General/Other - Tanya Tanya SHOULD be normalized.

[Pan1cMode]

Imo, requiring stamina is a much harder nerf. If they get rid if the invincible frames then she can still have her constant mobility and no one can say its still too strong.

While I agree completely, I'm just wondering what caused the change of heart? iirc you were the one who pioneered the 'tele should cost stamina' idea so wondering why you changed your mind. This is not meant as a blow up, it's a legitimate question so that others can come around to your point of view.

 

[RVB]

Imo, requiring stamina is a much harder nerf. If they get rid if the invincible frames then she can still have her constant mobility and no one can say its still too strong.

Yeah she does use a lot of stamina on tele cancels and honestly I don't want those to go away so you're right tying stamina to her teleports would be too harsh.

If they remove the invincibility frames then she won't have a get out of jail free move so I'm all down for that but I wonder how they will do it cuz the animation looks ... well you know.

 

[Zoidberg747]

They also need to fix AAs in general. Part of the problem with Tanya's teleport is that she can njp right after it, and because AAs suck in this game it will either trade with or straight up beat a d2. I think they need to buff all characters priority on d2, but that is just me.

 

[14K]

The only thing to be said here is simple, She was a DLC character so is overpowered not by ocasion or mistake, she is overpowered on purpose, because they need to sell her out... if she was just ok, i garantee 50% of the ppl would not buy her, thats 50% profit loss for NRS ( Ficticious numbers but the point remains).. the same Tanya is OP now and will get ajusted, be it harshly or fairly is going to happen again with Predator. He will come out OP just like her for sales purposes... I cannot believe ppl and TOs havent learned from past experiences... having DLC characters in Majors is a horrible idea before they get trial and tested in local scenes for some time, specially in such events like this...

That being said ppl do feel drawn to her style and destroying her teleport is a bad call for everyone... taking her iframes feels like a good compromise and adding a bit more scaling to her Drill and the other Overhead special i cant remember the name....

 

[haketh]

If I told you that Scorpion used to get 1 bar 41% pre-patch with Inferno that was a vortex, is that too high?

If I told you in this current patch, Bone Shaper Shinnok gets a 39% 1 bar with a +8 on hit fireball restand to go for a low or grab option, overhead being the riskiest, is that too high?

Not really to either because neither has the mobility of Tanya.

 

[Vak Phoenix]

This is so sad, so so sad...

There are many factors why there were so many tanyas in top 8.

One of them being, people lacked mu experience against her. I have not seen a single person nj her teleport. None, except for @HoneyBee

When you nj her during teleport she eats the nj, most of my friends that i grind mu with realized that. So that takes away her teleport in approach if she does not have a health lead.

I have seen only 3-4 times her being punished on her normals or specials. Kobu b1d2 is -13 and does not have a pushback, kobu b2 is -9 and no one knew. How many times did i see her ex tele stand blocked and not punished, you get a free d2 if you block her ex teleport, just saying.

you people say that she is was an embarassment, please just shut up, before you make a bigger ass out of yourself. Because you lack mu knowledge you cry and demand nerfs. Why arent you all crying about kung jin anymore? Because you learned to fight him right? Yes, he got a slight damage nerf but he is still very good.

I am not going to stand here and just watch people nerfing my character that i wanted for 9 god damn years, due to the inexperience of the match up.

And the sad part is that if they will nerf her, i am still with her just like i was with sindel.

 

[Rude]

So I'm watching CEO Top 8 as of now. I've watched D.R. vs MIT, Gross vs Deg and REO vs Tanya.

In D.R.'s match, you can see he was beginning to adapt to Tanya's mobility. If Hellsparks had hit her, it would have went to game three and had that happened, it could have gone either way.

Gross adapted to Tanya's spacing of the teleport very quickly. At one point, he whiff punished a teleport into a full combo. He could have taken the set save for a few mistakes which cost him.

Honeybee vs. REO another very close set. Honeybee's spacing and uppercuts to teleports were great. You could tell that the nerfs affected his D'Vorah, but he played very well and lost to Kobu Jutsu pressure.

So far...it doesn't look like Tanya completely rolled over any of these players.

I'm still watching mind you, but are we sure Tanya's teleport is 100% OP and needs to be nerfed into the ground?

