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Sub-Zero General Discussion

Dankster Morgan

Dankster Morgan

It is better this way
Amplified$hotz said:
Looking forward to the first patch.

Even though I still like the character, I don’t enjoy playing Sub-Zero as is. Hope he gets some love sooner rather than later.
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I think he will get a little help I’m sure. With Cyrax surely getting nerfed and maybe some small changes to some better characters along with Sub getting a few changes, he should be in a decent spot.
 
Amplified$hotz

Amplified$hotz

I like Tekken 8
Dankster Morgan said:
I think he will get a little help I’m sure. With Cyrax surely getting nerfed and maybe some small changes to some better characters along with Sub getting a few changes, he should be in a decent spot.
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Yeah I hope you’re right. I just want him to be a functional character, because right now he’s not.

I hate to toot my own horn, but I’m pretty good at scouting characters. During the beta, I said numerous times that Sub would get nerfed and he did.

Now I’m saying, if this character stays as is, he’s only going to be a troll/throw pick in the future.

The character has a hard time now, and most people haven’t even labbed the match up. Once they learn he’s full of gaps, and super punishable, it’ll get bad.

Most players haven’t developed the habit of reacting to klone cancels. That’s where the descent will begin.
 
Dankster Morgan

Dankster Morgan

It is better this way
Amplified$hotz said:
Yeah I hope you’re right. I just want him to be a functional character, because right now he’s not.

I hate to toot my own horn, but I’m pretty good at scouting characters. During the beta, I said numerous times that Sub would get nerfed and he did.

Now I’m saying, if this character stays as is, he’s only going to be a troll/throw pick in the future.

The character has a hard time now, and most people haven’t even labbed the match up. Once they learn he’s full of gaps, and super punishable, it’ll get bad.

Most players haven’t developed the habit of reacting to klone cancels. That’s where the descent will begin.
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The unpunished klone cancels is the biggest thing, it’s like the only thing he can do to circumvent having no + on block strings, so once people get used to punishing them it’s curtains. I also don’t think they understand the recovery, as in Sub can’t move for the majority of the klone’s short life, so even if they aren’t outright punishing him, they should be throwing a projectile at the klone and chasing him down. They see klone and fear BF2 or instant dive kick from behind it, but that’s not a thing.

I will say though that air klone is underrated. Not always doing divekick but sometimes J3 into air klone can mess with people even if they’re used to Sub. It’s also nice because it makes people not wanna jump over BF2 so much.
 
E

Eji1700

Noob
Dankster Morgan said:
The unpunished klone cancels is the biggest thing, it’s like the only thing he can do to circumvent having no + on block strings, so once people get used to punishing them it’s curtains. I also don’t think they understand the recovery, as in Sub can’t move for the majority of the klone’s short life, so even if they aren’t outright punishing him, they should be throwing a projectile at the klone and chasing him down. They see klone and fear BF2 or instant dive kick from behind it, but that’s not a thing.

I will say though that air klone is underrated. Not always doing divekick but sometimes J3 into air klone can mess with people even if they’re used to Sub. It’s also nice because it makes people not wanna jump over BF2 so much.
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Unpunished clone cancels and armoring through gaps in his strings are going to be the major problems in a few months when the average player at higher tiers really knows the matchup. His slow mid is the other one that, ironically, is even an issue at lower tiers, along with people understanding that the clone hitbox is MUCH smaller than it looks.

Even in the lowest of tiers (i suck and have not had time to play much) it's showing up. Of course people love to push buttons, and mostly they're decent enough to push crouching buttons like d1/2/3/4, so your highs whiff and get punished, your mid can actually be beat, and if you clone cancel to punish.....they swing through the clone.

This is just brutal. Clone really only punishes forward moving buttons or strings, which only the craziest of players are doing in those situations even at lower tiers, and once they notice that "oh i can d1 and stop pressure but not catch clone" it's an easy answer to ALL of subs "offense". So the only thing clone gets you is a wall for you to iceball/clone punch/slide + kameo/whatever, and none of those are that threatening either.
 
Ironsoulsmasher

Ironsoulsmasher

...
Dankster Morgan said:
The unpunished klone cancels is the biggest thing, it’s like the only thing he can do to circumvent having no + on block strings, so once people get used to punishing them it’s curtains. I also don’t think they understand the recovery, as in Sub can’t move for the majority of the klone’s short life, so even if they aren’t outright punishing him, they should be throwing a projectile at the klone and chasing him down. They see klone and fear BF2 or instant dive kick from behind it, but that’s not a thing.

