General/Other - Sonya Blade Sonya General Discussion Thread

[I GOT HANDS]

Dude they are who knows why lol but this also means she gains a safe 50/50 after her 50/50 since she can cancel into heavy blast or Low kami

Niiiice How much does the second 50/50 convert into off each option if it connects?

 

[Ninequads93]

She's also safe after 111 drone call

Niiiice How much does the second 50/50 convert into off each option if it connects?

If you cancel into heavy blast (overhead) does 8% and knocks down into Low kamikaze you can convert into 35% in the corner don't know how much midscreen but low is easier to react to but If they block low kami You can hit them with an overhead after b1 mb energy ring if they block your negative 5 if they get hit they get knocked down you call out drone again lots of mindgames

 

[errormacro7]

God, how I wish this Dedlock dude would let himself get banned. He's unbearable with his crying and it's like he has no idea what he's talking about sometimes.

 

[Dedlock]

God, how I wish this Dedlock dude would let himself get banned. He's unbearable with his crying and it's like he has no idea what he's talking about sometimes.

Banned for what voicing an opinion? If I'm not being clear to anybody, I'll gladly explain why I think Military Stance's 50/50 game is flawed.

 

[JerQ_Q]

Well im currently working on CO Sonya in many areas.

Here is a short list im working on:
-Reversal parries/x-rays for MU:s
-Offensive parries/x-rays for MU:s
-Parries under pressure for MU:s
-Optimal combos
-MS1 and 3 options

For parries I only test the EX version cos of the combo possibility. MS3 has no gap when done from certain strings. MS1 can work as somekind of tick throw from certain strings ( I need to check this out more what is the option for the oppoments and stuff ).

 

[errormacro7]

Banned for what voicing an opinion? If I'm not being clear to anybody, I'll gladly explain why I think Military Stance's 50/50 game is flawed.

Seriously, I don't know what goes through your mind when you post here because everything you say is negative. Whether you think MS is flawed, she has the worst D2 in the game, that Kitana got buffs because 16bit is a NRS dev, that you go full braindead mode when you pick Mileena because with Sonya you have to think, that playing Sonya is a struggle, is your problem. Even if she got a 100% unblockable unbreakable guaranteed reset you'd still complain. Go play another character if you think she's that bad.

 

[Dedlock]

Well im currently working on CO Sonya in many areas.


For parries I only test the EX version cos of the combo possibility. MS3 has no gap when done from certain strings. MS1 can work as somekind of tick throw from certain strings ( I need to check this out more what is the option for the oppoments and stuff ).

parries in match ups are hard to determine because you have to be able to read your opponent, however, I find parries are quite effective against Johnny Cage, Cassie, Erron Black, Kung Lao, Kung Jin, Scorpion (ninjitsu), Mileena, Dvorah.

Sonya's most damaging Ex parry is EX Parry 1/3, You can get a full combo off it provided lag is good, damage is 38% to 40% if you successfully execute her BnB's after the parry. her optimal BnB's in covert ops are all stated in the combo post, whatever path you take opt to take just keep in mind damage is normalized thanks to the games scaling so her optimal bnb in covert ops should average 28% with a high 31% without wasting a bar.

 

[Dedlock]

Seriously, I don't know what goes through your mind when you post here because everything you say is negative. Whether you think MS is flawed, she has the worst D2 in the game, that Kitana got buffs because 16bit is a NRS dev, that you go full braindead mode when you pick Mileena because with Sonya you have to think, that playing Sonya is a struggle, is your problem. Even if she got a 100% unblockable unbreakable guaranteed reset you'd still complain. Go play another character if you think she's that bad.

So much drama!!!! I dont have time to address all your grievances with me but

about me playing Mileena in brain dead mode, that was a comment I made in jest and reflects on me spamming her moves like a noob.

Sonya's D2 has improved greatly after the August patch where hit box issues have been addressed, it doesnt outright whiff like it used to before.

In general being critical is not the same as being negative, and I;m not ashamed to say that NRS freshening up Sonya's Covert ops game would be something I would welcome with open arms. , if you want her to remain untouched for the rest of the game's shelf life then I respect that, however, just Look at how Sub Zero Takeda, Kotal and goro amongst others have drastically changed for the better.

