General/Other - Erron Black What kind of changes would you like to see for erron in kp2?

[21122]

Sandtrap is already +, its like 2-6 from what I read. They need to rebuff it to sonething like +15. I think thats fair considering how far back Erron moves.

21122 ~ SOS3 I would love it but the community will cry hard lol.

Instead they should make ex-sand plus to give Erron something guaranteed.

 

[Crathen]

Sand Trap is -2 ( meaning opponent can wake up 2 frames before you can move ) if he doesn't wake up you're around +5 wich is pretty poor considering the distance you're left at.

There are some attacks that are too easy to land, so a slight negativity is needed. I see nothing wrong with that. It's not as if those attacks were punishable; you just can't abuse them.

EX slide has average startup and can be armor broken , it's death on block , doesn't cover people jumping in the air AND it's negative when it hits , meanwhile other characters have safe launching armor that can also anti air and EX slide is fine? No sir.

Right now his worst problems comes from not having a good answer to jumps ( especially back jumps ) and lack of good mids ( and no d1 / d4 don't count ) to force some respect after frames and giving up momentum whenever you command grab is painful when the character doesn't have a super duper zoning game ( and no gunslinger isn't a great zoner ).

 

[Thanilla Ice]

So I was in practice mode with marksman and this is my hoped buff

EX-DB1 startup reduced a few frames to make it guaranteed after 21122
EX-DB1 ability to hold the towards opponent button to stop Erron Black from moving when unloading

Since EX-DB1 is +15 on block

21122 ~ EX-DB1 for days

it is possible to do 21122xxDB1(ex) on bigger hitbox opponents and you can run up and continue to combo

 

[ienjoywinning]

That's probably because EX Slide has armor. Basically, it's very easy to use, as long as your opponent is doing anything else besides blocking. Slide requires a lot of thought; EX Slide does not.

What do you mean very easy to use? Like for example lao has ex spin which gets him 32% + a hard knockdown (+25 on hit iirc) and cassie for example has ex flip kick thats 6f , safe midscreen and can lead into a vortex on hit and it also has armor , sub has a 7f slide that switches stance and is +20 something.

 

[Santa_Destroyer]

I think it's been said before but faster rifle cancles and I'm happy.

 

[Thanilla Ice]

Command Grab ends pressure, it being -2 is fair to stop Erron Blackers from abusing it on people with no meter.

Who ever compared Kotals Sunlight to Errons caltrops should quit the game, Errons caltrops doesn't heal and he can't call it anywhere on the screen. Its around 40 on startup, if you get hit by caltrops for first hit that's your fault. And the same goes for last hit.

I agree with making DB1 mid shots and faster, it's honestly a useless move right now.

F13/B33xxBF3(ex) should be a true block string, even though Erron is plus there's nothing he can do to jail the opponent.

Errons F3 should be at least plus 12 when cancelled in Marksman and the hit advantage on it should be +10 at least, its a slow move when compared to Johnnys F3 or Jax's F3. Or at least make the move 13 frames startup, it's useless in Marksman.

 

[Desperdicio]

What do you mean very easy to use? Like for example lao has ex spin which gets him 32% + a hard knockdown (+25 on hit iirc) and cassie for example has ex flip kick thats 6f , safe midscreen and can lead into a vortex on hit and it also has armor , sub has a 7f slide that switches stance and is +20 something.

You're comparing characters that have nothing in common.

Command Grab ends pressure, it being -2 is fair to stop Erron Blackers from abusing it on people with no meter.

Who ever compared Kotals Sunlight to Errons caltrops should quit the game, Errons caltrops doesn't heal and he can't call it anywhere on the screen. Its around 40 on startup, if you get hit by caltrops for first hit that's your fault. And the same goes for last hit.

I agree with making DB1 mid shots and faster, it's honestly a useless move right now.

F13/B33xxBF3(ex) should be a true block string, even though Erron is plus there's nothing he can do to jail the opponent.

Errons F3 should be at least plus 12 when cancelled in Marksman and the hit advantage on it should be +10 at least, its a slow move when compared to Johnnys F3 or Jax's F3. Or at least make the move 13 frames startup, it's useless in Marksman.

I agree with most of what you're saying. Just a few things: 1) I haven't tested jumping between F13 and EX BF3 yet, but if that's possible, that's what I'd change: people escaping the overhead starter at the cost of a bar of meter isn't that bad. 2) Marksman shouldn't have cancels that leave him at advantage on block. Jax's cancels are all negative. Johnny's F3 is a very powerful tool, but that one character has it doesn't mean that everyone else has to have it as well: each character works in its own way. 3) DB1 hitting mid and faster would make Marksman a really good zoner, and that's the last thing we need.