 

[buyacushun]

Just wanted to point one if the gripes I have with how DLC is handled right now. Can we not have DLC characters come out months into the game? With all these tournaments especially high profile ones such as CEO and EVO it's not a good look when a character shows up in 4 of top 8. Doesn't matter if its MU experience or whatever. Why release even more characters when we're still figuring out the base cast AND they still patch because some characters are being seen as outright not viable.

Also, can we get DLC characters in practice mode only. This shouldn't affect sales or tourneys because I highly doubt anyone is going to run practice mode matches. Is there any other genre that locks people out of certain characters with no real way to check them out aside from the tower test week. I don't plan on buying DLC at the moment unless Tremor is a grappler I got to have. So now if some new setup or whatever gets discovered with Tanya, Jason, Predator, or Tremor I have to hope someone posts how to stop it with my characters.

Since I don't have a way of figuring out the character the most I would like is making it easier for characters with no air projectile or easy way of catching back teleports to AA when she advances using teleports.

 

[Tony at Home]

This is so sad, so so sad...

There are many factors why there were so many tanyas in top 8.

One of them being, people lacked mu experience against her. I have not seen a single person nj her teleport. None, except for @HoneyBee

When you nj her during teleport she eats the nj, most of my friends that i grind mu with realized that. So that takes away her teleport in approach if she does not have a health lead.

I have seen only 3-4 times her being punished on her normals or specials. Kobu b1d2 is -13 and does not have a pushback, kobu b2 is -9 and no one knew. How many times did i see her ex tele stand blocked and not punished, you get a free d2 if you block her ex teleport, just saying.

you people say that she is was an embarassment, please just shut up, before you make a bigger ass out of yourself. Because you lack mu knowledge you cry and demand nerfs. Why arent you all crying about kung jin anymore? Because you learned to fight him right? Yes, he got a slight damage nerf but he is still very good.

I am not going to stand here and just watch people nerfing my character that i wanted for 9 god damn years, due to the inexperience of the match up.

And the sad part is that if they will nerf her, i am still with her just like i was with sindel.

Then the character shouldn't have been allowed at the tournament. More people need to speak up about not letting DLC characters compete so early into their life span.

It's pretty hypocritical of people to say "well, she only wrecked because of lack of MU knowledge", without having spoken up prior saying "maybe this character shouldn't be allowed in a major yet"

When the Scorpion incident happened, all talk of banning him from the tournament was written off as "adapt u scrubs!", rather than as genuine concern for a meta breaking character being played before people had a chance to learn.

Same thing happened here. And now, having let her compete in CEO, she's definitely going to have to be at Evo, and the inevitable patch to her will have to be rushed, and I think you know where this is going.

 

[Gonzo Dolo]

Does dave still compete ? I bet hes waiting for predaor to have a zoning variation

 

[Icy Black Deep]

The real issues is bad patches. And listening to community outcry too much.

And DLC.

 

[XAlcarazX]

Tanya being already cheap as she is why tf did nrs give her 3 hits of armor in her kobujutsu wake up thats complete bs.

 

[Skkra]

And to me, that's an ignorant stance for a viewer to take.

It doesn't take a huge intuitive leap to see a top 8 with multiple occurances of a character and think, "that character looks very strong, i wonder how they work?"

I'm sorry, but people basing whether or not to invest time in a game off one tournament Probably weren't fans of the franchise to begin with.

Especially since by the time EVO happens, even a casual viewer can see that the whole roster is not complete.

"Looks like they have one more dlc left. Wonder if hr can beat this Tanya?"

I'm sorry, but i don't think first-to-two sets in a high stress, high stakes environment where even top players miss punishes, drop combos, make mistakes, should be weighed as heavily as people place on it.

All of your points are valid. But in the real world, they don't matter.

We live in an on-demand world where people have a ton of options and very short attention spans. Just like I'm not going to see a movie if the trailer sucks, casual players are not going to be interested in joining the competitive scene if what they see when they watch competitive play looks like garbage to them. That is a "bad advertisement."

Evo is the true world stage. This is a time when literally tens of thousands (http://www.eventhubs.com/news/2014/jul/20/which-grand-finals-was-most-watched-evo-2014-ranking-viewership-game) more people - casual players - tune in than any other time. Look at the numbers in that article... no other tournament even comes close. This is when the largest number of casual eyes are on your game. This is the chance to show them what your game is like on a competitive level and have them think wow, that looks awesome, I want to be a part of that! The explosive growth of the FGC over the last several years has been completely fueled by that sentiment.