 

[errormacro7]

So much drama!!!! I dont have time to address all your grievances with me but

about me playing Mileena in brain dead mode, that was a comment I made in jest and reflects on me spamming her moves like a noob.

Sonya's D2 has improved greatly after the August patch where hit box issues have been addressed, it doesnt outright whiff like it used to before.

In general being critical is not the same as being negative, and I;m not ashamed to say that NRS freshening up Sonya's Covert ops game would be something I would welcome with open arms. , if you want her to remain untouched for the rest of the game's shelf life then I respect that, however, just Look at how Sub Zero Takeda, Kotal and goro amongst others have drastically changed for the better.

You said she has the worst D2 one or two days after Scar won AB6 with her because one of the commentators said her D2 is one of the best in the game. Has any patch or hot fix come out during that time that changed her D2 for you to change your mind now? I don't remember.

And can't you realize that these characters were considered worse than her? You can't complain about Takeda and Goro getting buffs, you just can't. Sonya was never low tier.

 

[JerQ_Q]

parries in match ups are hard to determine because you have to be able to read your opponent, however, I find parries are quite effective against Johnny Cage, Cassie, Erron Black, Kung Lao, Kung Jin, Scorpion (ninjitsu), Mileena, Dvorah.

Sonya's most damaging Ex parry is EX Parry 1/3, You can get a full combo off it provided lag is good, damage is 38% to 40% if you successfully execute her BnB's after the parry. her optimal BnB's in covert ops are all stated in the combo post, whatever path you take opt to take just keep in mind damage is normalized thanks to the games scaling so her optimal bnb in covert ops should average 28% with a high 31% without wasting a bar.

Im working towards offline/online strats. More towards offline.

Parries are yea guessing game I know but still there are alot of patterns that players repeat with different charachters, Im looking into those to find possible parry gaps in them. I get 43% and 48% out of ex parry atm.

Max dmg I get in corner without meter is 35% without jump ins. With them 39%.

 

[HugeMcBigLarge]

No reason to derail the thread w/ personal beef.

Also on the parries, I tend to just get a b14-> normal combo after the ex parry 1/3 because the dive kick in there getting an extra lie 3% but getting dropped a bunch is generally not worth it. Tournament nerves are real and nothing is dumber than making a sick read and losing your pressure because you didn't dive kick fast enough.

Also, I'm reasonably certain that the Sonya-Jax match up is pretty skewed in Sonya's favor because of the parry (almost all his pressure except his janky b3 is high. You beat his 11 pressure, you parry his poke string, you parry his f4 (advancing knee), you pretty much lock him out of everything.

The one thing that seriously makes me consider dropping CO sonya is her inability to convert out of the air. Hitting someone in the air w/ a b1 means absolutely nothing except frustrate both players. I'm mad because I can't convert ANYTHING from it, and they just got hit into a soft knockdown. Also god forbid I actually finish the string (normally an accident as b1 hit, 4 misses, then MS cancel doesn't come out and get the full string), then I GET PUNISHED FOR THE ANTI AIR (using b142 into a jumping opponent)

If there's any real answers to that, I would love to know how people are addressing it. Also the problem of backdashing/jumping after MS cancels: It's real. It SUCKS so hard and makes me adopt unsafe patterns. You have to condition them to stay on the ground and block and that's usually done by throwing out instant MS 3's after the block string. Doing that once or twice will almost guarantee that I get blown up for it, but then I can start my mind games.

Also never forget MS 4 is a double hitting move. It's slow, sure, but you can beat out a ton of armor in the game if they think they can armor out of MS options. Generally a guessing game that you dictate pace on, BUT is still super -. Take risks and make hard reads. MS and parry are tools for reads.

 

[Jolt]

You said she has the worst D2 one or two days after Scar won AB6 with her because one of the commentators said her D2 is one of the best in the game. Has any patch or hot fix come out during that time that changed her D2 for you to change your mind now? I don't remember..

I shouldn't introduce myself into this chaos, but I can never resist. I disagree with A LOT of things Dedlock says (and other posters too, obviously). But I also dislike her d2. Commentators are welcome to their opinion, but for the uses I have for it it's pretty eh. Now, let me explain MY reasoning.

I like to have a reliable d2 anti-air with a strong vertical hitbox. If you are cornered, Sonya's D2 is NOT going to help you with a jump in. Mileena's on the other hand will (and that's my other character). I would honestly argue that Mileena's D2 is surprisingly good. Low profiles a lot of strings, quick startup, good hitbox.