I will say though that air klone is underrated. Not always doing divekick but sometimes J3 into air klone can mess with people even if they’re used to Sub. It’s also nice because it makes people not wanna jump over BF2 so much.
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I played against a Geras in ranked that consistently punished my clone cancels with his sweep. I was flabbergasted. Started staggering more and he had stopped reacting to it as often, but damn this is just another highlight of Sub's hard working life lol
 
Dankster Morgan

Dankster Morgan

It is better this way
The real struggle bus is Sindel who gets meterless and kameo-less full combo punishes on cancels. I know there’s others but she’s the main one that comes to mind. And yes, Geras sweep and other moves like it are meterless / kameo less, but at least not like scream launching. Cage + Sektor might be his best choice vs sub, which I say not playing Cage so take it with a grain of salt. Sektor can punish the klone cancels even if it’s a little tighter than other punishes, and Cage can D1 punish F12. So that obviously puts our boy in a tough spot unless he is using Lao exclusively.

I really don’t have a ton of issues with the gaps unless it’s someone like Kung Lao. who will armor launch for big damage, most are spending a bar for like 10% which is usually fine by me.
 
The Highlander

The Highlander

There can be only one
First of all huge agree on the clone punishes, I'm not the best but I ran into a Shao who knew the match-up and it was super rough (I admittedly don't know the match-up as well as he did) but the range on his normals really fucked me up.

Secondly who are you boys using as a secondary? I don't necessarily want someone to cover subs weaknesses, just someone fun. Liu Kang kind of looks sweet, Li Mei also looks kinda cool
 
Amplified$hotz

Amplified$hotz

I like Tekken 8
The Highlander said:
First of all huge agree on the clone punishes, I'm not the best but I ran into a Shao who knew the match-up and it was super rough (I admittedly don't know the match-up as well as he did) but the range on his normals really fucked me up.

Secondly who are you boys using as a secondary? I don't necessarily want someone to cover subs weaknesses, just someone fun. Liu Kang kind of looks sweet, Li Mei also looks kinda cool
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It’ll only get worse over time.

I’m maining Kenshi until Sub-Zero gets fixed.
 
Dankster Morgan

Dankster Morgan

It is better this way
The Highlander said:
First of all huge agree on the clone punishes, I'm not the best but I ran into a Shao who knew the match-up and it was super rough (I admittedly don't know the match-up as well as he did) but the range on his normals really fucked me up.

Secondly who are you boys using as a secondary? I don't necessarily want someone to cover subs weaknesses, just someone fun. Liu Kang kind of looks sweet, Li Mei also looks kinda cool
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Liu Kang is a great choice. He has just about everything and he is likely to be one of the best characters in the game if some others are nerfed.
 
Dankster Morgan

Dankster Morgan

It is better this way
Once again I wanna make a case for Sonya and Goro. Kameos that let him launch off the full B34 string are usually written off as something that's just kinda nice, but it's a big deal. It's only -5 on block so Cage can't D1 punish like he can F12. Similar range to F12 and it's faster, plus you're getting a meterless launch for solid damage. There is a gap however, so obviously with characters that armor launch, this doesn't apply, but I couldn't give less of a shit if Cage wants to spend a bar to shadow kick me. Obviously a good reversal kameo can mess you up too.

Speaking of armor launcher, obviously they give you that, which gives Sub-Zero a way to blow up gaps or a projectile. Slide has been nerfed from the last few games because of the standing frames, so you can't always just slide a projectile on reaction, but when you have armor and can launch for high 200s because someone is throwing a projectile, you can. Slide is back with these kameos and EX slide becomes easily a top 5 armor move. Goro can make it safe from the right difference.

I don't think they're necessarily better than Lao where you have something to cancel into on block which is huge, or even Sareena, but they have a time and a place, especially if it's a character like Raiden who can low profile F12 into stupid damage, or Cage who can D1 punish F12 and simultaneously doesn't have the scariest armor to expose the B34 gap.
 
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Amplified$hotz

Amplified$hotz

I like Tekken 8
Dankster Morgan said:
Once again I wanna make a case for Sonya and Goro. Kameos that let him launch off the full B34 string are usually written off as something that's just kinda nice, but it's a big deal. It's only -5 on block so Cage can't D1 punish like he can F12. Similar range to F12 and it's faster, plus you're getting a meterless launch for solid damage. There is a gap however, so obviously with characters that armor launch, this doesn't apply, but I couldn't give less of a shit if Cage wants to spend a bar to shadow kick me. Obviously a good reversal kameo can mess you up too.

