and convince others something is shit when it's clearly not. You're the imbecile this time I'm afraid.

Also the game's been out for like 9 months, so no excuse for not testing shit properly.

 

[Forbidden_Donut]

The buff requests in the OP are so ridiculous. I can't believe people are convinced this character needs buffs. He's already amazing. He doesn't need any buffs or any nerfs. This is as bad as the grand Master forums. Unless you're asking for fixes, then I'm sorry, you simply don't know your own character and the potential he has (see sonic fox).

Plus 14 on tackle "So they at least have to respect something"??? Lol dude that guarantees a fifty fifty. They specifically nerfed this aspect of his game because of how broken it was

No top 10 character in this game needs buffs. And erron black is top 10.

 

[Bomborge]

The buff requests in the OP are so ridiculous. I can't believe people are convinced this character needs buffs. He's already amazing. He doesn't need any buffs or any nerfs. This is as bad as the grand Master forums. Unless you're asking for fixes, then I'm sorry, you simply don't know your own character and the potential he has (see sonic fox).

Plus 14 on tackle "So they at least have to respect something"??? Lol dude that guarantees a fifty fifty. They specifically nerfed this aspect of his game because of how broken it was

No top 10 character in this game needs buffs. And erron black is top 10.

Stop. He hasn't been top 10 for a very long time. Don't talk to us about how uninformed we are when you clearly have no idea what you're talking about. SonicFox has said before that Erron Black actually held him back and if you would watch any recent tourneys, you would know he hasn't used Erron in a long time.

 

[Crathen]

No wonder the EB community is considered a bunch of downplayers. Some of you guys are truly stupid

Ex Slide is NOT -3 on hit you goddamn morons.

Set your practice dummy to jump, do ex slide and hold up. You see how Erron jumps first? That means he's advantage. Even if you have them wakeup, you can clearly move before the wakeup comes out.

This is mainly towards the extremely uninformed OP and the ones that agreed. Some of you guys were alright so I won't be unfair.

I wouldn't normally be upset but it's people like this that spread BS "knowledge" and convince others something is shit when it's clearly not. You're the imbecile this time I'm afraid.

Also the game's been out for like 9 months, so no excuse for not testing shit properly.

Actually you are wrong because you are not testing stuff right and you want to blow up Erron players without a clue of what are you talking about.

He's definately -3 or neutral because that's the frame the opponent can wake up , try it w Reptile EX slide wich is 6 frames startup ( and has some distance to cover before it hits him ) and try to trade w a d1 , it's hard to even make it trade and yes if they don't wakeup Erron is at very slight advantage... so? What about when the 2nd shot whiffs because they're airborne and he's punishable ON HIT .

Test your stuff instead of trying to cop this forum.

@Forbidden_Donut

Cmd grab risk reward is bad end of story being - after riskying getting buffer armored / backdashed you gotta read them not waking up and even then if you go for a 50 50 and they jump you aint converting shit because f1 / b3 pushback the opponent out of even EX sand granade range if you ever saw the hit reaction on airborne opponents , so you go for 21122 wich goes back to getting wakeup punished or tickthrow risk reward guessing game.

For once would you guys tell me what makes him top 10? He def is not top 10 because of f1 / b3 nor 21122 / cmd grab , so what?

 

[Barrogh]

...tickthrow risk reward guessing game.

You mean all risk, no reward OS game?

Just stop it already, 2 is you mid combo string and maybe footsie string, nothing more. Unless NRS are set to change the way reversals work, that's it.

 

[x-azeez]

Since everyone is doing it , i firgured i can aswell , i only want erron to have a few things if its possible , (esp for marksman)

Marksman : 21122 db2 is a true block string ,
db2 is 17f startup ( down from 29 ) and a faster db1 and make it less unsafe

Universal.