Sonya's d2 is excellent for specific situations, but as a universal d2 I'm not feeling it. In many cases, stand 4 works just as well as (if not better than) her d2.

Once again, I digress BUT I think to some extent that's just a matter of opinion. It's a good d2, but I wouldn't consider it the best by any means. I'd kinda prefer if it were more stubby and didn't go out so far horizontally, honestly. Just my opinion.

 

[errormacro7]

No reason to derail the thread w/ personal beef.

Also on the parries, I tend to just get a b14-> normal combo after the ex parry 1/3 because the dive kick in there getting an extra lie 3% but getting dropped a bunch is generally not worth it. Tournament nerves are real and nothing is dumber than making a sick read and losing your pressure because you didn't dive kick fast enough.

Also, I'm reasonably certain that the Sonya-Jax match up is pretty skewed in Sonya's favor because of the parry (almost all his pressure except his janky b3 is high. You beat his 11 pressure, you parry his poke string, you parry his f4 (advancing knee), you pretty much lock him out of everything.

The one thing that seriously makes me consider dropping CO sonya is her inability to convert out of the air. Hitting someone in the air w/ a b1 means absolutely nothing except frustrate both players. I'm mad because I can't convert ANYTHING from it, and they just got hit into a soft knockdown. Also god forbid I actually finish the string (normally an accident as b1 hit, 4 misses, then MS cancel doesn't come out and get the full string), then I GET PUNISHED FOR THE ANTI AIR (using b142 into a jumping opponent)

If there's any real answers to that, I would love to know how people are addressing it. Also the problem of backdashing/jumping after MS cancels: It's real. It SUCKS so hard and makes me adopt unsafe patterns. You have to condition them to stay on the ground and block and that's usually done by throwing out instant MS 3's after the block string. Doing that once or twice will almost guarantee that I get blown up for it, but then I can start my mind games.

Also never forget MS 4 is a double hitting move. It's slow, sure, but you can beat out a ton of armor in the game if they think they can armor out of MS options. Generally a guessing game that you dictate pace on, BUT is still super -. Take risks and make hard reads. MS and parry are tools for reads.

I shouldn't introduce myself into this chaos, but I can never resist. I disagree with A LOT of things Dedlock says (and other posters too, obviously). But I also dislike her d2. Commentators are welcome to their opinion, but for the uses I have for it it's pretty eh. Now, let me explain MY reasoning.

I like to have a reliable d2 anti-air with a strong vertical hitbox. If you are cornered, Sonya's D2 is NOT going to help you with a jump in. Mileena's on the other hand will (and that's my other character). I would honestly argue that Mileena's D2 is surprisingly good. Low profiles a lot of strings, quick startup, good hitbox.

Sonya's d2 is excellent for specific situations, but as a universal d2 I'm not feeling it. In many cases, stand 4 works just as well as (if not better than) her d2.

Once again, I digress BUT I think to some extent that's just a matter of opinion. It's a good d2, but I wouldn't consider it the best by any means. I'd kinda prefer if it were more stubby and didn't go out so far horizontally, honestly. Just my opinion.

Sorry, he gets on my nerves sometimes and I couldn't resist. lol

You guys are two of the best posters on this forum because both of you actually express your opinions and contribute to something without being Debbie Downers à la "D3dl0ck da daaawg BRUUHH"

 

[Dedlock]

Parries are yea guessing game I know but still there are alot of patterns that players repeat with different charachters, Im looking into those to find possible parry gaps in them. I get 43% and 48% out of ex parry atm.

Yeah, her max damage combos arent ideal online, so I always opt for guaranteed lag damage, if that's Thing lol. Once you study your opponents move sets it becomes predictable with rush down characters a huge chunk of the cast.

Also, I'm reasonably certain that the Sonya-Jax match up is pretty skewed in Sonya's favor because of the parry (almost all his pressure except his janky b3 is high. You beat his 11 pressure, you parry his poke string, you parry his f4 (advancing knee), you pretty much lock him out of everything.

Agreed forgot to list him since I haven't played against a Jax in a while, I pretty much can parry everything he throws at me, however, his rocket variation does give me the most trouble but not as bad as other zoners.

