Her gun will easily break the clone and take him down. Shes decent as a zoner.
Why crystalline doe.
As I said on my other post, the clone is not her issue, it's that he has a lot options to get around her zoning. Even tho I think FA is the best option against him, i don't think it's in her favor, I'd say he defeats her.
You say that because you are not in the corner with a goddamn ice clone in front of you and a bitch harassing you with mix-ups and good damage.
But he doesn't lose hard in neutral to anyone. Ice clone controls the neutral, in almost every single matchup in the game lol. Ice clone is almost like a neutral destroyer, he stops more than 50% of the cast from doing the normal things they're usually able to do in the neutral. He might lose in neutral to a few characters, but he doesn't lose hard in neutral to anybody. He has great range with B2 and slide, slide recovers almost instantly on whiff so that helps with him getting in on zoning, and pretty decent corner carry. Then everyone already knows what time it is when Grandmaster has you in the corner, probably best corner game in the whole entire cast.
I'd like to hear your reasoning behind SQ D'Vorah not winning this MU or her having an equal neutral with Sub.
aftershock is far worse than dvorah
I agree, sub's corner game is stronk against almost every character but someone like aftershock tremor has so many options to get around the clone, it's tough to control the pace as you say. I don't know if he loses super hard to anyone in neutral like king said but it definitely is a weakpoint in his game.
Whats the definition of a bad MU? Tremor limits you to use your basic tool set while he can use most of his arsenal. Air quake alone counters so much.
he has a decent footsie build but the fact that I have to use pretty limited tools with unsafe mixups while a character like tremor or dvorah has their entire moveset is kind of unfair, not to mention aftershock for example bodies in the neutral and can completely control the pace while keeping you at fullscreen. Yeah you can say once I get them to the corner its game over or whatever but I'd say he loses more than slightly to some characters and the huge point everyone is missing is that I do have to actually open them up or beat them in the neutral once to get them there. Just to also add things on, theres matchups like tremor, dvorah, hqt, etc. that all have options in the corner albeit not in the basic sense. They have to play more patient and make hard reads to use those options most of the time but it's still more of an option than most of the cast. Most matchups where you have to use essentially use variationless sub zero while being patient just to get in are bad mu's for sure
True but I have personal salt against Dvorah
She could have a better neutral then Sub, obviously it's nice her limbs go through the clone. But her neutral being slightly better than his isn't as much of a game changer as him having her in the corner. It's not like you always have to have an ice clone up at all times.
I would say opening up Devorah/Tremor in the nuetral is 10x easier than Devorah trying to get out of the corner against Grandmaster
At the risk of breaking being out of character and sounding like I'm upplaying, right before buff/nerf season at that, I cannot respond properly to this message.
I do play Sub, and I mopped up Slayer's HQT pretty good made him want to stop playing the matchup. His zoning was nothing, all it takes is for you to slide under one projectile and you're in.