 

[Crathen]

I agree with most of what you're saying. Just a few things: 1) I haven't tested jumping between F13 and EX BF3 yet, but if that's possible, that's what I'd change: people escaping the overhead starter at the cost of a bar of meter isn't that bad. 2) Marksman shouldn't have cancels that leave him at advantage on block. Jax's cancels are all negative. Johnny's F3 is a very powerful tool, but that one character has it doesn't mean that everyone else has to have it as well: each character works in its own way. 3) DB1 hitting mid and faster would make Marksman a really good zoner, and that's the last thing we need.

You're neglecting that things like Jax HW cancels are slighly minus and the character has a 6 frame high jab and a 7 frame d1 along with all variety of armor ( EX gotcha fast , safe on block , covers jumps or Overhead dash punch launches , fast , has range / EX rising knee fast low profiling wakeup / Wrestler get a command grab , more advantageous on hit than Errons ) , he has always safe 50/50s and way better footsies w f21 , f3 and better air game w j1.

You want Erron to stay "honest" but the reality is that he's a weak character as in inconsistent , literally his best asset is that he has a 50/50 and that's not something special when all the top tiers outfootsie him , have better offence , have better defence , have better zoning , so you're essentially confident on your skill to win and that's fine but he has an hard time vs a lot of the cast , so you're struggling for nothing other than character loyalty when you can pick better characters and have more chances to win.

He's fun to play but he isn't competitive right now.

( db1 in marksman being a mid would be dumb lol )

 

[Onilordasmodeus]

How do we know that they are "changing" anything? Not that I don't think some tweaks won't happen, but what makes people think that they will?

 

[Desperdicio]

You're neglecting that things like Jax HW cancels are slighly minus and the character has a 6 frame high jab and a 7 frame d1 along with all variety of armor ( EX gotcha fast , safe on block , covers jumps or Overhead dash punch launches , fast , has range / EX rising knee fast low profiling wakeup / Wrestler get a command grab , more advantageous on hit than Errons ) , he has always safe 50/50s and way better footsies w f21 , f3 and better air game w j1.

You want Erron to stay "honest" but the reality is that he's a weak character as in inconsistent , literally his best asset is that he has a 50/50 and that's not something special when all the top tiers outfootsie him , have better offence , have better defence , have better zoning , so you're essentially confident on your skill to win and that's fine but he has an hard time vs a lot of the cast , so you're struggling for nothing other than character loyalty when you can pick better characters and have more chances to win.

He's fun to play but he isn't competitive right now.

( db1 in marksman being a mid would be dumb lol )

I agree that he isn't as good as the best characters right now, but that's natural, because they're just a bunch. He's at the same level as the majority of the cast, which is no little thing.

What safe 50/50s does Jax have?

 

[Crathen]

How do we know that they are "changing" anything? Not that I don't think some tweaks won't happen, but what makes people think that they will?

No one knows , i guess it's a fun thread to see what people would like changed about their characters , but ultimately it's up to NRS what and if they want to patch with KP2 characters incoming.

Some may also drop or take a new spin with him depending on what gets touched , personally if he stays the same , i'm probably going to make him a side character.

@Desperdicio Jax has b3xxcancel ( low ) or b2xxEX dash punch / cancel ( overhead , on block unsafe specials don't come out , basically an option selecting normal ) , imo if he stays the same and other characters end up being buffed , he'd be easily bottom 10 , wich doesn't mean he's a bad character , just not competitive enough

 

[Desperdicio]

How do we know that they are "changing" anything? Not that I don't think some tweaks won't happen, but what makes people think that they will?

I think it has already been announced. And then again it's NRS: they won't release more DLC without like one patch and six hotfixes per character released.

 

[Thanilla Ice]

I agree with most of what you're saying. Just a few things: 1) I haven't tested jumping between F13 and EX BF3 yet, but if that's possible, that's what I'd change: people escaping the overhead starter at the cost of a bar of meter isn't that bad. 2) Marksman shouldn't have cancels that leave him at advantage on block. Jax's cancels are all negative. Johnny's F3 is a very powerful tool, but that one character has it doesn't mean that everyone else has to have it as well: each character works in its own way. 3) DB1 hitting mid and faster would make Marksman a really good zoner, and that's the last thing we need.

You're right about the F3 on block, but I still think that it needs to be 13 frame startup and at least +14 on hit so I can actually combo off it after using it. It could be a good move to stop anybody from poking after EX SG

 

[Desperdicio]

@Desperdicio Jax has b3xxcancel ( low ) or b2xxEX dash punch / cancel ( overhead , on block unsafe specials don't come out , basically an option selecting normal ) , imo if he stays the same and other characters end up being buffed , he'd be easily bottom 10 , wich doesn't mean he's a bad character , just not competitive enough

I agree: if they buff other characters besides the real bottom tier, he'll need some buffs as well; otherwise, they'll just be changing the steps of the ladder. When you say unsafe specials don't come out on block, is that a general rule or just for B2 into EX Dash Punch?