Speaking of armor launcher, obviously they give you that, which gives Sub-Zero a way to blow up gaps or a projectile. Slide has been nerfed from the last few games because of the standing frames, so you can't always just slide a projectile on reaction, but when you have armor and can launch for high 200s because someone is throwing a projectile, you can. Slide is back with these kameos and EX slide becomes easily a top 5 armor move. Goro can make it safe from the right difference.

I don't think they're necessarily better than Lao where you have something to cancel into on block which is huge, or even Sareena, but they have a time and a place, especially if it's a character like Raiden who can low profile F12 into stupid damage, or Cage who can D1 punish F12 and simultaneously doesn't have the scariest armor to expose the B34 gap.
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Sonya is good but she doesn’t really add much to the neutral game besides an anti air and a slow projectile. She’s good in kombat league but I wouldn’t use her in tournament against strong players.

However, if her energy ring was an ambush and not a summon, she’d Make Sub-Zero way better.
 
Dankster Morgan

Dankster Morgan

It is better this way
Amplified$hotz said:
Sonya is good but she doesn’t really add much to the neutral game besides an anti air and a slow projectile. She’s good in kombat league but I wouldn’t use her in tournament against strong players.

However, if her energy ring was an ambush and not a summon, she’d Make Sub-Zero way better.
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Don’t get me wrong, I think it’s very specific use cases. Lao and Sareena are his best kameos most likely. However the threat of an advancing armored launcher for decent damage even if it’s unsafe does help his neutral for sure.
 
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Amplified$hotz

Amplified$hotz

I like Tekken 8
The first streamed match of ECT is of course a Sub-Zero getting 3-0d, but fools who suffer from confirmation bias will see Sub-Zero win a regional and say, “SeE tHe chAraCTeR IS vIAbLe! Stop crying and get in the lab” As if he hasn’t been getting his ass kicked (or not even picked) in every tournament (online and offline) since release.


Match starts 20 minutes into the video: https://www.youtube.com/live/D0c_VEZRBLU?si=pNjg8pdURNJhRrdC
 
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N

narshkajke

Noob
PC port got low poly ice klone.

today I just realized when I watched Tom's video about balance patch that there's a disparity between the ice klone in console and PC


21188

Playstation


21189

PC

I know this sounds like a nitpick, but come on NRS, PC should be able to handle higher texture and poly compared to console...
and I set my settings in max, in case anyone wondered.

will this be fixed in the future patch?

edit: after I restarted my game couple of times, the ice klone finally looks similar to the console version, what happened here guys?
 
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Sage-Of-Light

Sage-Of-Light

Student of Nature
Marinjuana said:
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1716673421839344125
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he addressed that it wouldb be fixed
narshkajke said:
PC port got low poly ice klone.

today I just realized when I watched Tom's video about balance patch that there's a disparity between the ice klone in console and PC


21188

Playstation


21189

PC

I know this sounds like a nitpick, but come on NRS, PC should be able to handle higher texture and poly compared to console...
and I set my settings in max, in case anyone wondered.

will this be fixed in the future patch?

edit: after I restarted my game couple of times, the ice klone finally looks similar to the console version, what happened here guys?
Click to expand...
the clone looks like that with the silver skin on ps5 aswell it's because of the skin which they should fix
 
E

Eji1700

Noob
narshkajke said:
PC port got low poly ice klone.

today I just realized when I watched Tom's video about balance patch that there's a disparity between the ice klone in console and PC


21188

Playstation


21189

PC

I know this sounds like a nitpick, but come on NRS, PC should be able to handle higher texture and poly compared to console...
and I set my settings in max, in case anyone wondered.

will this be fixed in the future patch?

edit: after I restarted my game couple of times, the ice klone finally looks similar to the console version, what happened here guys?
Click to expand...
Shader loading i suspect. I've never had mine look like that.
 
STB Sgt Reed

STB Sgt Reed

Online Warrior
Why is ice ball so trash in this game? What is the reason. Can't even hit confirm into it. Even if you know a projectile is going to come it's so freakin' slow you just get stuffed. Clone is already garbage, freezing with clone or the ground thing scales horribly. Frost kameo freeze lasts longer than the main cryomancer of the series...

I'm convinced former players at NRS that got cooked by sub are doing this shit on purpose lol

I use lao kameo in order to do more than 2 hits on block before losing my turn with sub zero. Who do y'all use? Sareena seems the only way to get comparable damage to the cast but then you have no offense. lol
 
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