The one thing that seriously makes me consider dropping CO sonya is her inability to convert out of the air. Hitting someone in the air w/ a b1 means absolutely nothing except frustrate both players. I'm mad because I can't convert ANYTHING from it, and they just got hit into a soft knockdown. Also god forbid I actually finish the string (normally an accident as b1 hit, 4 misses, then MS cancel doesn't come out and get the full string), then I GET PUNISHED FOR THE ANTI AIR (using b142 into a jumping opponent

Yes Sonya's anti air is pretty limited, this has been discussed before but I've found variable success with F3 and standing three as anti air but still nothing substantial to make a meal off.

Also for guaranteed ex parry 1/3 damage I'd recommend F4 cancel into MS4, its more damaging Than b1,4 and 99% guarantees the combo.

 

[Dedlock]

I like to have a reliable d2 anti-air with a strong vertical hitbox. If you are cornered, Sonya's D2 is NOT going to help you with a jump in. Mileena's on the other hand will (and that's my other character). I would honestly argue that Mileena's D2 is surprisingly good. Low profiles a lot of strings, quick startup, good hitbox.

Didn't see this earlier.

Totally agree, her d2's diagonal hitbox was wonky before the recent patch, it's gotten much better now but you still only use it when the opponent is in a diagonal distance away, Mileena's uppercut is top notch it seems to catch people everywhere.

Also D4 with a leg grab cancel is a good anti air tool.

 

[JerQ_Q]

Also on the parries, I tend to just get a b14-> normal combo after the ex parry 1/3 because the dive kick in there getting an extra lie 3% but getting dropped a bunch is generally not worth it. Tournament nerves are real and nothing is dumber than making a sick read and losing your pressure because you didn't dive kick fast enough.

But if you dont optimise your dmg you will be asking from yourself when you get into the chip range, "how the heck does he have so much life after two or three bnbs...". So you will just give your oppoment more life to work with, what makes matches harder to win. And sonya doesnt anyway have that good chip tools in my opinion.

Thats why you grind your combos online/offline and make them comfortable to use.

And ofc using DK after parry is situational (Life/Oppoments meter). But thats not a reason to not go for it, if you drop it u can go watch mirror and say git gud or git rekt... You dont make sick reads just to get decent conversions.

 

[HugeMcBigLarge]

Her uppercut has total MKX syndrome. It's really good, but there are other tools that beat it, and the ones that don't beat it, it can crush. EXAMPLE you never anti air kotal or kung lao on jump ins. Their jump in tools are just better than everything, and no one can anti air them. However, the rest of the cast w/ average jump ins it will dominate. So it helps with what she doesn't need help on, but doesn't help with the actual air problems.

I'll definitely look into the f4->MS after the ex parry. That's cool.

Also re:

But if you dont optimise your dmg you will be asking from yourself when you get into the chip range, "how the heck does he have so much life after two or three bnbs...". So you will just give your oppoment more life to work with, what makes matches harder to win. And sonya doesnt anyway have that good chip tools in my opinion.

Thats why you grind your combos online/offline and make them comfortable to use.

And ofc using DK after parry is situational (Life/Oppoments meter). But thats not a reason to not go for it, if you drop it u can go watch mirror and say git gud or git rekt... You dont make sick reads just to get decent conversions.

Too strawman. What about the situation where you went for max dmg combo but drop it into a whiffed dive kick, they get up punish you and instead of getting 40% in your favor, you eat a 30% combo. 70% dmg potential swing that you're behind because you went for 2% more dmg. Never leave damage on the table, but this is a question of risk/reward. I'm confident and comfortable with my ability to finish out a match and normally do really well in those clutch situations.

I am NOT happy when I lose because I get punished for a missed combo. Nothing makes me more upset than the combo -> MS4, 12, 21u4(WHIFFING).

If I don't catch that last 21u4 or 2134 or whatever ender I'm doing, it's going to be a full combo punish. I get these are the things to lab and to never drop combos, but in reality it will happen. Tournament nerves plus not sleeping well while travelling, plus partying with the community. You're not generally performing 100% at tournies and adrenaline gets you so far, but you will be fatigued/exhausted.

The max parry dmg might be a long term goal for me w/ Sonya, but is not one of my top priorities atm. Always go for max dmg, but execution problems are real and you should do combos you know you can go for. a 3/4 success rate for an extra 4% dmg isn't worth it to me.