Evo is like a first date. You get one chance to impress someone. That's just life. Injustice looked horrible in it's first year and, right or wrong, it did irrevocable damage to the competitive scene as a result. BlazBlue looked spectacular last year, and I ran out and bought it as a result. One scene was crippled by their Evo showing; another got to add a new competitive player to the pools.

This is why it is important for MKX to look good on July 19th. If it looks like CEO did... well, Dave nailed it perfectly:

This character is a potential game, scene, and tournament killer.

 

[RM Jonnitti]

They also need to fix AAs in general. Part of the problem with Tanya's teleport is that she can njp right after it, and because AAs suck in this game it will either trade with or straight up beat a d2. I think they need to buff all characters priority on d2, but that is just me.

ive had a lot of success beating out teleports with air to airs. she actually can't hit a button right after and has a little bit of recovery where you can hit her and convert a combo off of jump punch. however, i do agree that d2s need to be a lot better. this game can potentially have a really strong base in footsies but jumping is just way too strong.

 

[haketh]

Ed boon called the design team and told them to do something before EVO. Something will be done before EVO lol.

That is fucking awful if we get this before EVO, game is gonna be a laughing stock

 

[haketh]

Also yeah the whole Stamina for teleports things is silly

 

[STRYKIE]

Tanya being already cheap as she is why tf did nrs give her 3 hits of armor in her kobujutsu wake up thats complete bs.

My Kobu Jutsu knowledge is extremely limited but are you sure you have to hit her 3 times before the armor breaks?

 

[XAlcarazX]

My Kobu Jutsu knowledge is extremely limited but are you sure you have to hit her 3 times before the armor breaks?

Yes with liu kang b1 after both hits hit still has armor and she also beats outs liu on ex windmill punches its dumb

 

[Zoidberg747]

Yes with liu kang b1 after both hits hit still has armor and she also beats outs liu on ex windmill punches its dumb

It doesn't have 3 hits of armor, it has two. It also is armored and breaks armor which is why your oki isn't working.

 

[STRYKIE]

It doesn't have 3 hits of armor, it has two. It also is armored and breaks armor which is why your oki isn't working.

How does it fare against Kung Lao's EX Spin? (outside of Tempest obviously)

 

[Zoidberg747]

How does it fare against Kung Lao's EX Spin? (outside of Tempest obviously)

Theoretically it should break it, but I haven't tested it extensively. Ill let you know when I get home.

 

[Temjiin]

Just wanted to point one if the gripes I have with how DLC is handled right now. Can we not have DLC characters come out months into the game? With all these tournaments especially high profile ones such as CEO and EVO it's not a good look when a character shows up in 4 of top 8. Doesn't matter if its MU experience or whatever. Why release even more characters when we're still figuring out the base cast AND they still patch because some characters are being seen as outright not viable.

Also, can we get DLC characters in practice mode only. This shouldn't affect sales or tourneys because I highly doubt anyone is going to run practice mode matches. Is there any other genre that locks people out of certain characters with no real way to check them out aside from the tower test week. I don't plan on buying DLC at the moment unless Tremor is a grappler I got to have. So now if some new setup or whatever gets discovered with Tanya, Jason, Predator, or Tremor I have to hope someone posts how to stop it with my characters.

Since I don't have a way of figuring out the character the most I would like is making it easier for characters with no air projectile or easy way of catching back teleports to AA when she advances using teleports.

I completely agree with this, should be able to practice against them at least or practice as them.... try before you buy if you will.

Would probably boost sales if anything. Tanya sucks and I'm not spending a penny on her.

 

[D_Matt_Ma]

It doesn't have 3 hits of armor, it has two. It also is armored and breaks armor which is why your oki isn't working.

Wow... the goro in me feels so salty. Punch walking against a better punch walker

 

[4x4lo8o]

CEO made MKX look like an absolute joke.

The crowd counting teleports was hilarious

 

[Shark Tank]

You know a lot of this bs would be avoided with better design and actual testing of dlc rather than using majors as an open beta. Elephant.

Maybe dlc should be banned for current majors since we can't have the above but we all know when it comes to rulesets it gets discussed on tym then "bruh adapt" and we forget 1 week later. So bring on that tanya super nerf, we all know it's coming. It's as unavoidable as death.