 

[Thanilla Ice]

You want Erron to stay "honest" but the reality is that he's a weak character as in inconsistent , literally his best asset is that he has a 50/50 and that's not something special when all the top tiers outfootsie him , have better offence , have better defence , have better zoning , so you're essentially confident on your skill to win and that's fine but he has an hard time vs a lot of the cast , so you're struggling for nothing other than character loyalty when you can pick better characters and have more chances to win.

He's fun to play but he isn't competitive right now.

( db1 in marksman being a mid would be dumb lol )

Why would making db1 a mid dumb? It would bring some use to the move as it's a high, extremely slow, and easy to punish.

Also are u forgetting about 21122? That string alone makes the character. Don't down play Erron, I'd put him at the top of mid tier if I made a list.

 

[Desperdicio]

Why would making db1 a mid dumb? It would bring some use to the move as it's a high, extremely slow, and easy to punish.

Also are u forgetting about 21122? That string alone makes the character. Don't down play Erron, I'd put him at the top of mid tier if I made a list.

If DB1 were a mid, the opponent would have a very hard time approaching, and they'd have lost a lot of health by chip damage by the time they made it. Then they would have to deal with Erron's pressure, which is the area at which he currently excels. Most projectiles in the game are high.

It'd make DB1 a move that you could use from fullscreen without thinking about the consequences, because it'd always go in your favor.

 

[ienjoywinning]

Why would making db1 a mid dumb? It would bring some use to the move as it's a high, extremely slow, and easy to punish.

Also are u forgetting about 21122? That string alone makes the character. Don't down play Erron, I'd put him at the top of mid tier if I made a list.

Are you forgetting that you can armor option select 21122 and armor everytime when he cancels to tacke or anything before the full 21122 he gets hit? It doesnt make the character , its still super good but it does not "make the character" he isn't downplaying.

 

[ienjoywinning]

You're comparing characters that have nothing in common.



I agree with most of what you're saying. Just a few things: 1) I haven't tested jumping between F13 and EX BF3 yet, but if that's possible, that's what I'd change: people escaping the overhead starter at the cost of a bar of meter isn't that bad. 2) Marksman shouldn't have cancels that leave him at advantage on block. Jax's cancels are all negative. Johnny's F3 is a very powerful tool, but that one character has it doesn't mean that everyone else has to have it as well: each character works in its own way. 3) DB1 hitting mid and faster would make Marksman a really good zoner, and that's the last thing we need.

Pretty much every character in the entire game has a wakeup thats + on hit and even if they are not they probably have something useful other than 16%

 

[Desperdicio]

Are you forgetting that you can armor option select 21122 and armor everytime when he cancels to tacke or anything before the full 21122 he gets hit? It doesnt make the character , its still super good but it does not "make the character" he isn't downplaying.

What is that option select that you're talking about?

 

[ienjoywinning]

What is that option select that you're talking about?

Bit complicated to do but ppl like djt do it all the time , basically you slightly tap r1 ( dont unblock) and mash the reversal ( for example laos df1) through the places where he can tackle everytime he tries to do it they get hit and if they dont then you're completely safe

 

[Thanilla Ice]

If DB1 were a mid, the opponent would have a very hard time approaching, and they'd have lost a lot of health by chip damage by the time they made it. Then they would have to deal with Erron's pressure, which is the area at which he currently excels. Most projectiles in the game are high.

It'd make DB1 a move that you could use from fullscreen without thinking about the consequences, because it'd always go in your favor.

The move is slow af dude I wouldn't even consider it a zoning tool if it had the same frame data and if it were a mid

 

[Thanilla Ice]

Erron revolves (no pun intended) around 21122 u imbecile

 

[Desperdicio]

Bit complicated to do but ppl like djt do it all the time , basically you slightly tap r1 ( dont unblock) and mash the reversal ( for example laos df1) through the places where he can tackle everytime he tries to do it they get hit and if they dont then you're completely safe

So technically, the tick throws aren't a threat either? If that's so, given that and the jumping out of Sand Grenade thing, Erron is pure garbage, to be honest.

 

[Thanilla Ice]

Are you forgetting that you can armor option select 21122 and armor everytime when he cancels to tacke or anything before the full 21122 he gets hit? It doesnt make the character , its still super good but it does not "make the character" he isn't downplaying.

he's down playing the shit out of Erron ma dude, 21122 gun cancel pressure mixed up with exsg is highly underrated, u can force the opponent to respect the string with conditioning

 

[Thanilla Ice]

yall seriously overplaying this jumping out of f13xxBF3(ex), while its possible who the hell would try that when outlaw has his sand, gunslinger has its stance and marksman has its gun cancels/gun smack. I've yet to see a real player jump out of this defensive tech against erron that apparently makes him trash