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Guide - Grandmaster Sub-Zero GRANDMASTER Guide

PwnStar

PwnStar

Noob
yes and yes. edited the 242 in.

I'm still experimenting with reliable clone combos since there's so many ways. I'll be delving into it next. But for now I want to flesh out f12. It seems really viable and the likely future of all grandmaster corner set ups. No more nj.3.
 
BasiKs

BasiKs

get that work make that work work
f12 and b33d4 have been explored as combo enders. the former tends to provide better setups for untechable back throws into clone (as it allows you to place the clone closer than you would normally), and the latter tends to provide better setups for high dmg meterless shatter combos (due to spacing the clone further away.) nj3 is still useful for its flexibility and ease of execution.

i do like the idea of bj1 into f12 for spacing though - one of the issues i've been having with f12 as a combo ender is it leaving me too close to reliably get a clone out, and it seems that preceding it with bj1 might address that issue. i'm testing this a bit now. thanks for the post!
 
Embestone

Embestone

Stoen
Actually, ending with F12 knocks the opponent down for a really long time, allowing you to walk backwards and place a shatter setup, while still being safe to armored wakeups.
 
Qwark28

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
PwnStar said:
I'm so bad bout making a video (it will happen)...but I have a big break through in clone set ups. No longer do we have to sacrifice damage to land a nj.3, use f12 instead! You still lose a tiny bit of damage from and optimal slide ender, but we're talking 2-4% now, not 10%+.

Optimal corner combos w/ new set up!
b12~freeze, whiff clone, j.2, 242, nj.1, fj.1, bj.1, f12, set clone
b12~freeze, whiff clone, j.2, 242, bj.1, f12, set clone
b2, b2, 1, d1, b12~clone, nj.1, bj.1, f12, set clone
b2, b2, 242, 11~clone, nj.1, f12, set clone

So you'll be very close when you do this but you have TONS of time. Wait till their legs go up from the knockdown, then set clone or it will whiff. You'll have ridiculous frame advantage and are in perfect range to throw out a d4(low) or a b2 (overhead) for a safe 50/50. If they wake up with an armor move, you first hit will be absorbed and then they will be frozen by clone, netting you the damage they took in armor and a fresh new combo to restart the vortex. I think only armored teleports and moves that don't move their body forward can ever beat you out.

Tech is still very new so I need to test it on other cast members and other things. So far this is VERY consistent on sub zero opponent doing wake up EX~Slide.
Click to expand...
I've posted this in both my guides and multiple of my tech threads.

I'm not directing this at you but I'm really amazed at how many people don't actually read tech threads.
 
PwnStar

PwnStar

Noob
Qwark28 said:
I've posted this in both my guides and multiple of my tech threads.

I'm not directing this at you but I'm really amazed at how many people don't actually read tech threads.
Click to expand...
Must've missed it in this thread. I glance to check, and I don't see any other threads that really cover tech. They're either for other variants or one off questions that don't need their own thread. Admittedly I don't watch most of the tech vids.
 
Lex Luthor II

Lex Luthor II

Lord of Lightning
Awesome guide. But does Sub Zero have the WORST damaging combos in the game or what?

Does the rest of his style/abilities make up for it? I want to try him but compared to Kung Jin or DVorah who I can get 40% everytime I touch you, sometime with no meter, is it worth it?
 
PwnStar

PwnStar

Noob
Lex Luthor II said:
Awesome guide. But does Sub Zero have the WORST damaging combos in the game or what?

Does the rest of his style/abilities make up for it? I want to try him but compared to Kung Jin or DVorah who I can get 40% everytime I touch you, sometime with no meter, is it worth it?
Click to expand...
His tools seem to justify it. You have good corner carry and once you get them in corner you can begin to do real damage and make really nasty pressure while hiding behind clones. He also just has good buttons and options in neutral to get the hit. Grandmaster is indeed viable...cryo and unbreakable seem to be counter pick options for the few characters/variations you can't bully with clones...but that may be better done with an alt...I dunno :/
 
Psyren136

Psyren136

Noob
PwnStar said:
His tools seem to justify it. You have good corner carry and once you get them in corner you can begin to do real damage and make really nasty pressure while hiding behind clones. He also just has good buttons and options in neutral to get the hit. Grandmaster is indeed viable...cryo and unbreakable seem to be counter pick options for the few characters/variations you can't bully with clones...but that may be better done with an alt...I dunno :/
Click to expand...
I agree with this.

GM definitely gives you the most options. I use Unbreakable as a counter pick option against certain match-ups that i feel like GM isn't as suited for.

I can't think of any good counter pick match-ups that Cryomancer is useful for. Maybe someone else can toss me their opinions on that one.

I try to stick to only Sub Zero since his variations actually feel like they can cover all his match-ups. I have learned the very basics of a few other characters just for lolz though.
 
Desperdicio

Desperdicio

Tell me, do you bleed?
Excuse me if this has already been said (I haven't read the whole thread yet):

I am hitting the lab with GM SZ trying to put into good use UltraDavid's option selects. So far, I found this:

1) You can do EN Ice Ball after B3, 3 on hit, and just duck on block, so you don't have to risk wasting a bar. You can achieve this by inputting D after you input the Ice Ball, but before B3, 3 is cancelled into it. Basically, before the animation of the Ice Ball starts.