Ex slide is now +28 on hit ( its -3 on hit as of now)

Ex slide is 14 frames on startup ( down from 17)

Sand tackle (dbf2) is +14 on hit so they could atleast respect something

F3 xx special to combo on all characters ( it doesn't on some)

B32u1 to be 23 rec frames so he can land njp easier ( its only +1% more but it gives corner carry)

More hitstun on f13 ex sg so they cant jump out for free but they can still armor. ( it still hits them it will knock them down and they can roll out and be 0 in the neutral)

Dream buff would be : ex sg to be +9 or +8 on block. ( so he could atleast have something guranteed after it on block)

Also caltrops should not count as first hit bonus.

Gunslinger Changes:

SOS2: Fix hitbox. the move is listed as Mid, but whiff on crouching opponent.

SOS1: Slightly faster

SOS3: Now he has 2 Options to choose from:

1. Shoots 4 bullets and be -12

2. Shoots 5 bullets and be neutral on block. (( Gap between 4th & 5th bullet )) (( 5th bullet input is pressing 3 before the 5th bullets ))

SOS4: -12 on block ( from -14 )

Money Shot ( DF1): 20 startup frames ( from 28 )

Universal Change:

Reduce recovery on both caltrops & EX caltrops

 

[ienjoywinning]

The buff requests in the OP are so ridiculous. I can't believe people are convinced this character needs buffs. He's already amazing. He doesn't need any buffs or any nerfs. This is as bad as the grand Master forums. Unless you're asking for fixes, then I'm sorry, you simply don't know your own character and the potential he has (see sonic fox).

Plus 14 on tackle "So they at least have to respect something"??? Lol dude that guarantees a fifty fifty. They specifically nerfed this aspect of his game because of how broken it was

No top 10 character in this game needs buffs. And erron black is top 10.

He is at an disadvantage you idiot , he is at a slight adv if they dont wakeup and lol no that wasn't what made him broken , people had no idea about how many weaknesses this character has , people had no idea that you could armor os untill very late and thats what orignally made him "op" and thats what was the nerf for , that you could tick throw at any point and they have to guess ( and now they dont) making it +14 would actually give marksman and gunslinger good enders.

 

[x-azeez]

He is at an disadvantage you idiot , he is at a slight adv if they dont wakeup and lol no that wasn't what made him broken , people had no idea about how many weaknesses this character has , people had no idea that you could armor os untill very late and thats what orignally made him "op" and thats what was the nerf for , that you could tick throw at any point and they have to guess ( and now they dont) making it +14 would actually give marksman and gunslinger good enders.

I love erron black, especially gunslinger, but the tackle should be between +2 to +4 no more than that.

 

[Forbidden_Donut]

Jesus Christ.. So much misinformation and delusion in this thread. I play one of the best erron Black's in the world literally on a weekly basis, @DabJr 187 and he agrees that eb is perfect. If you guys were asking for fixes or some small touches I'd understand, but you guys want him to be broken. You guys are just free and can't win with a good character. If eb is so bad, play dab Jr and expose erron Black's flaws.. I guarantee every one of you will be body bagged..

 

[Bomborge]

Jesus Christ.. So much misinformation and delusion in this thread. I play one of the best erron Black's in the world literally on a weekly basis, @DabJr 187 and he agrees that eb is perfect. If you guys were asking for fixes or some small touches I'd understand, but you guys want him to be broken. You guys are just free and can't win with a good character. If eb is so bad, play dab Jr and expose erron Black's flaws.. I guarantee every one of you will be body bagged..

Yeah, you're right. As soon as you leave this thread, the misinformation will be gone. He doesn't need major buffs, maybe just some minor stuff. But you're absolutely delusional if you think he is top 10 anymore.

 

[DabJr 187]

Yeah, you're right. As soon as you leave this thread, the misinformation will be gone. He doesn't need major buffs, maybe just some minor stuff. But you're absolutely delusional if you think he is top 10 anymore.

I told Forbidden Donut and everyone in my local when they asked what I think Erron needs buffs on is for F132 to be -7 so he can't get full combo punished off his over head. There's no need for his slide to be hella plus, command grab to be hella plus which it still is plus btw, he doesn't need anything other than f132 to be safe and atleast in my opinion he'll be top 10. Other than that me, Forbidden Donut, Snke, and the rest of my scene at BLTB all came to agree he's definitely not top 10 more in the 12-15 range. Peace y'all