 

[JerQ_Q]

Too strawman. What about the situation where you went for max dmg combo but drop it into a whiffed dive kick, they get up punish you and instead of getting 40% in your favor, you eat a 30% combo. 70% dmg potential swing that you're behind because you went for 2% more dmg. Never leave damage on the table, but this is a question of risk/reward. I'm confident and comfortable with my ability to finish out a match and normally do really well in those clutch situations.

I am NOT happy when I lose because I get punished for a missed combo. Nothing makes me more upset than the combo -> MS4, 12, 21u4(WHIFFING).

If I don't catch that last 21u4 or 2134 or whatever ender I'm doing, it's going to be a full combo punish. I get these are the things to lab and to never drop combos, but in reality it will happen. Tournament nerves plus not sleeping well while travelling, plus partying with the community. You're not generally performing 100% at tournies and adrenaline gets you so far, but you will be fatigued/exhausted.

The max parry dmg might be a long term goal for me w/ Sonya, but is not one of my top priorities atm. Always go for max dmg, but execution problems are real and you should do combos you know you can go for. a 3/4 success rate for an extra 4% dmg isn't worth it to me.

I understand you, ofc dropping a combo is not a nice thing to do but its a point where u need to look at the mirror as I said. But anyway Online I prefer too going for easier combos ofc. And yea my point was that never leave dmg on the table. Easy combos always if oppoment has breaker or I can kill him with less effort.

 

[Ninequads93]

Just something to build upon 111 drone call is safe and leaves you at a good distance

P.s tat meter build tho

 

[HugeMcBigLarge]

When do people use different jump ins? I use ji1 for EVERYTHING. It has amazing horizontal reach and air priority and it's 6 frames and active for 16. The start up and the active frames are just DUMB good on this move. However, I see a bunch of people using ji2 instead, which has a better downward hurt box, but not nearly the horizontal reach or active frames as far as I know.

Is there a compelling reason to use ji2 over ji1 or why is this everywhere?

 

[CanadianBaconX]

So in that SF guide thread it was brought up that you can hit confirm jip xx divekick. When I went to try that out I noticed you literally have FOREVER to do the dive kick after a JI1. To the point that if you wait long enough you can divekick their foot and be safe on block every time. This isn't anything crazy and people probably already know that but, I found it a cool little lazy way to avoid actually hit confirming the jump 1.

In the end hit confirming is obviously the better thing to do but, still thought this was interesting. Also I didn't know which other moves to try this with other than ex slides, maybe I missed something other than Reptile.

 

[Youphemism]

Sorry it's taking so long but I'm about three quarters of the way through testing all the drone call/park drone cancel frame data. I just need to finish off D3, 4, both hits of F4 and D4 and double check everything else then we should be good.

 

[PND i2 Gaug3]

Im new to this character so If this was already known.....
I have only managed to get the s1 to jail twice after b332 Blk+1 once on jax and the other is in the video above.
There is 2 possibilites why this is a thing 1. Block + 1 has random advantage, 2. Block +1 is actually plus 7-8

 

[Youphemism]

Im new to this character so If this was already known.....
I have only managed to get the s1 to jail twice after b332 Blk+1 once on jax and the other is in the video above.
There is 2 possibilites why this is a thing 1. Block + 1 has random advantage, 2. Block +1 is actually plus 7-8

Distance dependent I think. Looks like the first hit of B332 pushes back far enough that block+1 will gain more advantage on block. Try it in the corner and you'll probably find it a lot more inconsistent, you might not even be able to land it at all there.

 

[Tony at Home]

Im new to this character so If this was already known.....
I have only managed to get the s1 to jail twice after b332 Blk+1 once on jax and the other is in the video above.
There is 2 possibilites why this is a thing 1. Block + 1 has random advantage, 2. Block +1 is actually plus 7-8

I had the same issue figuring this out.

Also for Droneya, b332 and 11 into SG shot are about 2 additional plus frames than other options like b14, and 213

Why? I have no clue. Distance maybe.

From further testing it seems to be distance based, blk-1 has a hitbox that has a far side that simply has more + frames, while the close side has less.

So yeah, b332 blk1 is godlike. Grants a b1 they can't poke out from.

I did further testing on 11 after that original post and I don't think it has the same advantage now.