2) By delaying the Ice Clone after F4, if you hit, you will just hit F4, so you will be closer to the opponent and at a 1 frame of advantage (closer than if you had left the ice clone, that is), while if you're blocked, the Ice Clone will come out.
 
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Qwark28

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
Desperdicio said:
Excuse me if this has already been said (I haven't read the whole thread yet):

I am hitting the lab with GM SZ trying to put into good use UltraDavid's option selects. So far, I found this:

1) You can do EN Ice Ball after B3, 3 on hit, and just duck on block, so you don't have to risk wasting a bar. You can achieve this by inputting D after you input the Ice Ball, but before B3, 3 is cancelled into it. Basically, before the animation of the Ice Ball starts.

2) By delaying the Ice Clone after F4, if you hit, you will just hit F4, so you will be closer to the opponent and at a 1 frame of advantage (closer than if you had left the ice clone, that is), while if you're blocked, the Ice Clone will come out.

@Tom Brady : You can add this to the guide if it is useful.
Click to expand...
B33 is -8 on block, you'll be punished anyway. What you're doing is not an option select, it's bad hitconfirming.

A real option select is doing iceball on hit, clone on block.
 
Desperdicio

Desperdicio

Tell me, do you bleed?
Qwark28 said:
B33 is -8 on block, you'll be punished anyway. What you're doing is not an option select, it's bad hitconfirming.

A real option select is doing iceball on hit, clone on block.
Click to expand...
I see your point. It would be a bad option select, then. It is an option select, though. How do you Ice Ball on hit or Ice Clone on block with an option select?
 
Qwark28

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
Desperdicio said:
I see your point. It would be a bad option select, then. It is an option select, though. How do you Ice Ball on hit or Ice Clone on block with an option select?
Click to expand...
OS is an input that covers 2 options at the same time

What you wrote doesn't unless you can press ex iceball into down and the system on hit doesn't cancel but on block does.
 
Desperdicio

Desperdicio

Tell me, do you bleed?
Qwark28 said:
OS is an input that covers 2 options at the same time

What you wrote doesn't unless you can press ex iceball into down and the system on hit doesn't cancel but on block does.
Click to expand...
The other way around: on hit, it cancels; on block, it doesn't. Anyway, like you said, it leaves you at a disadvantage. The difference is being at a disadvantage but not wasting a bar, while on the other case you would be at a disadvantage and you would've lost a bar. Either way, you lose if it gets blocked; you would just "lose a little less" by doing the option select.
 
Alioune

Alioune

Noob
Desperdicio said:
I see your point. It would be a bad option select, then. It is an option select, though. How do you Ice Ball on hit or Ice Clone on block with an option select?
Click to expand...
Check the vids on my channel 'ilovethisgame75', found the option selects around 3 weeks back.Inputs in the vid.
Another way that I didnt post is to iceball and hold back with the right timing. I do both motions because more reliable for me.
 
Desperdicio

Desperdicio

Tell me, do you bleed?
Alioune said:
Check the vids on my channel 'ilovethisgame75', found the option selects around 3 weeks back.Inputs in the vid.
Another way that I didnt post is to iceball and hold back with the right timing. I do both motions because more reliable for me.
Click to expand...
How do you do the option select between ice ball and ice clone? Is it the way they told me a few comments ago? I couldn't pull that off.
 
mrsz

mrsz

O.G. SZ
PwnStar said:
I'm so bad bout making a video (it will happen)...but I have a big break through in clone set ups. No longer do we have to sacrifice damage to land a nj.3, use f12 instead! You still lose a tiny bit of damage from and optimal slide ender, but we're talking 2-4% now, not 10%+.

Optimal corner combos w/ new set up!
b12~freeze, whiff clone, j.2, 242, nj.1, fj.1, bj.1, f12, set clone
b12~freeze, whiff clone, j.2, 242, bj.1, f12, set clone
b2, b2, 1, d1, b12~clone, nj.1, bj.1, f12, set clone
b2, b2, 242, 11~clone, nj.1, f12, set clone

So you'll be very close when you do this but you have TONS of time. Wait till their legs go up from the knockdown, then set clone or it will whiff. You'll have ridiculous frame advantage and are in perfect range to throw out a d4(low) or a b2 (overhead) for a safe 50/50. If they wake up with an armor move, you first hit will be absorbed and then they will be frozen by clone, netting you the damage they took in armor and a fresh new combo to restart the vortex. I think only armored teleports and moves that don't move their body forward can ever beat you out.

Tech is still very new so I need to test it on other cast members and other things. So far this is VERY consistent on sub zero opponent doing wake up EX~Slide.
Click to expand...
Awesome PwnStar! Now I just have to test it. Good to see you and Alioune messing around with FJ. 1/2 or BJ 1/2 as I was trying to throw a few in to increase damage in the corner as well.
 
Iced_Taz

Iced_Taz

Characters loyalist :)
Slide is very good punisher. Very fast and outstanding range. I think that's only punisher that Sub has against Sonya's divekick.
 
sketch puppy

sketch puppy

Noob
Yo guys I'm really not understanding the option select f4 into ice ball ice clone.... I keep trying it , is it all instant inputs cause pretty much everytime in getting the ball even on block
 
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